[Basketball]This is why you should hate Scott Drew

You can get back to me when you have a $300 million investment into your facilities. IIRC in 2006 we had $165 million reasons recruits would perk up at hearing Mike Gundy on the phone. New weight room, training table, locker room, coaches offices, etc etc etc all on the way while these potential recruits would be at OSU.

The comparative level of our football facilities investment to Baylor basketball is such a gap that words fail me. If there were a comparative commitment from Baylor to their basketball program I think we'd all be understanding...but it's not even close.

That said, I don't know if Drew is cheating or not. If he is he'll probably get caught, and if he doesn't get caught then so be it.

I am of the opinion that with regard to Oklahoma State having success in football, Mr. Pickens's contribution was necessary, but not sufficient.

Excellent facilities do not insure success. How many programs with facilities that are just as good or better than ours, and tradition that we can only dream of, have struggled during the same period that Gundy used to built the OSU program to it's present level?

I have always said this too: I NEVER take recruiting rankings-regardless of the sport- seriously, mainly because it accounts for the number of recruits you have and avg number of stars

And particularly in basketball, if you have a relatively small class, and maybe one or two guy that werent' rated or lower-rated.

My suspicions come from them getting guys like Dunn (McDonald's AA), then guys like Acy and Anthony Jones (both of whom were recruited by schools like Arizona and Texas during their prime). And these in 2007 and 2008, respectively- just a few years removed from the scandal and probations and still in the midst of sucking.

For comparison, once again, not even Mizzou and KState, both of whom had been atleast good to very good, have been recruiting on Baylor's level the past 2 years or so.

And yes, I know everyone cheats, but I can't help but feel wary of Drew.

Every team has assistant coaches that have some "rep" about them when it comes to recruiting, but atleast Pierre & Ford has never pulled in recruits totally out of left field. Most of the kids he has recruited and recruiting is from around the LA area, which is where he came from coaching-wise.


And yes, I may just come to accept for the sake of this thread that Drew is just a damn good, sneaky cheater, and also a tireless worker.....and also a damn good liar.

There's a very low level of anyone getting caught in college basketball, largely because pretty much every program does something at least slightly illegal and the advent of AAU teams has made it even worse; you've got to do something really big and/or stupid to get caught. That being said, there's probably a reason that every other coach in the Big 12 unanimously dislikes Scott Drew.

I've mentioned this once or twice before but I have a good friend who coached an elite basketball recruit in high school several years ago, he was recruited by most of the Big 12 as well as other power programs and my friend was along for the most of the trips. There were minor violations by pretty much everyone along the way, little things that most of us probably wouldn't even realize were against the rules. I got a lot of great stories from our discussion, mostly just fun little tidbits on players and coaches I knew of. My question to him was, "So is Baylor as dirty as we think they are?"

His response: "Oh yeah."

Yea these Baylor fans who want to compare this have absolutely no clue what we have here as far as football facilities go. No CLUE.

As ive said, I dont have a clue if Drew is cheating or not. I will say these accusations of Drew being on the iffy side have been around well before Baylor was good. They have been made since the same time KSU and A&M started thier rise. Nothing was made of those schools. It very well could be that people are picking on Baylor. Then again, these accusations are not being directed towards Art Briles either. I will say the posters on OP are not the ones making this crap up. These rumors are fairly wide spread, and the results on the court tend to make you scratch your head and wonder.

I must say... Their current success still has me scratching my head.

How dare they be good and stuff? Bastards

Oh snap! Fig drops out of nowhere with the hammer! I love this thread.

What a profoundly idiotic post. I'd have chuckled and let it stand if you hadn't pushed into the absurd and personally insulting. I understand what you and the rest of the Baylor defenders in this thread say quite well. I simply don't see it as being substantive. Baylor's coaching staff works hard? Welcome to the club. Baylor "plants seeds"? Welcome to the club.

I understand many things quite well. And among the things I understand is that even Baylor fans cannot explain their basketball program's recruiting success, beyond "the coaches work hard" - which is something most of the programs against which Baylor recruits also do. In fact, every single answer Baylor fans can give can also be said of the programs against which Baylor competes.

Thus, the question: Why are these recuits choosing Baylor, particularly given the incredibly short turn-arouind between lowly Baylor and high-flying Baylor. If you think this is a biased question, you're more lost than even you appear.

This is a perfectly legitimate question, and one which is not predicated on an absolute belief that Baylor is dirty. I don't know if Baylor is dirty. I have seen nothing that strongly pushes me one way or the other. All I know is that there is - again - a very legitimate question: Why? This is a common question, though perhaps you don't notice it in the bubble of Waco, Texas. It's one being asked around the country, not simply by what you would like to believe are simply butt-hurt fans.

Whether it's because Baylor is doing sometihng special, or simply finds itself in a special situation of some sort, or whether it's dirty, it doesn't matter. The question is a legitimate one.

Translation: You just got owned, b*tch. Try sticking to the question, or I'll whip out a bit more.

I love how a couple of Baylor fans, a Jayhawk fan, a Cyclone fan, and an Aggie have come together to sing Kum-by-yah on an O-State message board.

Fade, as a group, you guys have no idea how nice our basketball/athletics facilities are...BaylorGuy314 did a better job defending Drew and refuting the whisper campaign that you guys are contributing to than I ever could back on page 3 of this thread...nothing we say will ever change your mind...20 years from now you will still be waiting for NCAA sanctions against Drew...and,

Acy just dunked again!

I finally figured out p33man's vitriol towards Baylor - he's Jim Rome in disguise: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uj-VinD6jEc

he may even have a double alias in the Jayhawk dbag too

Me thinks words have failed you far longer than before you were forced to substantiate a difference in facilities.

And the only logic offered up for the accusation of cheating is, "Well, because I can't see that he's being honest, then he must be cheating." Fascinating logic, I might add.

Let's kill a few arguments since they're becoming repetitious.
1) Because we have nice facilities, we will also have the best players.
2) Because we have a great tradition, we will also win games.
3) Because our coach says they cheat, they must be cheating.

BTW, has anyone seen the UCLA basketball program? Do you need better examples of 1 and 2? And do you honestly think your head coach is going to come out and say, "The opposing coach is more motivated than I," or "he puts more effort into recruiting than our program." Here's a hint: EVERY coach will tell you he's a hard worker and tireless recruiter. Read it again, kids. EVERY coach. Whether they do or not, is a different matter. You've been told the reason why Drew is winning, you just don't want to hear it. Here's the truth you guys are having trouble accepting. Scott Drew outworks Travis Ford. He simply does a better job recruiting than Travis and he had his team ready to play.

Do you need more evidence than Keiton Page? Who gives this guy minutes? He made several errors today that vastly outweighed his ability to make a few threes. I can tell by the body language of his teammates they don't respect him. What's the logic for keeping him on the floor?? That's coaching, ladies. This isn't intramurals, brother, this is D-1 college hoops. Do you honestly think Sutton would give him quality minutes? Seriously???? That's why you got blistered today, because you think Keiton Page can make you competitive. Don't try and take it out on Drew when you need to quit eating the crap your stupid coach sold you.

Drew can walk into any kid's living room and say two things that only a few coaches can say:
1) Baylor offers an education worth over $100k. Debate that all you want, but in Texas, over 30k students pay full tuition to attend private universities such as TCU, SMU, and Baylor. At four years, it easily exceeds 100k. Parents appreciate that kids can trade basketball for an education where others are paying big bucks.
2) Baylor is a Christian environment. Athletes, as a whole, tend to be conservative and definitely lean towards spirituality. If a kid prays every day and church is important, do you think he's going to be ok, if he's told he can't express his religious views while playing for a program or coach? Plenty of universities discourage religious expression. I could go on about this, but let's just say there is one in particular in Austin...nah, nevermind.

Now, you don't have to like that answer, but the truth is, the only people that have worked overtime to say Drew is cheating are the ones that voila, happen to be losing to Drew. Whatever.

And if you don't think the two reasons I've offered up are reasons that work for some recruits, then you're out of touch with what matters to recruits.

Ok, so you tell me HOW Travis Ford works hard. Let's hear it. I just told you two things Drew can say on the recruiting trail that only a few coaches can say. I'd love to hear ANYONE tell me that those tactics don't work. What carrot does Travis Ford use to entice recruits to Oklahoma State?

And like I said, if it were just about mentioning facilities and tradition, UCLA would be a Final Four contender every year. You're a fool if you think ALL programs work equally hard. That's so comical, it barely deserves a response. I've never known a coach in college hoops to say he didn't work hard at recruiting, and yet, I've met star players that said they were never approached by programs in which they might have been interested.

I'll give you another example since you asked. Doc Sadler at Nebraska is a great guy. Good guy, good coach. But guess what? He's in a cornfield. RARELY does he get unofficial visits from a recruit. If a star player from an inner city visits Nebraska, it's on an official visit. Otherwise, it's too far away from major cities where he can draw recruits. But he works at it, and though he has picked up a few, he's at such a disadvantage compared to ANY program within a short drive from Chicago..

If a star player is from Dallas, he can drive down to Waco on an afternoon. Same with Austin. Great little advantage to have...

Fade-
I will answer your question regarding a few recruits. I'm not an AAU coach so obviously I don't know as much as jayhawk, and I only know a lot of HS coaches so I'm not as connected as the aggie, but I happen to know a few inside scoops,

K Rog- thought he was going to be a one and done. He was that confident of himself, like many of these you men, and Baylor was the only school that could all but guarantee him starting minutes as a freshman.

CJ- wanted to play at UT but couldn't get an offer, so he wanted to play somewhere he could stick it to them.

Dugat's father was a preacher and loved the religious atmosphere.

Tweety- wasn't highly recruited for reasons already discussed and felt Baylor appreciated him most. He almost transferred after freshman year because he didn't like the situation with all the guards.

Dunn- a seedy past scared many big time programs away. Tweety a fellow louisianian, convinced him Baylor was the place for him, we see how things went for lace once tweety left.

Acy- I honestly don't know much of the story.

Ant jones- wanted to come to Baylor, another school gave him $5k to commit to them. After investigators talked to him, he committed to Baylor instead.

Walton- don't know the story.

Udon- a popular person amongst basketball players told him he thought he should visit baylor. He wanted to be closer to home and tweety sold him on the family atmosphere at Baylor.

PJIII- mom, who is a minister, was diagnosed with cancer(I think) and wanted a place where she felt like the coaching staff would watch out for his spiritual needs as well. When they made an unofficial visit his freshman year, they attended a team Bible study and PJIII was locked in. Many coaches quit recruiting him because he was so solid to Baylor from that point on.

I can tell you that the Baylor team is very close and that the players recruit each other hard. One top level recruit came back from a visit and announced to the all star team he was playing on he was going to Baylor, "who's going with me?" he screamed on the bus. Drew is relentless, and will leave no stone unturned. He is loyal to a fault and i am sure it killed him to let moreland go this summer, but he knows how often the NCAA stops by Waco, and knows that he has no slack.

To many others, you have nothing more than message board fodder to go off of. Ricky has alluded to drew cheating and has expressed his displeasure on numerous occasions,but somehow, the NCAA is more concerned with Baylor than UT... If that is what you are going with then drew must have pictures of emmert himself.

I think your being pretty naive.

1. If academics were as big of a deal as you make them out to be, the SEC wouldn't be good. Usually athletes don't get really difficult degrees as well (there are exceptions obviously).

2. A kid can practice his religious beliefs anywhere.

3. I would think it would be pretty difficult to "outwork" every coach in Division 1 basketball, but I would suppose it's possible.

3. How many other coaches have been in the news for being at a kids door at 12:01 after dead period? A little psycho maybe, but definitely hard working.

I really have no horse in this race. But I just wanted to chime in with an old quote my late father used to say to me:


"If it seems to good to be true, it then it probably is."

Cute, but if you think Baylor's middle of the pack basketball facility compares to Boone Pickens Stadium, or even Gallagher Iba Arena (which just got a $4 million locker room upgrade) you are either:
A) A complete and total dumbass
B) In love with steeples
C) Retarded
D) A Baylor fan, thus all of the above

Your facilities are not nice enough to substantively account for the meteoric rise of your basketball program. Sorry your practice gym doesn't get me hard like you...it kind of looks like a practice gym to me, so I guess I don't understand the big hoopla from the Baylor fans over it...it must have steeples or something.

Also, it's methinks, not me thinks. Next time you might want to try to be grammatically correct when taking a pot shot about someone failing at the English language, moron.