Cali says buh-bye to internal combustion engine automobiles.

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SLVRBK

Johnny 8ball's PR Manager
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#24

kaboy42

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May 2, 2007
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#26
I Googled real quick....

The least expensive electric vehicle is the Mini Cooper SE at around $31k MSRP.

Is that “affordable” for the majority of Cali’s population?
 
Feb 15, 2017
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#27
how are they going to produce all those batteries in a environmental way. https://www.businessinsider.com/bui...pollution-versus-gas-powered-vehicles-2019-11
Which is why I said you need to look at Life Cycle Analysis. That takes into consideration all emission outputs to get the product out the door. Usually not as "green" as folks think.

One example is a home garden. If you do LCA on that, you'll find that mass production has a lower emission/pound of vegetable than the back-yard garden. But media likes to toot the horn on stuff like back-yard gardens being a great green solution.
 
Feb 15, 2017
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#28
The best thing we can do to reduce emission is put igniters on the butts of cattle.
If Cattle were a country, they would be the #3 polluter in terms of Green House Gas emission (methane is alot worse GHG than CO2).

So if you could light the farts off every cow and turn that methane into CO2 and H2O, it would lower GHG emissions more than CA switching to electric cars.

(and I've got patent pending, so don't try to steal my idea . . . )
 
Sep 22, 2011
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#30
I am 100% in favor of moving to electric vehicles, but mandating it is the wrong way to do it, make cheaper and better EVs and people will buy them
 

CocoCincinnati

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#31
Question:. Will california not allow out of state trucking companies to drive through the state, delivering in goods to the state or transporting out goods to other states? What about things that arrive in CA ports that are going to other states?
 

jetman

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Nov 27, 2004
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#32
the electric grid will hold to charge them.

The problem with the electric grid is its efficiency. 50% of the power is lost in transmission along the lines to the end user. Which is why the entire country is going to need the grid replaced.

We can do better than 50% loss but it is going take some serious $$$ to replace the entire grid. However, this will put TONS of people to work when they get serious about it.
They are going to get that replaced in 15 years? 15 years comes up fast. I've been on this damn message board for 15 years already and it flew by. They better get to work.
 

Binman4OSU

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#33
They are going to get that replaced in 15 years? 15 years comes up fast. I've been on this damn message board for 15 years already and it flew by. They better get to work.
we need to replace the entire grid nationwide in reality

From the Dept of Energy. Some grids are still operating on the same system designed in the 1880's when the first Grid was turned on

But have you ever really thought about the complex system that generates electricity, carries it across miles of transmission lines and then delivers it to your home?

As you can see in the infographic above, our power grid is a network of power plants, substations, transformers, wires, sensors and poles that carry electricity sometimes hundreds of miles to be distributed to our homes, schools and offices.

Parts of this network are more than a century old -- 70 percent of the grid’s transmission lines and power transformers are over 25 years old, and the average age of power plants is over 30 years old. Today, our electricity needs are more sophisticated and the strain on the grid is higher than ever.

That’s why our experts are working to strengthen and update the grid with new technologies that help prevent outages, provide for cybersecurity and enable real-time data sharing, among other innovations.

Our electrical grid has served us well for more than 100 years, and we are working to ensure it continues for many years to come.
 

oks10

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#34
I am 100% in favor of moving to electric vehicles, but mandating it is the wrong way to do it, make cheaper and better EVs and some people will buy them
A little FIFY...

I believe it will always be an alternative to combustion engines unless they mandate those away or we run out of fuel. I can see the people that just look at vehicles as a way to get from point A to point B buying in but there's a LOT of people see vehicles as more than just that.
 
Aug 11, 2004
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Newkirk, Ok
#35
The best thing we can do to reduce emission is put igniters on the butts of cattle.
If Cattle were a country, they would be the #3 polluter in terms of Green House Gas emission (methane is alot worse GHG than CO2).

So if you could light the farts off every cow and turn that methane into CO2 and H2O, it would lower GHG emissions more than CA switching to electric cars.

(and I've got patent pending, so don't try to steal my idea . . . )
Fake news, environmental groups keep making up this crap. For starters, most of the methane given off by cattle is by belching, not farting. Number 2, "cattle and other ruminants account for just 4 percent of all greenhouse gases produced in the United States, and beef cattle just 2 percent of direct emissions." Google Frank Mitloehner at UC Davis.
 
Feb 15, 2017
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#36
"cattle as a country" meaning take world wide cattle population into account, not just the US 4%.
So you have kind of backed my point that if they are 4% of US then they are probably higher % for less developed countries. Then rank that vs all countries, I stand behind #3 rank.

As to belching, ok I'll work on that solution. Maybe mix Tums in with their feed ?
 

Birry

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Feb 6, 2007
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#37
Question:. Will california not allow out of state trucking companies to drive through the state, delivering in goods to the state or transporting out goods to other states? What about things that arrive in CA ports that are going to other states?
Per the Tweet, it says that every new car sold will be a "zero emission" vehicle. Not sure what their plan is for regulating existing ICE vehicles, including out of state, but that will be LONG transition. Probably some kind of carbon tax if I had to guess....

Also......why are environmentalists completely ignoring the carbon footprint of creating battery cells and the even bigger question of what we're going to do with all the dead cells? Lithium is a finite resource requiring massive environmental damage, so unless we start mining asteroids or other planets, there's no guarantee that we have enough to meet the proposed EV demand, and even if we do, it'll be raping the Earth to get it.

Personally, I am all-in on private companies giving consumers alternative solutions, and hope to someday own an all electric truck. But until battery tech becomes more environmentally friendly, ranges increase, and I can own my vehicle without the need for software management from the manufacturer, I'm gonna stick with my Tacoma.
 
Aug 11, 2004
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Newkirk, Ok
#38
"cattle as a country" meaning take world wide cattle population into account, not just the US 4%.
So you have kind of backed my point that if they are 4% of US then they are probably higher % for less developed countries. Then rank that vs all countries, I stand behind #3 rank.

As to belching, ok I'll work on that solution. Maybe mix Tums in with their feed ?
No, I haven't made your point at all. You're still using fake numbers if you think you can extrapolate 4% to number 3 country but I invite you to take your fart igniter to India to sell.
 

SLVRBK

Johnny 8ball's PR Manager
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#39
Per the Tweet, it says that every new car sold will be a "zero emission" vehicle. Not sure what their plan is for regulating existing ICE vehicles, including out of state, but that will be LONG transition. Probably some kind of carbon tax if I had to guess....

Also......why are environmentalists completely ignoring the carbon footprint of creating battery cells and the even bigger question of what we're going to do with all the dead cells? Lithium is a finite resource requiring massive environmental damage, so unless we start mining asteroids or other planets, there's no guarantee that we have enough to meet the proposed EV demand, and even if we do, it'll be raping the Earth to get it.

Personally, I am all-in on private companies giving consumers alternative solutions, and hope to someday own an all electric truck. But until battery tech becomes more environmentally friendly, ranges increase, and I can own my vehicle without the need for software management from the manufacturer, I'm gonna stick with my Tacoma.
From what I have read Cali will make allowances for "big rigs" and existing vehicles. They will also allow ICE powered vehicles to be transferred into the state, I'm assuming many people in Cali will be buying vehicles from out of state and transferring them into Cali if they don't like the prices or offering's of electrics.

The lifecycle carbon footprint is interesting, Mazda is working on an ICE engine that will have the same lifecycle carbon footprint of electric. Would Cali allow that vehicle to sold in state?
 
Nov 6, 2010
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#40
Which is why I said you need to look at Life Cycle Analysis. That takes into consideration all emission outputs to get the product out the door. Usually not as "green" as folks think.

One example is a home garden. If you do LCA on that, you'll find that mass production has a lower emission/pound of vegetable than the back-yard garden. But media likes to toot the horn on stuff like back-yard gardens being a great green solution.
As a backyard gardener, I"m having a hard time getting a handle on this statement. I walk out my back door in the spring and put the seeds in the ground. In 3 months I walk back out and pick the veggies and walk them back into my kitchen. How in the world would my emissions be higher?