PDA

View Full Version : Angels end inning, ump calls strikeout, inning doesn't end...

Aaron C.
10-12-2005, 10:10 PM
OMG WTF!!!!!!

2 outs, swinging, strike three. Catcher catches it, inning over. Catcher rolls ball to mound and players start to run off the field. Player THEN takes off to first like the catcher dropped the ball on the third strike. UMP calls him out strike three, then reemphasizes the call as the catcher starts to roll the ball out, THEN ump says catcher dropped the ball after player takes off to first base.

I just lost money on this freaking game because some idiot umpire can't stick with his call after the first two times.

I don't really care about the money, but as a home plate umpire, in the mlb playoffs, making the call not once but twice, you must have a teeny tiny nut sack and spine, or are just THAT stupid, to reverse that call.

What in the world was the umpire thinking? I don't understand.

The catcher KNEW he caught the ball. There was NO question. Had he even thought that he didn't catch it, or that there was ANY question about it, he could have simply tagged the batter and it would have been an out.

Batter gets first base, steals second on the strike two call on the next batter, then the batter doubles for the game winning hit.
beezer
10-12-2005, 10:15 PM
sensei say never bet on baseball unless you are Pete Rose.

Seriously, that was terrible. The home plate ump rang him up. WTH??
CWD
10-12-2005, 10:25 PM
UMP calls him out strike three, then reemphasizes the call as the catcher starts to roll the ball out,

To me - this is the worst part of the call- the whole defense saw the called strike and started to trot off the field....NO WAY TO RECOVER. Had it been a catcher error only, the pitcher could have had time to scoop the ball up and throw him out at first.

I hate this for the game - but since I am a Sox fan I will deal with it.
Aaron C.
10-12-2005, 10:27 PM
he didn't just call strike three, he called him OUT.
SlingBlade
10-12-2005, 10:56 PM
he didn't just call strike three, he called him OUT.

Exactly.
jaxdahl
10-12-2005, 11:36 PM
It should be like the NFL - the Ump 'whistled' the play over, thus it is not reviewable/overturnable.
Chris H.
10-12-2005, 11:42 PM
It should be like the NFL - the Ump 'whistled' the play over, thus it is not reviewable/overturnable.

Well its not reviewable, its the MLB ;) Nothing is reviewable. Nothing was reviewed. Just an umpire with no balls.
PokesWin
10-12-2005, 11:52 PM
He didn't signal him out, he just signaled that it was stirke three, therefore allowing him to run on a dropped ball... i don't think the home ump is to blame, that is definitely the third base umps call, especially when the catcher traps the ball like he did... angels did it to themselves, even if he wouldn;t have swung, it would have been ball four.... in any case, i think if anyone is to blame its the third base ump... not home ump
Chris H.
10-12-2005, 11:54 PM
even if he wouldn;t have swung, it would have been ball four....\

But he did swing, thus its a strike. Aren't the rules great??
PokesWin
10-12-2005, 11:56 PM
it was a strike, correct.. and from what the home plate ump saw, it was a drop third strike, allowing the batter to run... its the third base umps job to call him out....
jaxdahl
10-13-2005, 04:54 AM
Here's what ESPN has to say:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2005/columns/story?columnist=caple_jim&id=2189660
Basically the ump wasn't clear enough on his call and the catcher should've tagged the batter.
Football_Goddess
10-13-2005, 06:00 AM
I think Josh Paul learned a valuable lesson, but whether he caught the ball or not, the bigger issue to me is the 'out' call. The ump on the replay looked like he signaled 'strike three' out to the side then gave a fist pump for 'out' just for good measure. This BS about the fist pump being his strike three is a load of crap.

This ranks right up there with Don Denkinger on the list of worst post season calls ever. But yes, Josh Paul could have saved himself and his team a lot of trouble by just tagging the batter. I'm sure he'll do remember that in the future.
osuguy
10-13-2005, 09:02 AM
He didn't signal him out, he just signaled that it was stirke three, therefore allowing him to run on a dropped ball... i don't think the home ump is to blame, that is definitely the third base umps call, especially when the catcher traps the ball like he did... angels did it to themselves, even if he wouldn;t have swung, it would have been ball four.... in any case, i think if anyone is to blame its the third base ump... not home ump

As a former umpire, that is how you signal the dropped, third strike, mostly by sticking your arm out. It is certainly more clear what your are doing when the batter check swings. An ump shouldn't typically say anything on a full swing, dropped third strike (same thing with calling a ball fair or foul - you ONLY say something when the ball is foul!). All players must go until they are sure the third out has been made. If the ump said "OUT", then he is a dip$hit and I retract this whole post :)

The third base umpire would have been the one to call on for an appeal, but that couldn't be done at that moment. The appeal would have to have taken place after the play ended. In this case (don't know if it happened or not), the plate ump should have asked the 3B ump. I have seen the replay though and I am sure the 3B ump would have backed the plate ump. When it doubt, go with the play as it was called.

Or, as we used to say when calling 16-AA legion games in Stillwater (that take 3 hours).........when in doubt, he's OUT!!!!
Slugger926
10-13-2005, 09:16 AM
As a former umpire, that is how you signal the dropped, third strike, mostly by sticking your arm out. It is certainly more clear what your are doing when the batter check swings. An ump shouldn't typically say anything on a full swing, dropped third strike (same thing with calling a ball fair or foul - you ONLY say something when the ball is foul!). All players must go until they are sure the third out has been made. If the ump said "OUT", then he is a dip$hit and I retract this whole post :)

The third base umpire would have been the one to call on for an appeal, but that couldn't be done at that moment. The appeal would have to have taken place after the play ended. In this case (don't know if it happened or not), the plate ump should have asked the 3B ump. I have seen the replay though and I am sure the 3B ump would have backed the plate ump. When it doubt, go with the play as it was called.

Or, as we used to say when calling 16-AA legion games in Stillwater (that take 3 hours).........when in doubt, he's OUT!!!!

Ditto to everything OSUguy said including being an umpire. This is why in HS, college, and a semi-pro team I played on, the catchers always tagged the batter after the 3rd strike before doing anything unless they were throwing out a stealing runner. Error on the catcher costs the Angels the game.

The controversy on this call caused by people not understanding the rules and fundamentals of the game are why I got away from umpiring.
poker
10-13-2005, 10:30 AM
I watched the game, and the Ump blew it. He gave every indication that that was strike three.

I was pretty impressed that Mike S. didn't go off the handle. I'm pretty certain that Josh Paul just came in that last inning as well replacing the regular Molina? Melina? But the ball never did hit the ground, it hit the glove so.......


Go Anahiem Angels.
osuguy
10-13-2005, 10:43 AM
I watched the game, and the Ump blew it. He gave every indication that that was strike three.

I was pretty impressed that Mike S. didn't go off the handle. I'm pretty certain that Josh Paul just came in that last inning as well replacing the regular Molina? Melina? But the ball never did hit the ground, it hit the glove so.......


Go Anahiem Angels.

You are right, he DID give every indication that it was strike three, but not that the batter/runner was out!

I know I wouldn't want big Mike running out to chat with me about anything either! He did well I thought.

I think we are just going to have two sides to this thing....one, like mine, from an umpire's point of view and the other from the batter/runner perspective. The ump could have done better - I will concede that point.
osuguy
10-13-2005, 10:44 AM
And........if I were Scoscia, I would have screamed and argued until I got tossed. I feel I would have owed it to my players :)
Aaron C.
10-13-2005, 09:22 PM
You are right, he DID give every indication that it was strike three, but not that the batter/runner was out!

I know I wouldn't want big Mike running out to chat with me about anything either! He did well I thought.

I think we are just going to have two sides to this thing....one, like mine, from an umpire's point of view and the other from the batter/runner perspective. The ump could have done better - I will concede that point.

No no no. He DID give every indication that the batter/runner was out. As Goddess said:

The ump on the replay looked like he signaled 'strike three' out to the side then gave a fist pump for 'out' just for good measure. This BS about the fist pump being his strike three is a load of crap.


That IS what happened. I watched the replay over and over and over again (tivo).

I too have umpired umpteen high school baseball games and have been behind the plate and made mistakes but even from "an umpire's point of view" (not that I qualify really) it was a horrendous call and unacceptable.
osuguy
10-14-2005, 07:53 AM
No no no. He DID give every indication that the batter/runner was out. As Goddess said:


That IS what happened. I watched the replay over and over and over again (tivo).

I too have umpired umpteen high school baseball games and have been behind the plate and made mistakes but even from "an umpire's point of view" (not that I qualify really) it was a horrendous call and unacceptable.
Coop & Goddess ---- I saw the replay again last night --- I guess this is the first time the replay I saw went further.....all the way to the fist pump. (Sorry Goddess, I missed the part of your post about the fist pump).

I take back what I said....he did screw up. If had just stuck his arm out, I would have felt he did nothing wrong. By pumping the fist like you would on a called strike, that does signal he is out. My bad. Dude shouldnt' work the plate in any more post season games.

Thanks for clarifying and thank goodness I saw one more replay :)
H-Town Poke
10-14-2005, 09:25 AM
He pumped his fist so the batter should have been out, no question. The ump screwed up. Oh well.

Go Sox!
Chris H.
10-14-2005, 09:29 AM
Oh but didn't you know the fist pump indicated strike three not out :rolleyes:

Dude needs to find a pair, fast!
HolyGuacamole
10-14-2005, 10:29 AM
In the postgame press conference, the umpire said that the "fist pump" was his normal way of signaling a strike 3.

But when I was watching Pardon the Interruption yesterday, they showed an almost identical play from the 6th or 7th inning where the ball did hit the dirt. The ump waved his arm, just like he did in the 9th, but did not do the fist pump until the catcher tagged the runner. It was very obvious that in the 6th inning, the "fist pump" he did was signalling that the runner was out, not strike 3.