Covid-19

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wrenhal

Federal Marshal
Aug 11, 2011
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Interesting view on lockdowns and responses to those saying we shouldn't meet with people for Thanksgiving.
But on a broader scale, for many people, their job is essential because it's the ONLY way they can provide for their families and yet they are being shutdown because government politicians are making the decisions as to what is/is not essential. Not even touching on mental health.

https://nypost.com/2020/08/23/its-time-to-loosen-lockdown-rules-for-restaurants-and-others/

1606159743841.png



“You need to lockdown in your 500 square foot apartment in NYC and cannot have friends visit.”

“I will be at my 8,000 square foot second home on a four-acre lot in the Hamptons with my extended family.”

Sound about right?
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The essential vs non essential reality divide, the non's can't live their work from home life w/o the essentials who make it possible, the ungrateful tail is wagging the exhausted dog
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Someone stuck alone in a 400 sq ft studio in a city where everything is closed doesn't want to hear that they're selfish and stupid for wanting to spend an evening with family.
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We really need to start calling out what is essentially quarantine privilege - people who are lockdown hawks because their quarantine conditions are far more comfortable than those of other people. Not everyone is in a position to forgo certain activities this readily.
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This is only one part of it. The other part is people with comfortable living arrangements, quarantining with a significant other or other family members, or in a rural area that enables more freedom of movement etc.
 
Feb 7, 2007
1,656
241
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Denver
Interesting view on lockdowns and responses to those saying we shouldn't meet with people for Thanksgiving.
But on a broader scale, for many people, their job is essential because it's the ONLY way they can provide for their families and yet they are being shutdown because government politicians are making the decisions as to what is/is not essential. Not even touching on mental health.

https://nypost.com/2020/08/23/its-time-to-loosen-lockdown-rules-for-restaurants-and-others/

View attachment 87311


“You need to lockdown in your 500 square foot apartment in NYC and cannot have friends visit.”

“I will be at my 8,000 square foot second home on a four-acre lot in the Hamptons with my extended family.”

Sound about right?
------------------
The essential vs non essential reality divide, the non's can't live their work from home life w/o the essentials who make it possible, the ungrateful tail is wagging the exhausted dog
------------------
Someone stuck alone in a 400 sq ft studio in a city where everything is closed doesn't want to hear that they're selfish and stupid for wanting to spend an evening with family.
------------------
We really need to start calling out what is essentially quarantine privilege - people who are lockdown hawks because their quarantine conditions are far more comfortable than those of other people. Not everyone is in a position to forgo certain activities this readily.
------------------
This is only one part of it. The other part is people with comfortable living arrangements, quarantining with a significant other or other family members, or in a rural area that enables more freedom of movement etc.
Now apply that logic to minimum wage being stagnant for over a decade.
 

snuffy

Calf fries are the original sack lunch.
Staff
A/V Subscriber
Feb 28, 2007
36,015
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Oklahoma
Rep. Frank Lucas: As COVID-19 winter approaches, Oklahoma must act
BY U.S. REP. FRANK LUCAS
Published: Mon, November 23, 2020 1:35 AM
Oklahoma set a record for COVID-19 hospitalizations last week, and the United States reached a grim milestone of more than 250,000 coronavirus deaths. After earlier surges in the spring and summer, the country is now in the midst of the feared fall coronavirus surge and we’re peering into the darkness that winter will bring. With more than 1,500 Oklahomans now hospitalized and new positive cases averaging more than 2,600 per day, it’s time for Oklahoma to act.

On Nov. 17 and 18, Oklahoma reported COVID-19 daily records for hospitalizations, ICU patients and deaths. On average, 20% of Oklahoma’s hospital beds are filled with those battling COVID-19; ICU bed availability has dropped to between 5% and 7%. Increases in the number of active cases come as many hospitals and their staff, especially those in rural Oklahoma, are being pushed to their limits — physically and emotionally. While it’s true that more testing reveals more cases, the number of hospitalizations gives Oklahomans an objective measure of rampant community spread of the virus.

As deaths rise this winter, Oklahoma’s leaders will need to implement steps to slow the spread of COVID. Leaders — from Congress to mayors — show no support for total lockdowns or stay-at-home orders. But science shows that there are other temporary measures available to keep our communities safe, save lives and ensure Oklahoma flattens the curve.

While inconvenient, masks help mitigate spread. Masks allow Oklahoma to preserve health care capacity, help keep schools open and ensure businesses continue to create prosperity for our communities. Simply put, everyone wearing a mask in public will reduce spread of the coronavirus and save lives. As of Nov. 18, 36 states had implemented mask mandates. From Oklahoma’s neighbors like Kansas and Texas to states like North Carolina and Alabama, the enforcement of mask mandates varies from state to state, and even community to community based on individual need. As Dr. Scott Gottlieb, former commissioner of the U.S. Food & Drug Administration, wrote in The Wall Street Journal, “States should be able to choose how to enforce a mandate, but the goal should be to make masks a social and cultural norm, not a political statement.”

Another measure of intervention Oklahoma must consider is limiting crowded settings. According to researchers at Stanford University, most COVID-19 transmissions occur at full-service restaurants, grocery stores, gyms, cafes and other “superspreader sites.” Capping indoor capacity between 20% and 50% could decrease new infections by as much as 80% — a public health intervention that will be important to focus on as activities move indoors for the winter months. No business leader or public official recommends shutting down our economy, but we do believe in following the science and proper recommended interventions of doctors and epidemiologists.

During the summer, we were warned by public health officials about the dangers winter would bring. With infections and hospitalizations rising, and a vaccine not likely being widely available until next year, Oklahoma must act quickly with the resources we have available now. Wearing a mask and limiting crowd capacity will be a temporary inconvenience for many of us but could have lifesaving results for our neighbors. While many who become infected with the coronavirus will survive, we must have compassion for Oklahoma’s elderly and infirm. Over time, with a vaccine, COVID-19 will become a manageable risk and we will once again be able to celebrate all of life’s milestones and occasions with our families and friends.

Lucas, R-Cheyenne, represents Oklahoma's 3rd Congressional District
 
Nov 8, 2007
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Bartlesville
My observation in Tulsa yesterday (where there is a mask mandate) vs. Bartlesville (where there isn't). Went to my daughter's softball practice and had to go out to pick up a few things. It looked like just under 50% of people in Tulsa were wearing masks CORRECTLY. There were several that had them hanging from one ear, or down under their nose or even chin. This is pretty much what I observe in Bartlesville.

I don't believe a mandate works unless it is enforceable. And if we make the mandate enforceable, we have entered a very scary time.
 
My observation in Tulsa yesterday (where there is a mask mandate) vs. Bartlesville (where there isn't). Went to my daughter's softball practice and had to go out to pick up a few things. It looked like just under 50% of people in Tulsa were wearing masks CORRECTLY. There were several that had them hanging from one ear, or down under their nose or even chin. This is pretty much what I observe in Bartlesville.

I don't believe a mandate works unless it is enforceable. And if we make the mandate enforceable, we have entered a very scary time.
How do you enforce it? IMO the people who will follow the order are wearing them now. Mandate or no mandate. The people who are not willing to wear them now are not going to just because their is a mandate. There is no realistic way to enforce a mandate
 
Nov 8, 2007
3,531
1,152
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Bartlesville
My observation in Tulsa yesterday (where there is a mask mandate) vs. Bartlesville (where there isn't). Went to my daughter's softball practice and had to go out to pick up a few things. It looked like just under 50% of people in Tulsa were wearing masks CORRECTLY. There were several that had them hanging from one ear, or down under their nose or even chin. This is pretty much what I observe in Bartlesville.

I don't believe a mandate works unless it is enforceable. And if we make the mandate enforceable, we have entered a very scary time.
How do you enforce it? IMO the people who will follow the order are wearing them now. Mandate or no mandate. The people who are not willing to wear them now are not going to just because their is a mandate. There is no realistic way to enforce a mandate
That is my point exactly. The only way to effectively enforce it would be with legal action (fine/arrest)...and that is terrifying.
 

Boomer.....

Territorial Marshal
Feb 15, 2007
7,115
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OKC
That is my point exactly. The only way to effectively enforce it would be with legal action (fine/arrest)...and that is terrifying.
You mean like what is being discussed in Norman :facepalm::

“I’ve had community members reach out to me that their places of employment, that are dealing with the public, are not requiring employees to wear masks,” Petrone said. “So it’s leaving these employees that feeling like they either have to quit their job in a climate where jobs are scarce already, or they can continue to put themselves at risk of contracting COVID.”
A resident emailed Petrone and asked if the city could use CARES Act funds to hire temporary employees to help enforce it.
“As that conversation progressed, I got the idea of temporary labor positions, $15 an hour, in plainclothes to check on businesses and see for themselves if there’s a complaint. They could take a picture with their iPhone or have some kind of documentation. If that company was to be cited, then it would be ticketed by mail from the city,” Petrone said.

https://www.normantranscript.com/ne...cle_c6dd1388-2ba7-11eb-a229-b7f246e5f800.html
 
Mar 11, 2006
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Pretty sure I read somewhere that Key West has starting enforcing a $500 fine for their mask mandate.
I can’t confirm Key West, but I was in Islamorada in mid-Oct. it was “fairly” strict with masks, but honestly not much different than here.
I was down there on a scuba trip. Biggest change was we couldn’t dunk and rinse our mask and snorkel into the tub. Had to do it individually with wipes.

I am going to Key West over Christmas and have heard that masks are required walking through Duval Street.
 

Rack

Legendary Cowboy
Oct 13, 2004
24,269
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Earth
Yea. Almost as scary as public nudity laws. Being nude in public harms nobody yet that freedom has been taken away from us willy-nilly by an oppressive government and is strictly enforced.
Agreed and I'm outraged...except at Walmart...I'm not outraged at Walmart.

Personal note..hope you are doing well. I'm not going to my parents for Thanksgiving and most of my family isn't either...we are being extra careful and hoping for a vaccine very very soon. I hear we have ordered one of the sub-zero freezers or even two at the medical center one of the vaccines and we are preparing for the other. Sure hope it soon as I'm on the outside looking in. Any news for you on that front?
 
That is my point exactly. The only way to effectively enforce it would be with legal action (fine/arrest)...and that is terrifying.
How do you enforce the fine or arrest? Post a police officer at every location in town where people can assemble? Are we going to put an officer in the public library? Every business? Church? Imposing a fine or mandate sounds good on paper. The reality of enforcing it not so much.
 

UrbanCowboy1

Some cowboys gots smarts real good like me.
Aug 8, 2006
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Phoenix, AZ
I've come to the conclusion that this is just going to get worse until we get the vaccine dispersed to a large portion of the population - I expect increasing numbers until late January.

Getting the healthcare workers done will be a massive step. BTW, we might need a new thread on just how big a deal using our first mRNA vaccine is.
 
Nov 6, 2010
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I've come to the conclusion that this is just going to get worse until we get the vaccine dispersed to a large portion of the population - I expect increasing numbers until late January.

Getting the healthcare workers done will be a massive step. BTW, we might need a new thread on just how big a deal using our first mRNA vaccine is.
Yea, I think any chance we had to get on top of this thing is long gone, it's just too prevalent now to have any hope of containment until the vaccine is widely available. Just have to manage your own behavior according to your own risk tolerance.
 

Cimarron

It's not dying I'm talking about, it's living.
Jun 28, 2007
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Yea, I think any chance we had to get on top of this thing is long gone, it's just too prevalent now to have any hope of containment until the vaccine is widely available. Just have to manage your own behavior according to your own risk tolerance.
As I recall of the approach recommended early on was to flatten the curve. I don't recall anyone saying we could stop it?
 
Nov 6, 2010
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As I recall of the approach recommended early on was to flatten the curve. I don't recall anyone saying we could stop it?
However you define success, my point is, it's just too late now. Short of another total lockdown, which no one will accept, it has spread beyond control.