Sonicsgate

[mrorange]

I guess I missed this until now, but I found this documentary VERY interesting

http://sonicsgate.org/movie

It was fairly well put-together. Incredibly biased, but so am I, so I guess we balance each other out.

A few points

-They want to make Clay Bennett look like the bad guy, or the state legislature, or the City. The problem is, that only a small faction of residents wanted the team to stay. The I-90 proposition is what killed the team. Not enough people cared anymore

-People often choose the most recent event to the ending to place the blame (i.e. the pick a quarterback threw at the end of a game) although there were many factors to place blame leading up to that event. In the documentary's case, they blame the settlement

-I think their arrogance really killed them. They continually put down Oklahoma City as well as Clay Bennett and his appearance. A writer in the documentary said Clay was "a loser living off his wife's money." Their personal attacks were endless. OKC came into Seattle with their pride and arrogance and used a phenomenal legal team to make them look like buffoons.

-They also want to blame Howard Schultz. Well, he was losing money. He is a moron to pretend that he didn't know that PBC wanted to move the team to OKC. But, people weren't showing up to support the team, and that's why he was losing money. People also weren't lobbying for arena expansion.

-Blaming the NBA is fruitless as well. This is how the NBA works. The NBA generates revenue and interest in the city and tax dollars, and in return, you help finance their home. They say that the NBA is going after 2nd and 3rd tier cities that are willing to put up the funds to pay for new arenas. Last I checked, cities like New York and Dallas (and every other NBA city in the country) were paying from taxpayer dollars to improve or build new facilities.

In the end, I think a small faction of radical fans got all bothered by the team leaving, although they had done nothing prior to that point to keep them there. The majority of the public just wasn't interested, and all their efforts were too little, too late. I visited Seattle in Summer 2008. Even at Key Arena, I asked people what they thought about the move. 90% didn't care, and the other 10% had no idea about the issues and just had a philosophical hatred of OKC because we were a low-class oil town.

I also thought it was interesting that Nick Collison was the only current Thunder player who was interviewed. I still think it's in his best interest to lay low when it comes to praising Seattle.

[OrangeAggie]

Boo hoo. We have your team now, and thanks to your many losing seasons we've put together one of the best young teams in the NBA and are poised for a playoff season. Thanks Sonics fans.

[Sonicsgate]

Thank you for taking the time to watch our movie. We disagree with your point of view. What is most surprising is your inaccurate "quotes" from the film and the comment about Nick Collison. Why should Nick Lay low? He was simply being nice towards a city that supported him. Much more than the fans in OKC are doing for the guy. Is the city envy so large that you can not stand someone who plays for the Blunder say anything nice about Seattle? The lack of open mindedness is astounding but not surprising. From your comments it seems like your fan experience is just business, if so then it is empty and meaningless. What happened in Seattle should not be acceptable to any fan. Perhaps in a few years you might be in the same position. Remember you only upgraded the Ford center. Similar to the upgrade of the Key arena in '96. Your Claymate has a track record of trying to break leases and civic deception. You should take notice.

[Binman4OSU]

Thank you for taking the time to watch our movie. We disagree with your point of view. What is most surprising is your inaccurate "quotes" from the film and the comment about Nick Collison. Why should Nick Lay low? He was simply being nice towards a city that supported him. Much more than the fans in OKC are doing for the guy. Is the city envy so large that you can not stand someone who plays for the Blunder say anything nice about Seattle? The lack of open mindedness is astounding but not surprising. From your comments it seems like your fan experience is just business, if so then it is empty and meaningless. What happened in Seattle should not be acceptable to any fan. Perhaps in a few years you might be in the same position. Remember you only upgraded the Ford center. Similar to the upgrade of the Key arena in '96. Your Claymate has a track record of trying to break leases and civic deception. You should take notice.


I would like to be the first to thank you for showing your bias in this situation so clearly in your first post. I may have been inclined to see the film and go into it with an open mind. I have never really supported a position in the OKC vs Seattle "issue" (not too many really cared on either side in my eyes). However, your open bias would lead me to beleive that I wouldn't see a documentry about this issue.

A documentry is a visual expression that is based on the attempt to document reality......from your words alone I can see that the film in no way wanted to document reality. There are always two very credible sides to each story in these matter....and your own words show that you have nothing but distaste for 1 side.

[Roman Craig]

The Sonics were leaving Seattle. Everyone knew it. Even you. If not OKC, it would have been Kansas City, St. Louis, Las Vegas, Buffalo or some other city. Clay Bennett bought them first so he and Okc is your scapegoat. The Sonics didn't leave because Bennett bought them, Bennett bought them because they were leaving.

These by the way are facts not opinions. Sorry if that doesn't fit your agenda.

By the way, Seattle is a lovely city and will get a team again. Don't sweat it.

[OrangeAggie]

Thank you for taking the time to watch our movie. We disagree with your point of view. What is most surprising is your inaccurate "quotes" from the film and the comment about Nick Collison. Why should Nick Lay low? He was simply being nice towards a city that supported him. Much more than the fans in OKC are doing for the guy. Is the city envy so large that you can not stand someone who plays for the Blunder say anything nice about Seattle? The lack of open mindedness is astounding but not surprising. From your comments it seems like your fan experience is just business, if so then it is empty and meaningless. What happened in Seattle should not be acceptable to any fan. Perhaps in a few years you might be in the same position. Remember you only upgraded the Ford center. Similar to the upgrade of the Key arena in '96. Your Claymate has a track record of trying to break leases and civic deception. You should take notice.


Are you going to cry? Oklahoma City residents and fans couldn't give two sh*ts about Seattle, and nobody cares about the comment by Nick Collison, it was news for like a day and was obviously blown out of proportion. Get over it.

Quick question, what was Seattle's average attendance the season before they moved to OKC?

[Shooter McGavin]

Thank you for taking the time to watch our movie. We disagree with your point of view. What is most surprising is your inaccurate "quotes" from the film and the comment about Nick Collison. Why should Nick Lay low? He was simply being nice towards a city that supported him. Much more than the fans in OKC are doing for the guy. Is the city envy so large that you can not stand someone who plays for the Blunder say anything nice about Seattle? The lack of open mindedness is astounding but not surprising. From your comments it seems like your fan experience is just business, if so then it is empty and meaningless. What happened in Seattle should not be acceptable to any fan. Perhaps in a few years you might be in the same position. Remember you only upgraded the Ford center. Similar to the upgrade of the Key arena in '96. Your Claymate has a track record of trying to break leases and civic deception. You should take notice.

Wow, what a whiny post... The fact is, the majority of folks in Seattle did not care enough to keep a team there, and Shultz couldn't wait to sell it to the first person who came along, knowing that the team wouldn't stay in Seattle. Seattle, the local leadership, the lack of fan support and the inaction of the Washington legislature killed the Sonics. OKC just picked up the remains, and as a result, the entire organization is much stronger and has a much brighter future. OKC revived a dying franchise...

[mrorange]

Thank you for taking the time to watch our movie. We disagree with your point of view. What is most surprising is your inaccurate "quotes" from the film and the comment about Nick Collison. Why should Nick Lay low? He was simply being nice towards a city that supported him. Much more than the fans in OKC are doing for the guy. Is the city envy so large that you can not stand someone who plays for the Blunder say anything nice about Seattle? The lack of open mindedness is astounding but not surprising. From your comments it seems like your fan experience is just business, if so then it is empty and meaningless. What happened in Seattle should not be acceptable to any fan. Perhaps in a few years you might be in the same position. Remember you only upgraded the Ford center. Similar to the upgrade of the Key arena in '96. Your Claymate has a track record of trying to break leases and civic deception. You should take notice.

Wow. I got a response, even though I didn't direct it to Sonicsgate. Cool.

Anyway, the quote was a paraphrase. Basically, you guys tried to portray Clay Bennett as some country bumpkin and the rest of Oklahoma City as a second-tier city. You even pointed out his haircut. Isn't that a personal attack? I would think you would show some respect for the guy who came in and made your city government look stupid. What does it say about you that such a "low-life" from the sticks flat out beat you? Your city attorney sounded like a total joke cross examining Bennett. I'm surprised he wasn't embarrassed to take part in the documentary. On the other hand, the Bennett legal team just slapped the City all over the place.

Also, I have no problem with Nick saying positive remarks about Seattle. It's the fact that he keeps on speaking out AGAINST Oklahoma City that has people bothered. We know he didn't agree with the move, and that's ok. Time to move on. For the record, Jim Traber, the sports personality from OKC responsible for going off on Collison earlier this summer, is not an especially well-respected person on this board.

I have absolutely no envy for Seattle. I have visited, and while it is a nice place, I love Oklahoma. Plus, we have a professional sports franchise with a league championship. You don't :D

And, by the way, I love the Thunder. We were on the last day of ticket selection, yet we chose 7 seats; one set of 3 and two sets of 2 just so our entire family could go to the games. Thankfully this year we were able to consolidate.

Again, I know you want to blame us, but we were willing to do what every other NBA city has done, and that is support the team through arena upgrades. You can get mad at the NBA and David Stern and Clay Bennett and OKC all you want, but just look around the City and know that YOU killed the Sonics when you refused to support them. The entire professional world changed around you, and you stuck your head in the sand.

Oklahoma City just approved 750 million dollars in public upgrades including a new convention center. I have no doubt we could raise funds for a new arena, when necessary. Schultz, Stern, and Bennett would never have been in the positions they were if you had supported them CITY-wide, not just a fanatical group of Save our Sonics supporters.

Oh, and cut it with the "Blunder" stuff. You know what losers do when they can't win the fight? They undercut and take cheap shots, which is exactly what you're doing. You're the kid who hits reset on the Nintendo when he can't beat his brother at Mario Kart.

Oh, and in case you haven't noticed, the product on the court is really speaking for itself. I sure enjoyed that winning streak. Thanks for enduring those crummy seasons so we could get Kevin Durant and other lottery picks.

[mrorange]

Also, I wanted to compliment you again for the documentary. Like I said, it was extremely well put-together and professional. You guys had a lot of interesting interviews and footage. A more balanced piece would have at least somewhat explained the other side, but I don't think you guys intended it that way, which is fine.

My Sonicsgate would have been simple. I would have gotten footage of everyone responsible for the Sonics leaving by placing a camera atop the Needle or at the Fish Market, because at the end of the day the citizens were to blame. The legislature wasn't pushing anything through because that's not what the people wanted. But, you need someone to blame, so keep on hating Clay Bennett.

[Sonicsgate]

Wanting Sonics fans to give an unbiased account of what happened is impossible. It is like asking a r@pe victim to make sure both side of the story were told. There is no way we deserved this, regardless of the economics or what ifs. One thing you need to understand that this movie is 100% facts. Even the comical parts about Clay having a Buzz cut and using his wife’s money. Besides it was our interviewees who said Clay was pathetic looking, not the film makers. The Fimmakers interview would be different.

There is a Seattle flavor to our film and for a guy who took our team away the comments on his Buzz cut are being very kind. This film was not intended to poke fun of the entire OK City. We actually have grown very fond of the good folks of OKC. You guys/gals are well spoken and come across as very intelligent. I wish our city passed the funding like yours did. Lets be friends because we are all NBA FANS. This film is a comment on the players involved in stealing the team. Howard, Clay, Seattle leaders and residents included. The biggest issue we have is with you painting our film as some bash piece of OKC. This is not the case and the essence of our disagreement. In the film we did not comment on your educational system or the status as one of the worst places to live. That was not our goal; it was to present an entertaining movie that presented the facts in a manner that is digestible to the everyday fan. The lack of reference to the people and fans in OKC is intentional.

I challenge OKC to make your own film about getting your new team. I am sure it will be very biased. Two sides to every story is correct but you can not ignore facts. Would another person have done the same thing as Clay? Maybe, and maybe not. We will never know. All we know is that we had 2 years left on a lease and an owner swearing up and down he is committed to keeping the team in Seattle. Seattle is always late to the ballgame for Arena funding and Clay knew that and took advantage. Great you have a team but what did it take to get that team? The NBA is only alienating the fans who stay loyal through thick and thin. The Key Arena averaged 16,000 seats per game(94% sold out) before Clay purchased the team. I believe we averaged about 13,000 fans(80% full) the final year after Clay alienated the entire city. ESPN STATS here for you non believers (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/attendance?year=2008). When you sell out 34,000 seats to your Blunder then you can talk.. Until then your just NBA noobs. I hope you guys can stomach a rebuilding team when Durnat leaves.

Want more FACTS? here is a sample of some of the pee on our legs and tell us its raining tactics that Clay had. Clay's Deceptive advertising is here (http://www.krclassaction.com/Portals/12/documents/SonicsRenewalBrochureBrothersonColorCopy.pdf):

Source: http://www.krclassaction.com/Default.aspx?Tabid=2301

This is a current legal case set for trial later this month. Seattle Season Ticket holder’s vs PBC.

Look we are all Fans:you should take notice of what happened; maybe in 10 years you can avoid the same thing from happening.

Thanks for the kind words about the film, it is appreciated...

[t1m0thy]

If your movie is anything like your posts here, then it isn't worth anyone watching. You talk about how we're all NBA fans, and that you're only mad at Clay and the others involved in choosing to move HIS team from a city that refused to do the things necessary to keep it there to a city that has proved it will. Then you start calling names like a child.



P.S. Condescending tones work best when you know the difference between "your" and "you're."

[King Poke]

The Key Arena averaged 16,000 seats per game(94% sold out) before Clay purchased the team. I believe we averaged about 13,000 fans(80% full) the final year after Clay alienated the entire city. When you sell out 34,000 seats to your Blunder then you can talk. Until then your just NBA noobs.


Maybe I missed something, but where did the 34,000 come from?

[Sonicsgate]

Remember we have a guy named Steve Ballmer (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nba/2004264013_sonics06m.html) who offered to buy a NBA team pay for 150 million in renovations and cover the cost overruns. This was while the Sonics were in Seattle. Tell me again how this team was doomed to move?

The SuperSonics set NBA records for single-game playoff attendance in 1978 and 1980 with crowds of 39,457 and 40,172 respectively source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdome) . This is not the largest ever attendance but it is up there...

Tim0thy
after all the information I presented your only rebuttal is a grammar error? I hope you can still watch the film. At the very least please listen (http://www.sonicsgate.org/music/) to the dope soundtrack. All Seattle area musicians who donated their music to the film because they loved the Sonics. You can listen to the entire soundtrack (http://www.sonicsgate.org/music/) for FREE. The Sonics are not some 'Whataburger' you can pick up and move when business is not good. This team was part of the fabric of our community, hence the outpouring of musical talent/support for Sonicsgate. It would be like if Seattle bought the rights to Gene Autry (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCqD6iFUXoY&feature=related) and moved him to Seattle. Sure we might have the cowboy but he is still OKC for life.

I hope you can understand it is only friendly banter when I call you a NBA noob. Perhaps Padawan (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=padawan) is more your style...

Sports Illustrated (http://www.sonicsgate.org/SI/) liked our movie, so should you.

[mrorange]

The NBA is only alienating the fans who stay loyal through thick and thin.

Loyalty to the NBA goes beyond following the team and going to games; it is also providing public support for modern arena construction. I visited KeyArena in Summer 2008. I was very surprised at how small it is.

Here's the issue: Schultz was losing money because KeyArena didn't have enough seats to generate modern NBA revenue. Since its construction, NBA player salaries had skyrocketed and there simply weren't enough seats to sell.

A new arena needed to be built, or the Key needed a massive overhaul and expansion. Part of the problem was that the Sonics were last in line to get a new stadium in Seattle. Taxpayers weren't even willing to put up 1/4 of what they had put into either Quest or Safeco.

Schultz couldn't get it done, and he was losing money, so he sold the team to the highest bidder (I will agree that Clay evidently WAY overpaid)

The bidder was from OKC. I don't think there was any way that Bennett could have put full effort into getting an arena deal done because EVERYONE knew that he wanted the team in OKC. But, if Schultz couldn't get an arena deal done, why could an outsider like Bennett?

Just like they had before, the lawmakers couldn't get enough steam to get a deal done, which I think was a reflection of the apathy of Seattle overall.

Clay moved the team to OKC. Clearly, Seattle wanted to hold him to the lease and buy more time and hope to bleed the team, but all that would create was ill-will with the NBA and prolong a terribly broken relationship between the team and City. Why didn't the Seattle group that wanted to buy the team back jump up sooner? Why let it go to PBC in the first place?

You thought you could just sit back and that long-time tradition would prevent the Sonics from facing the same pressures that every team-city relationship has. Oklahoma City jumped up and voted to improve the Ford Center to NBA standards. It was clear that if we hadn't voted to become "a big league city" that the team would be shopped around elsewhere.

Every other NBA city has pledged major support time and time again to improve their facilities. The NBA will indiscriminately leave any city that refuses to support the team, regardless of tradition.

Again, I know it's hard to blame yourself, but the public interest for a new arena just wasn't there, so it wasn't a priority for the lawmakers. You can blame Clay or PBC or Schultz or Stern or Nickels or anyone you want, but you need to look in the collective Seattle member and see that YOU killed the Sonics when you refused support for a new arena.

And, please, cut it with the personal stuff and quit calling them the Blunder. I have complimented your documentary many times, so show some respect and call them by their rightful name, lest you appear rather childish.

Oh, and if you don't mind me asking, where did the funding for Sonicsgate come from?

[Sonicsgate]

Seattle's financial loyalty runs deep as represented by our 2 other .5 billion dollar stadiums.

(bell rings) time for class:The amount of seats was not the issue. You have about 1,000 more seats than the Key arena, maybe 4 more suites. You do have a better scoreboard, I will give you that. The issue is more complex as we described in the film. A number of other facts that seem to have slipped your selective memory are the main reason the Sonics left. The restaurants, parking fees, government subsidies and the basic lease agreement hurt the revenue stream and made the 'businessmen cranky'. The footprint is 1/2 the size of other arenas, meaning no massive team shop or silly booths to waste your money on. You really need to brush up on your facts, with as many posts as you have I expect more from a fellow blogger.

Ballmer is not an idiot and was not going to pay 100 million more than the team was worth. However, Clay was willing to overpay(basically to move). There were other local offers but Clay out bid them. Rather Aubry did.

I think you assume that Seattle could not support the Sonics. I think 41 years is proof of that. Lets agree: The city of Seattle is very fair weather and contributed significantly to the loss of the Sonics. But you seem to insist is it 'our' fault and should 'blame ourselves'. We fought pretty dam hard to save the team. You need to define "our fault" b/c we are the fans, and the fans were there. No worries, I am sure we could debate this issue forever and you still would not agree no matter how many facts I place in front of you.

I retain the right to call your team the Blunder and or the Zombie Sonics.

Everyone who helped and worked on Sonicsgate contributed their own time and money to the project. This film was made by local Sonic fans who work in the film industry. We were able to get lots of donations from other fans. Because of that we will have Sonicsgate on YOU TUBE and it will be closed captioned for the hearing impaired. Then it will then be translated into French and Polish and many other languages. Vive les Sonics!!

[OSUCherokee]

Does he call the team "Blunder" in the film? Sounds pretty childish. Since we are now using fun names. How about we refer to Seattle's former team as the Seattle sub par Sonics? ;) eh... I tried.

This team is nothing like the one Seattle lost. The management has made some of the best moves in the NBA in getting talent and funding. I've really been impressed and haven't had a single reason to complain at this point. Every team that plays against the Thunder only has positive things to say about the team and how hard they play and how bright their future is. It was cool hearing Chris Paul talk so fondly on his time spent in OKC. Apparently, the other day he went driving around to see his old rental house and Tweeted about how he appreciated his time here a ton. I honestly believe that the Thunder have a really good shot to be playoff bound this year, next year for sure.

At least Seattle is still the home of Dr. Evil and his lair atop the Starbucks needle thingy. Which coincidentally I saw rust away and fall down on that show, "Life After Humans".

[Sonicsgate]

at the rate we are going. the space needle might just rust away. our leaders are dog doo.

We don't call the team Blunder in the movie. but there is a great scene where they unveil the new jerseys. its a real WTF moment. for you a great moment, for us a nightmare.

[Binman4OSU]

at the rate we are going. the space needle might just rust away. our leaders are dog doo.

We don't call the team Blunder in the movie. but there is a great scene where they unveil the new jerseys. its a real WTF moment. for you a great moment, for us a nightmare.

I think it was a real WTF moment for us when the unveiled OKC's jerseys for us....I remember the first thing that went through my head was.

WTF??? those are our colors...are you serious???.

There was much debate and griping about the jerseys in the first weeks LOL

[mrorange]

Basically you guys thought you could keep an NBA team using your antique business model and you realized you can't. When I say blame Seattle, I mean collective Seattle. The 70% that voted for I-90. Schultz had to sell, he was losing money. Bennett had to move, he was losing money. City leaders had to settle, they were losing a lawsuit. Legislators had to can new arena plans because the majority of Seattle (not members of SOS or Sonicsgate filmmakers) didnt care to keep them around.

"Clay, you're so ridiculous for wanting a 500 million dollar arena!!"

"Well, uber-sophisticated metropolis of billionaires, you shelled it out for baseball and football.

By the way, I didn't like the unis or colors at first but they have really grown on me.

It also appears most of the players really enjoy living and playing here.

[Orange Daddy]

http://www.treeandleafclothing.com/images/shirts/Daily_Thunder_-_Zombie_Sonics!_lg.jpg

[Binman4OSU]

I do know how Seattle could get their NBA team back.......Trade us the Seahawks for them.....

I bet 90%+ of Oklahomans would trade the Thunder for an NFL team any day.

Rejoice Seattle you have the MLB and the NFL

[GodsPeace]

I cannot begrudge the sincere Sonics fan being upset to lose them.

Everything stated on here shows that there are more players responsible for the Sonics moving than Clay Bennett. So, I don't see the need to continue to beat this drum. It is a lot of crying about something that will not change, and seems to be a whole lot of too little too late.

The Thunder are in OKC for the foreseabe future. Seattle may well get a team, but I say either get on board with the Thunder or get on down the road.

I am not trying to be mean. I am trying to figure out what is to be accomplished at this point? Smear Clay Bennett. BTW, he did clown Seattle Government pretty badly. Pretty clever for a country bumpkin.

I find it funny that when Bennett and crew bought the Sonics IMMEDIATELY the question was WHEN the Sonics would move. Can it be that the old owner and city were the ONLY ones in America that didn't know they were coming to OKC?

Silly.

Sorry Seattle fans, you were let down, but I love the Thunder!

[t1m0thy]

Tim0thy
after all the information I presented your only rebuttal is a grammar error?

I can give you several more grammatical errors if you'd like, or I could point out that the "deceptive advertising" clearly states that they are committed to keeping the sonics in the region if they raise the support needed.

If I tell you I will eat a sandwich if you give me a pepsi, but you do not give me a pepsi, I am not obliged to eat a sandwich. It does not make me a liar, it is not deceptive advertising. It means you didn't hold up your end of the bargain, and have no room to bitch about it later.

[Sonicsgate]

I think we are all on the same page with regards to how badly Seattle blew it. Clay could have been more honest in his dealings with Seattle. Trust me, the Sonics fans (admit it it or not) would LOVE a guy like Clay getting a team for us. We(fans) hold out hope that Steve Ballmer is serious about getting a team back to Seattle. I fear it might take a while given our political situation. But we are trying. Sonics fans votes were critical in getting the old Mayor out of office.

I wish I could enjoy NFL or MLB as much but I just love basketball too much. Don't even get me started on Soccer. We bleed green and gold, our numbers may be few but we will never give up trying to Save our Sonics.

Thank you for clarifying who is to blame. As a fan it is really hard to hear that it was 'our' fault. Quid pro quo I will call them the Thunder in this blog.

The white thunder jerseys are not too bad. I wonder if they used orange b/c of OSU? They remind me of the Flint Tropics jerseys (http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/extras/green_room/jackiemoon.jpg)

I do hope you guys enjoy your team and Durantula. I hope for the day when the Sonics are no longer attached to the Thunder and we get to play each other in an epic showdown.

(seahawks for thunder trade is fine by me)

T1mOthy,
You might be correct but your intention was to never eat the sandwich in the first place. And I can prove it. You might know language arts but I know facts. How do you like those sandwiches?

[t1m0thy]

I may not have intended to eat the sandwich, but had you given me the pepsi I would have been forced to do so.

On another note, I would never ever ever trade the Thunder for the Seahawks!

On yet another note, does anyone remember last year when OSU played Washington St. in Seattle and one of the fans had a sign that said "We've come for the Mariners?" :)

PS Anyone who knows if that question mark after "Mariners" belongs inside or outside the closing quotation mark please feel free to inform me. I tried outside, but it looked funny.

[OSUCherokee]

I may not have intended to eat the sandwich, but had you given me the pepsi I would have been forced to do so.

On another note, I would never ever ever trade the Thunder for the Seahawks!

On yet another note, does anyone remember last year when OSU played Washington St. in Seattle and one of the fans had a sign that said "We've come for the Mariners?" :)

PS Anyone who knows if that question mark after "Mariners" belongs inside or outside the closing quotation mark please feel free to inform me. I tried outside, but it looked funny.


It's technically supposed to be outside the quotes. The statement being made by the person you quoted was not a question, so it should have a period after it and a question mark outside the quote.

"We've come for the Mariners."?

As for the next team we get from Seattle. I would love to have the Mariners. And Ken Griffey Jr. from 1994. :D

[bleedorange]

Blunder? Claymate?

I don't think I'll see your movie, but you do have my respect. Making a movie is quite an accomplishment for a 10-year old.

[2wheelPoke83]

I like the uni's.:confused:

http://sportige.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/picimg_kevin_durant_of_5944.jpg

[PokealypseNow]

I retain the right to call your team the Blunder and or the Zombie Sonics.

Then I guess I'll retain the right to call you, as personally as a can, a complete and utter douchebag.

And h*ll, I don't even follow the NBA.

Keep on giving this guy the business, mrorange. He's so delusional about his precious little Sonics that he can't understand the reality of the situation.

[mrorange]

Thank you for clarifying who is to blame. As a fan it is really hard to hear that it was 'our' fault. Quid pro quo I will call them the Thunder in this blog.


It's not your fault personally, it's the collective Seattle apathy toward the NBA. Why couldn't you guys get that deal done this year and pick up $30 million? Because no one cares! I know you care, and the rest of SOS fanaticals care, but the majority of Seattle (the 70% that voted for I-90) just flat out don't care. OKC cared. That's why we came out and voted to improve the facilities and get a team here.

Most Sonics fans took them for granted while they were there. On top of that, losses loom larger than gains and they became much more valuable to you guys once you heard they were leaving.

By the way, OKC Thunder vs. Seattle Sonics pt. II would make a great rivalry. If you guys would get an arena deal done, of course. What's funny is that two NBA franchises would share the same history. Could get awkward :D

[Sonicsgate]

with shared history I guess we would tie every time.

The I-91 vote was in 2006. Basically it said: if the city of Seattle provided millions in funding for an arena that it shall receive a small return on investment equal to or greater than a treasury bill. I-91 was a political bomb planted by the SEIU(and their action arm Citizens for Better Things founded by Chris Van Dyke, a guy in our film) Trying to convince people to think that we say NO to professional sports is incorrect. On some levels it was a backlash from the recent billion dollars we just spent to the average liberal voter from Seattle it is a slam dunk affirmative vote, "Yes I would like a return on my investment". It was clever and it worked. Not only did it freak out the NBA but gave Clay a few more reasons to lie about the situation (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.mtv.com/onair/jersey_shore/photos/cast/mike_0644.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.mtv.com/photos/jersey-shore-cast/1626282/4400600/photo.jhtml&usg=__FFBJz_N1ifBt_fGJwWMOMgmu3hU=&h=570&w=380&sz=46&hl=en&start=40&sig2=YCXBQ7vnPZbFqUqbHmG-rg&um=1&tbnid=9q2r_Zu-XUyaoM:&tbnh=134&tbnw=89&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dthe%2Bsituation%26ndsp%3D21%26hl%3Den %26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN%26start%3D21%26um%3D1&ei=5Y9GS6m6MpKyswO3o4X2Dw) in Seattle.

In the movie Sonicsgate (http://www.sonicsgate.org/movie/) Chris Van Dyke says "this is a national issue fought locally". Meaning the SEIU (http://www.seiu.org/) was helping sandbag public funding for an arena with this initiative. They funded I-91's campaign. This is why as a fan you should pay attention and watch Sonicsgate (http://www.sonicsgate.org/).

Don't take it from me: listen to what the press (http://www.sonicsgate.org/press/) has to say about the film made by an army age 10.

[Minarets]

It's not your fault personally, it's the collective Seattle apathy toward the NBA. Why couldn't you guys get that deal done this year and pick up $30 million? Because no one cares! I know you care, and the rest of SOS fanaticals care, but the majority of Seattle (the 70% that voted for I-90) just flat out don't care. OKC cared. That's why we came out and voted to improve the facilities and get a team here.

Most Sonics fans took them for granted while they were there. On top of that, losses loom larger than gains and they became much more valuable to you guys once you heard they were leaving.

By the way, OKC Thunder vs. Seattle Sonics pt. II would make a great rivalry. If you guys would get an arena deal done, of course. What's funny is that two NBA franchises would share the same history. Could get awkward :D

I thought the Sonics Colors and History were left in Seattle, similar to the Cleveland -> Baltimore move, then the expansion Cleveland in the NFL?

[HanesOnU]

I thought the Sonics Colors and History were left in Seattle, similar to the Cleveland -> Baltimore move, then the expansion Cleveland in the NFL?
That is correct.

As for sonicsgate... please quit saying you are trying to be "friends" then immediately take shots at OKC. You've done it in almost every post and no one is fooled.

[mrorange]

I thought the Sonics Colors and History were left in Seattle, similar to the Cleveland -> Baltimore move, then the expansion Cleveland in the NFL?

Sonics history diverges with the Thunder. The Thunder have one NBA championship, and there are duplicates of all banners and trophies so that one can be displayed at each facility. I'm not sure who has the originals or if we will see banners boosted at the Ford Center any time. This was explained in the first press conference following the settlement.

Basically, the deal was set up so that Clay got his money's worth in buying an existing franchise, but Seattle could also get another team and rename them the Sonics and pick back up, of course, if they could get an arena deal.

[NewMexPoke84]

I was hoping they would be called The Oklahoma City Super Sonics. Longest name in pro sports.

[OrangeAlert]

The Sonics are not some 'Whataburger' you can pick up and move when business is not good. This team was part of the fabric of our community,

And yet....they did pick up and move. Hmmm.

[GodsPeace]

And yet....they did pick up and move. Hmmm.

Whataburger is ridiculously slow too. I would say we moved more at "Sonic" speed.:D

[mrorange]

with shared history I guess we would tie every time.

The I-91 vote was in 2006. Basically it said: if the city of Seattle provided millions in funding for an arena that it shall receive a small return on investment equal to or greater than a treasury bill. I-91 was a political bomb planted by the SEIU(and their action arm Citizens for Better Things founded by Chris Van Dyke, a guy in our film) Trying to convince people to think that we say NO to professional sports is incorrect. On some levels it was a backlash from the recent billion dollars we just spent to the average liberal voter from Seattle it is a slam dunk affirmative vote, "Yes I would like a return on my investment". It was clever and it worked. Not only did it freak out the NBA but gave Clay a few more reasons to lie about the situation (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.mtv.com/onair/jersey_shore/photos/cast/mike_0644.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.mtv.com/photos/jersey-shore-cast/1626282/4400600/photo.jhtml&usg=__FFBJz_N1ifBt_fGJwWMOMgmu3hU=&h=570&w=380&sz=46&hl=en&start=40&sig2=YCXBQ7vnPZbFqUqbHmG-rg&um=1&tbnid=9q2r_Zu-XUyaoM:&tbnh=134&tbnw=89&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dthe%2Bsituation%26ndsp%3D21%26hl%3Den %26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN%26start%3D21%26um%3D1&ei=5Y9GS6m6MpKyswO3o4X2Dw) in Seattle.

In the movie Sonicsgate (http://www.sonicsgate.org/movie/) Chris Van Dyke says "this is a national issue fought locally". Meaning the SEIU (http://www.seiu.org/) was helping sandbag public funding for an arena with this initiative. They funded I-91's campaign. This is why as a fan you should pay attention and watch Sonicsgate (http://www.sonicsgate.org/).

Don't take it from me: listen to what the press (http://www.sonicsgate.org/press/) has to say about the film made by an army age 10.

So the ultra sophisticated people of Seattle got "duped" twice? (by Clay and SEIU?) For being such cultural elitists, you sure do get tricked easily.

[OrangeAlert]

Just got back from the Thunder game...what a fun time! I wish every city could experience NBA level basketball, but I know that it's not really for everyone. Sonicsgate, you would have had a good time too, watching KD go for 40. Remember that guy? Wow.

[monkey]

Whataburger is ridiculously slow too. I would say we moved more at "Sonic" speed.:D

Oh, that's bad, that's very bad. :D

Regardless of how those in Seattle feel about OKC, I am very glad this team is in OKC right now. It's too bad it was after I left the state, but it is still fun to follow them.

[Sonicsgate]

"Talking to you is like playing cards with my brothers kids"

[HanesOnU]

"Talking to you is like playing cards with my brothers kids"
I'm sure we'd have more success getting through to a 5 year old throwing a fit...

[OSUCherokee]

I forgot to mention this before, but I find it very cliche these days to use the word "gate" on everything considered a scandal. It's way overused.

A better, more mature title of a documentary like this would be something like, "Sonicless in Seattle: How Cities Lose Teams"

I dunno, something along those lines.

[Binman4OSU]

I was hoping they would Keep the Supersonics name too!.

Can you Imagine OKC based Sonic as the sponser!. Where else could you get an Oklahoma City Super Sonic Cheesburger deal???

[monkey]

I was hoping they would Keep the Supersonics name too!.

Can you Imagine OKC based Sonic as the sponser!. Where else could you get an Oklahoma City Super Sonic Cheesburger deal???

I thought it would have been a fortituous sponsor relationship and ironic given the Oklahoma ties for Sonic.

I like the name OKC Thunderbirds more, but we got the Thunder :rolleyes:. Not too bad though.

[OSUCherokee]

I thought it would have been a fortituous sponsor relationship and ironic given the Oklahoma ties for Sonic.

I like the name OKC Thunderbirds more, but we got the Thunder :rolleyes:. Not too bad though.

Thunderbirds would have been the best, definitely.

45th Infantry "Thunderbirds"
Ford Center "T-Bird"
Red Hawk/Tornado Alley "Thunder Birds"

It would have worked so well. I was really disappointed in Thunder. But, it is what it is, and Thunder is working well enough.

[mrorange]

Thunderbirds would have been the best, definitely.

45th Infantry "Thunderbirds"
Ford Center "T-Bird"
Red Hawk/Tornado Alley "Thunder Birds"

It would have worked so well. I was really disappointed in Thunder. But, it is what it is, and Thunder is working well enough.

You know, the problem with Thunderbird is that a favorite redneck hangout in Oklahoma already bears that name :D Which is also sad in a way, because I know a little bit of the history of the 45th and it would be fitting for Oklahoma City.

[Corycowboy]

Sonicsgate,

You know your show might be good. I was going to watch it but then I read your comments in this thread. I understand your anger towards losing your team but you lose all credibility with your stupid name calling and making fun of people. Tell me how does talking/making fun of Clay Bennet's buzz cut considered a fact. ANY of you who thought the sonics would stay in Seattle after Clay bought the team is living in fairytale land. I guess that you dont understand that you dont win an argument by calling people names; especially in their own house. I for one am tired of all of the hate that Seattle spews toward OKC its old and boring.

Dont go away mad........just go away!!!!!!!!

[Sonicsgate]

Spurs Win! W/o Duncan.

[Binman4OSU]

Spurs Win! W/o Duncan.

I searched the box scores but I didn't see who Seattle played last night? Did they win? ;)

[bleedorange]

I searched the box scores but I didn't see who Seattle played last night? Did they win? ;)

They lost........



A WHOLE FRIGGIN TEAM!!!!!!!!!!!!




bwahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaa!!!:D

[Poke4Christ]

Spurs Win! W/o Duncan.

2005–06 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005%E2%80%9306_NBA_season) 35 47


2006–07 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006%E2%80%9307_NBA_season) 31 51


2007–08 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007%E2%80%9308_NBA_season) 20 62
Say Hello to the Win-Loss Record for Seattle for the last 3 season leading up to their departure to OKC. Currently, at 21-17 the Thunder have already surpassed the total wins from the last season in Seattle. If they keep this pace, they will finish the season 45-37. Which will Likely be in the playoffs an better than any of these. This is not strange. Look at the Hornets. The exact same thing happened when they moved to OKC. They dramatically improved every year and had their best year ever right after they left OKC. Since then, they've been going down hill again. I'm not saying this trend will continue, but it certainly says something about OKC. That's all that needs to be said IMHO.

[bcCowboy]

Sonicsgate, isn't this an easy situation to figure out, isn't it? The Sonics owner and Bennett are both businessmen. Previous owner was losing money, and did not have the leverage to get a new arena built. Bennett did. I don't know the numbers, but the franchise was worth a lot more to Bennett than the previous owner. I am willing to bet that if Seattle would have put up the money to build a new arena, the franchise would have been worth much more money overnight. Bennett and his partners would have sold the team for a huge profit, and tried to figure out the next best plan to get an NBA team into OKC. And if the new arena didn't happen, he would move them to OKC, and dramatically increase revenue. Again the franchise is worth more overnight. I agree than Bennett never planned to be a long term owner of the Sonics in Seattle, but I don't think he was dead set on the move. He would have been willing to take the quick juicy profit a new arena would have afforded him. I am not close to the situation, but this all seems obvious to me. Tell me where I am wrong.

[bcCowboy]

I am surprised more people don't talk about the fact that the Thunder are just killing our basketball attendance. I don't know what our attendance numbers are currently, but I know that they are anemic compared to what they were pre-Thunder. And I am willing to bet the annual attendance numbers from the first year of an expanded GIA through the the year before the Thunder arrived will never be reached as long as the Thunder are in OKC. They are just killing us, and people who think otherwise are just kidding themselves.

[Roman Craig]

Sonicsgate, isn't this an easy situation to figure out, isn't it? The Sonics owner and Bennett are both businessmen. Previous owner was losing money, and did not have the leverage to get a new arena built. Bennett did. I don't know the numbers, but the franchise was worth a lot more to Bennett than the previous owner. I am willing to bet that if Seattle would have put up the money to build a new arena, the franchise would have been worth much more money overnight. Bennett and his partners would have sold the team for a huge profit, and tried to figure out the next best plan to get an NBA team into OKC. And if the new arena didn't happen, he would move them to OKC, and dramatically increase revenue. Again the franchise is worth more overnight. I agree than Bennett never planned to be a long term owner of the Sonics in Seattle, but I don't think he was dead set on the move. He would have been willing to take the quick juicy profit a new arena would have afforded him. I am not close to the situation, but this all seems obvious to me. Tell me where I am wrong.

Dead on!

This was the plan with whoever bought them. Bennett was the high bidder so he's the bad guy in Seattle. If it wouldn't have been Bennett in OKC, it would have been someone from Kansas city. Bennett bought the sonics because they were moving, they didn't move because he bought them.

[Sonicsgate]

bcCowboy,
Actually we agree. If Seattle would have shelled out 500 million for a new arena he would have been forced to stay by the NBA and made a ton of cash. He still needed to ask for permission. With no financial hope in Seatle they(NBA) were happy to move the team.

You can actually use Clay's 'sweet flip' (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nba/2004367238_sonisale23.html)email as a reference to reinforce your point. Notice his use of deception and lies to get his way. He was a man possessed. You need to look at your 'upgrade' of the Ford Center and think to your own future.

Your businessman assumptions might be correct but for the simple fact that Clay knew Seattle would not get financing for a new arena. He left a trail of deception and underhanded communications. But if that's the type of hero you want I guess that says a lot about you.(I dare OKC to build him a new Arena with no contribution from the PBC).

I know that some people in OKC like to bathe in this type of underhanded business practice and some of you like to wear it on your chest like a badge of honor. Congrats to you for your strong morals.

If you lay down with Dogs you get up with fleas.

BTW the final 3 years the Sonics attendance in Seattle is the worst use of stats to prove a point. They gutted the Sonics and the fans refused to give money to Clay. Poor guy couldn't even go to his own games while he was in Seattle. Boo Hoo. But please keep inflating your attendance numbers to make yourself feel better. You are a major league city.

You have about 40 more years of being an NBA city before you can even begin to talk NBA trash.

[bcCowboy]

Schultze was just trying to save face. I think everyone knew all along that if a new arena wasn't built Bennett was going to move the team. I mean that was even in the purchase agreement......

Schultz's sales agreement includes a July 18, 2006, "side letter" in which Bennett writes: "It is not our intention to move or relocate the teams so long, of course, as we are able to negotiate an attractive successor venue [to KeyArena] and lease arrangement. Our commitment to you to use our good faith best efforts over the coming year to negotiate such a venue and lease arrangement in the Greater Seattle Area provides further concrete evidence of this intention."

Nothing underhanded was done here. Bennett had business partners. They would have loved a new arena in Seattle. It would have made for a big profit. I think this was out in the open all along for the most part. Of course you have to allow for some amount of PR, rather than every sports owner going around saying all they care about is the return on investment for their purchase of the team. Sports is a business. Seattle would have a BBall team if they shelled out the dough. I personally dislike OKC, so I think you are misunderstanding my point. I live in Dallas, and we lost out on the new Cowboy Stadium, because Arlington was willing to shell out the cash. That is how these stadium/arena deals work. It is all about leverage.

Also, the attendance numbers I was referring to were the OSU Mens basketball attendance, and more specifically the negative effect the Thunder are having on them. I am not a Thunder fan. I am a Dallas Mavericks fan. I could care less about the Thunder. I also don't care for OKC. Before the resurgence of downtown OKC I thought the worst cities I had ever been to in my life were Detroit, Waco TX, and OKC. Now I put OKC somewhere in the bottom fourth of the major cities in the US. But they have improved substantially in the last decade.

I was simply trying to inject some common sense into the discussion.

[GodsPeace]

bcCowboy,
Actually we agree. If Seattle would have shelled out 500 million for a new arena he would have been forced to stay by the NBA and made a ton of cash. He still needed to ask for permission. With no financial hope in Seatle they(NBA) were happy to move the team.

You can actually use Clay's 'sweet flip' (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nba/2004367238_sonisale23.html)email as a reference to reinforce your point. Notice his use of deception and lies to get his way. He was a man possessed. You need to look at your 'upgrade' of the Ford Center and think to your own future.

Your businessman assumptions might be correct but for the simple fact that Clay knew Seattle would not get financing for a new arena. He left a trail of deception and underhanded communications. But if that's the type of hero you want I guess that says a lot about you.(I dare OKC to build him a new Arena with no contribution from the PBC).

I know that some people in OKC like to bathe in this type of underhanded business practice and some of you like to wear it on your chest like a badge of honor. Congrats to you for your strong morals.

If you lay down with Dogs you get up with fleas.

BTW the final 3 years the Sonics attendance in Seattle is the worst use of stats to prove a point. They gutted the Sonics and the fans refused to give money to Clay. Poor guy couldn't even go to his own games while he was in Seattle. Boo Hoo. But please keep inflating your attendance numbers to make yourself feel better. You are a major league city.

You have about 40 more years of being an NBA city before you can even begin to talk NBA trash.

I am seeing from you is a bunch of whine. Ultimately the failure was Seattle's in this situation, and your desire to bash Clay Bennett and OKC is just a simple lack of class.

Bennett is not hero.

Your anger is sadly directed in the wrong place. I know it is easier to be mad at OKC and Bennett, but the failure was Seattle and Shultz.

Moving on now...

[HanesOnU]

Bennett is a business man, and he and the other investors took a business risk. They bet Seattle wouldn't finance it and wanted a team in OKC. They saw it as their opportunity.

If Seattle comes up with the financing, Bennett likely sells the team. It isn't like he came in before the city of Seattle had a chance. Seattle had plenty chances, but got greedy. That is why Bennett got the team. He obviously knew what he was doing.

[Poke4Christ]

Schultze was just trying to save face. I think everyone knew all along that if a new arena wasn't built Bennett was going to move the team. I mean that was even in the purchase agreement......

Schultz's sales agreement includes a July 18, 2006, "side letter" in which Bennett writes: "It is not our intention to move or relocate the teams so long, of course, as we are able to negotiate an attractive successor venue [to KeyArena] and lease arrangement. Our commitment to you to use our good faith best efforts over the coming year to negotiate such a venue and lease arrangement in the Greater Seattle Area provides further concrete evidence of this intention."

Nothing underhanded was done here. Bennett had business partners. They would have loved a new arena in Seattle. It would have made for a big profit. I think this was out in the open all along for the most part. Of course you have to allow for some amount of PR, rather than every sports owner going around saying all they care about is the return on investment for their purchase of the team. Sports is a business. Seattle would have a BBall team if they shelled out the dough. I personally dislike OKC, so I think you are misunderstanding my point. I live in Dallas, and we lost out on the new Cowboy Stadium, because Arlington was willing to shell out the cash. That is how these stadium/arena deals work. It is all about leverage.

Also, the attendance numbers I was referring to were the OSU Mens basketball attendance, and more specifically the negative effect the Thunder are having on them. I am not a Thunder fan. I am a Dallas Mavericks fan. I could care less about the Thunder. I also don't care for OKC. Before the resurgence of downtown OKC I thought the worst cities I had ever been to in my life were Detroit, Waco TX, and OKC. Now I put OKC somewhere in the bottom fourth of the major cities in the US. But they have improved substantially in the last decade.

I was simply trying to inject some common sense into the discussion.

I don't see anything wrong with How Clay handled this whole thing and the accusation simply comes because an opinion has been cast on him. He took something you loved (not that belonged to you mind you. It belonged to him) and moved it to another city. You feel he lied by saying that he would try to keep the team in Seattle, but that really just boils down to Opinion. Your opinion of what his motives were, something that can't be measured. Dealing in fact, the best you got is a few emails that hint at purpose. Beyond that, it's emotion that causes you to hate. That same emotion causes you to believe you know what his motives are and that he acted in a unethical way.

Truth is, this is human nature and it's how we work. It's almost impossible to remove our emotions from the decision and that's how we all work. It's why people on this board hate OU and why OU fans hate OSU. The only way to fight it is be consious that it exists and work to see every side. I'm no expert on that and I won't try to be.

[Sonicsgate]

yes, I am flaming on about this issue and the emotions are very much on the surface. Most everyone in Seattle did not think Clay and his comrades would stay. He is not the only villain, not arguing that. But he is a villain in the eyes of Seattle. Along with Howard and our leaders.

I am not seeing the 'other side' here because these are facts. And the facts prove that he didn't even give a good faith effort. The emails show that pretty clearly. He should have just said he was going to move them in the first place. Why bother? other then to deceive because Seattle, as we describe in our film Sonicsgate (http://sonicsgate.org/movie/), has a history of pulling through in the last second. We also thought that he would honor his lease agreement, it had 2 more years. This year would have been the final year. Clay also in his side letter said he would honor the lease agreement. He was fronting the entire time. You can not prove otherwise.

I can appreciate that you want to be logical about this but in this case 1+1=2 and it always will no matter how much you insist that there may be another answer.

Sports is a business. And we are all Fans. Good luck.

[OrangeAlert]

If most in Seattle thought he would pull the team anyway, then why do you think they would have pulled through at the last minute again? It sounds like a chicken or egg conversation, and I think in the end you're right -- we all thought (and hoped here in OKC) he was going to move the team but I just don't understand all the venom if everyone felt it was inevitable.

[mrorange]

And the facts prove that he didn't even give a good faith effort

Geez, this is getting really old. Didn't Schultz give a good faith effort and couldn't get it done? Wasn't there a final hour deal that they tried to get going (involving Ballmer's group...the one the mayor talked about in a press conference) that caught no steam in the legislature? Funny how these guys couldn't get a deal done, and everyone patted them on the back saying "nice try" but when Clay couldn't get a deal done, it was because "he wasn't trying".

The point is, Seattle collectively quit caring about the Sonics. They wanted them around as long as it was no cost to them, but they weren't going to go support them because they didn't care anymore. You know why it didn't get going in the legislature? Because the state government was reflecting the desires of its constituents, and they were for more important things than basketball. Which is fine! But it meant losing the team. So really, don't get mad at the city government or the legislature, or Schultz, or Bennett. Get mad at your neighbor who helped pass I-90. Get upset at the barber who quit caring about Sonics basketball and quit going to the games. Get all bent out of shape toward your fellow Seattleans (or whatever) because it was THEIR apathy that resounded throughout the legislature, city government, and the Schultz group and PBC.

Oh, and gloat about the Thunder losing two straight by one point to some of the best teams in the league. Looks like we're headed in the direction of the playoffs.

[GodsPeace]

Did a nice job beating up the Heat, though, on the quick turnaround.

Anyone with a brain can tell this team is actually doing much better than was expected.