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Did we just lose a home baseball series to Houston?

Discussion in 'OSU Sports Forum' started by bacowboy, Mar 18, 2012.

  1. PanhandleCowboy

    PanhandleCowboy Deputy

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    All this Gary Ward talk reminds of last year when I had an ex mlb manager in my office and when he saw that I was an OSU fan, he had some interesting comments about Gary Ward. I will say that he was not a fan of Gary Ward and let me know in some colorful language what he thought of him.
     
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  2. RutherfordFan

    RutherfordFan Territorial Marshal

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    Who knows man. Egos get involved. I'm not saying Gard Ward was a saint. He probably is a jerk but we won is all I know. He was a winner.
     
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  3. poke44osu

    poke44osu Cowboy

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    I can speak to this and it hits the nail right on the head, unfortunately the key missing is that Holiday and Anderson are very similar in their preferred style of play. What is different is that TH was a tremendous recruiter and for the 6 to 8 years after Ward retired TH still had players in the system and many of those were quality hitters who WANTED to play for OSU because of the tradition of absolutely murdering the baseball!
    TH attempted to change the scholly mix to give more money to arms. What has changed is the money in the draft for these big time arms. Nearly every big time arm gets $1million and trying to recruit the left overs is killing us. We need to recruit the bats because there are far more undervalued hitters that will develop in college than pitchers. Sure you go after big time arms, but you need to know odds are not good that they will go to ANY school. Smart coaches are recruiting hitters. Yeah the bats are not as live as they once were, but do you for a second think that the old Cowboy teams would not have still led the league and in many times the country in hitting? YES they would because if you can hit, you can hit.....
    Of the 12 Scholly's given to those teams you can bet 9 were going to big time hitters. The other 3 were spread out to the pitching staff and if we had to we would beat you 19-18. Today we are happy losing 3-2 and getting reccognition for the guy who leads the league in strike outs while we flounder in the bottom half of the league.

    So saying an old player with knowledge of how we made it work for 20 years would not guarantee winning is right, but it is totally wrong as to why you say that. We need Walton or someone similar to come in here and change the philosophy! It is not because Anderson is an outsider, it is because he never embraced what got us to the dance. If his method had worked, then we would be happy, but it has not. He has gotten worse since all the players were his......
     
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  4. poke44osu

    poke44osu Cowboy

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    Just so you know, from first hand experience he is one of the top 5 human beings I have ever met!
     
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  5. RutherfordFan

    RutherfordFan Territorial Marshal

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    Well awesome to hear that poke44. Personally I loved the guy but of course I did because we were awesome to watch!! :p
     
  6. RutherfordFan

    RutherfordFan Territorial Marshal

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    I'm with you poke. Why not hand out schollys to guys who can hit. We bashed the ball and we won. It makes to sense to thumb ur nose at that tradition. I get that Frank is a pitching coach background but still only give out 4 to pitchers and the rest to some guys that can launch the baseball. Heck that's more fun to watch anyway!
     
  7. prongATO

    prongATO Wrangler

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    I'd really like to see the letter and know more details. After what GW did for OSU sports and baseball if they treated him badly, they need to make amends. I think Holder has a lot to learn about being an AD as opposed to a golf coach.
     
  8. prongATO

    prongATO Wrangler

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    I'm still hoping beyond hope though, that the team gets on a hot streak during conference play and into the regionals. I just want to see OSU baseball back where it was, at the top or close to it every year. I have very fond memories of attending regional after regional in Stillwater. Going to bedlam games when it was home/home. Big 8 tournaments at All Sports Stadium, I'd get all session tickets and go to every game. Heck I remember when Iowa State still had a team :)
     
  9. Roman Craig

    Roman Craig Race Ya Home! A/V Subscriber

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    Was it Bobby Valentine?
     
  10. PanhandleCowboy

    PanhandleCowboy Deputy

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    Nope
     
  11. OrangeAlum

    OrangeAlum Deputy

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    You can't compare basketball & baseball.

    Mike Holder jacking up basketball ticket prices is the primary reason for the poor attendance. Holder turned off a ton longtime season ticket holders by not only raising ticket prices, but also the donation just to keep your seats (astronomically, donations went up like 500%)

    That, combined with Ford's lackluster teams, are the reasons basketball attendance is so down. Ford's home record is actually pretty good.

    You can't say the same for baseball attendance. There is just downright apathy for OSU baseball now. That's the first sign a coach should go. For instance, look at Tulsa basketball: Doug Wojick won a lot of games (TU all-time wins leader) but attendance & fan interest was so down they had to make a move.

    The only question is: Does Mike Holder give a rip if there's 300 people in the stands for baseball games? I doubt it.
     
  12. Roman Craig

    Roman Craig Race Ya Home! A/V Subscriber

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    Damn
     
  13. PCpoke83

    PCpoke83 Master of Puppets A/V Subscriber

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    Gary Ward, himself, was here to fund raise through the Homerun Club a few years ago and was told that we did not want a bunch of small donations and to cease fundraising efforts. Holder wants one large donation, ala the football stadium.

    Baseball alums have been much more involved over the past year or two. While out in California for the Poly series, Robin Ventura and his dad cooked the team a meal at his place. Former pitcher, Nick McCurdy is on staff and helping while finishing a degree. Others are keenly aware of the uphill battle that faces the program right now. Lets just say there is an apathy within the AD toward doing anything to correct the situation.

    The resources to compete in the Big 12 conference really aren't there. I've been to many of the regional parks for games and they all have a common theme to their success and that theme is money and fan support. Arkansas, TCU, Texas, A&M, Wichita State, et al have all enjoyed success because of the monetary commitment to the respective programs. There were 5000 people at the TCU Sunday finale.... blah blah blah, it's Ft. Worth... blah blah... We had 311 at our game on Sunday. Nobody cares about anything other than football. TCU had all sorts of fan friendly things going on at the park to attract families to the ball park. There was tailgating and fraternities and sororities were at the Friday night game being obnoxious. There is none of that here.

    Further, everybody wants to bring back an OSU guy like Walton or Wine. What are they doing right now?

    ORU: 9-10
    Penn St: 3-14

    Are they bad coaches because they have losing records? Probably not, the theme here is commitment to baseball. ORU doesn't have a lot of money. Penn State probably doesn't have a large baseball budget being up North.

    If you listen to interviews with Gary Ward (He will come on with Tom Dirato and others occasionally), you would be singing a different tune about where the program is at and where it should be. There is zero commitment to the baseball program at OSU and things could be much worse than they are currently.

    Yes it sucks losing games where doing the little things predicates a different outcome, but unfortunately we have 25 new faces. We've given them 20 games to see who can hit and who can do certain things at the plate. Certain guys can and other have had difficulty. Those who can get the job done will play. Those who can't won't.

    This is the first full set of scholarships we have had to work with. That is something that was not Frank's fault. We've patched our teams in the past with a ton of JUCO and D1 Transfers that served as a quick fix. That's really no way to live or build a program, but unfortunately was our only option at the time. It worked pretty well for the most part.

    This year we have several freshmen who are contributing for the first time in a long time. We have a better class coming in next year, according to the coaches. I know for a fact that they are very high on Brent Williams from Colorado Springs and if he shows up on campus will provide a ton of power to an already potent line up. (We currently lead the Big 12 in HRs again)

    By the way, the guy we faced Saturday (we lost 8-1) also beat Arkansas. Houston's weekend pitching is about what you will see from most Big 12 teams. Ottoson was sick this weekend and McCurry may be sliding into the bullpen, where he is better suited. He throws harder out of the pen and gets better bite on his slider. We are also without a couple guys who would be contributing this year, if not for injuries... namely Jason Hursh, who would fill one weekend slot. That weekend rotation (Heaney, Hursh, Ottoson) would be rivaled only by A&M.

    There are a ton of similar teams in the Big 12 this year, so it will be interesting to see how things shake out, but I still like our guys if they can correct a few things.

    A coaching change in this instance, isn't some magical fix that lands us back in Omaha on a consistent basis.

    The best thing you can do if you want to see improvement is to show up to Allie P, take an interest in the program, and donate to the Home Run Club. We need fans to create an atmosphere and to show that there is still an excitement for Cowboy Baseball. That will resonate more than anything at this point.
     
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  14. PCpoke83

    PCpoke83 Master of Puppets A/V Subscriber

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    The tennis teams are 3rd priority on the Colvin courts. They have to schedule around classes and other nonsense that utilize the courts at higher priority than the teams.
     
  15. PCpoke83

    PCpoke83 Master of Puppets A/V Subscriber

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    You cannot play gorilla ball with these bats. The college game has changed and it relies on good pitching, defense, and timely hitting. Whomever Fs up first/most loses. You can't just bash your way out of a hole anymore. We've set an OSU record for fielding percentage each of the past 4 years or so. The "weaker hitting numbers" are a result of a few things, namely BBCOR and scholarship reductions.

    We lead the league in Home Runs again and we're 3rd in team ERA. Our pitching has been pretty good over the last few years and is currently 2 earned runs out of the best ERA in the conference. Spencer Grogan, Scott Richmond, Brae Wright, Justin Friend, Tyler Lyons, Andrew Oliver, Andrew Heaney have all been money for us over the years.

    "sissified..."???? Jim, is that you?
     
  16. OrangeAlum

    OrangeAlum Deputy

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    Simple solutions: Get rid of tennis & track.

    And watch old Gary Ward & Jim Traber highlights!
     
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  17. prongATO

    prongATO Wrangler

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    You left out Rocky Ward who is doing quite well at NMS.

    I agree that there seems to be zero support. I try to do my part but it's just depressing how bad it's gotten.

    While some who never actually saw GW teams play may perceive it as such, I watched for a decade and it wasn't gorilla ball. There was/is an actual philosophy. Disciplined hitting, taking pitchers deep into counts, the ability to protect the plate, etc. The game has always required good fielding, pitching and timely hitting. To say that's a new thing is a bit humerious.

    While we may be number one in HRs and two earned runs away from the best ERA (which is a pretty big gap) but the teams performance has been pretty terrible. An utter lack if understanding basic hitting principle cripples the team every season. The current offensive system is either feast or famine. More discipline at the plate will translate into a more consistent offensive output and help the pitchers considerably.

    Since you seem to be very knowledgeable about some of the details, could you explain what the details of all this scholarship mess is? I've heard all kinds of different stories. What years were we down and by how much? It just seems like every time anything goes south with the current coaching staff someone inevetiably references the lack of scholarships. I heard last year he had full scholarships now it's supposedly this year.

    Regardless I hope the team shakes the rust off and starts winning some games in bunches against GOOD teams. So far we're kicking the crap out of RPI 250 and below but can't muster much against teams with respectable RPIs.
     
  18. Carneyman14

    Carneyman14 Amazing golf ball whacker guy A/V Subscriber

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    I think we have been down a few just a bout every year of FA tenure. Its not a lot. 3 schollarships maybe. But you have to remember that baseball gets what like 12-14 schollys? Robin Ventura in his prime never got a full ride. Not even close. so 3 schollys down is like 20 in football.
     
  19. orangepower317

    orangepower317 Sheriff

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    So, when are we ready to admit that timely hitting is a CONSISTENT problem (don't even think about arguing otherwise) and that we have consistently been that team who F's up the most ever since 08?

    Guys like Inky and Ventura would still be murdering the ball with these new bats. Yes, their numbers would not be as high, compared to what other teams are doing with the new bats, they would still be leading the nation in murdering the ball.

    Guys like Wright, Ridling, Mach, Brown, Mangini, Hague, Webb, and Fields (all coached by Anderson) would also be leading the charge offensively against other teams. We would not have to rely on small ball with guys like that in the lineup. It all comes down to style of play and execution. Any style can work, if it's executed properly.

    Here's an analogy. Let's say they changed college football, where you had to pick up 20 yards for a 1st down instead of 10. Do you think that would render athletes like Weeden, Blackmon, Hunter, etc. useless? Heck no, they would still be big time offensive threats. Our offensive numbers wouuld be down (just like the rest of the nation) but compared to the rest of the nation, our offensive numbers would be very good. Seems that you're trying to make the argument that since the bats have been changed, then no one can succeed with a high octane offensive philosophy. I don't think that is a very logical argument to make.

    Small ball can be made to work, even at a championship level. Texas and Augie have proven it. Thing is, when we try to play small ball, we screw it up very often. Whether it's not being able to get a bunt down, keeping from hitting into the double play, or baserunning errors, you have to admit that the fundamentals to play good small ball have been lacking for years under Anderson's leadership. Again, like I said earlier, any style of play can be screwed up, and any style of play can be made to work. Under Anderson, our best teams were offensive minded teams. Our worst teams have been the small ball type. Believe me, if we were winning games 1- 0 and 2 - 1 consistently like what Texas does year in and year out (I know they've struggled so far this year) I wouldn't be concerned. And, just so you know, I'm not expecting CWS appearances either.

    I have defended Frank for a while now, but this is the point I want your opinion on. What do you think about the demeanor, attitude, and body language of our baseball teams since that very good 08 season? I have attended my fair share of games, and I am alarmed at the lack of fire, especially when we are losing by a slim margin. Houston's dugout was talking and chattering the entire weekend, while our guys acted like they were at a funeral. I saw a lot of that from us in 09, and some of that last year too. This year is just bringing it all back. So, are you ignoring that facet of the argument, or do you see it and just decide it's not a big deal? I want to hear your viewpoint of it.

    I have been around all sports long enough to know, that teams can't compete at a high level when there's a lack of chemistry and/or lack of leadership and/or lack of competitive fire among the players and coaches.

    Here's the deal, like I said earlier, I am not screaming to be in the CWS any time soon. I understand the lack of support. But, here's what I want to see on the field:
    A fired up team that shows up ready to play every day, regardless of opponent, and plays good, sound, fundamental baseball in accordance with the style the coach prefers. In my opinion, if our team, with the talent we have right here right now, did this, they would definitely go back to a regional.

    One more thing. I am not in favor of firing Anderson. I am in favor of making a change if he doesn't lead us back to a regional this year.

    As for the Trabor comment, you either didn't really read what I had to say about that, or you are one of these who truly believes that we should never fire coach due to lack of winning and lack of attendance. If you are the latter, then I've wasted my time trying to use logic with you anyway...
     
  20. orangepower317

    orangepower317 Sheriff

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    The lack of scholarships has been a big blow. You're right, 3 shollys down is like 20 in football, crazy. Last year we were down like 1/3 of a sholarship, or maybe even less. This year is the first year for us to be back at full strength.
     
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