If Football Is Cancelled

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cowboyinexile

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These players put their health and potentially their lives on the line every time they suit up. Give them all the information about the risks and mitigations, give them no negative consequences for not playing and then let them make the decision whether to play or not. McDonalds workers are expected to work through this whole thing, I’m not saying that there should be a season, but lets not act like this is any different than the decisionS real workers make every day.
It's where I'm torn on this. On one hand this virus is real and I don't want a 20 year old kid to get sick enough that it affects him his entire life or worse just because I like the color of his jersey. On the other, we have kids every year retire because of sports related injuries that will likely have long term consequences and we are fine with that. I don't know the statistics but CTE is a serious consequence from playing football and is the risk of that greater than a serious case of COVID? I honestly don't know.

I've heard multiple college officials whose school is shutting down their season say they don't want someone to die on their watch. For Washington State, Tyler Hilinski died on their watch. For our school, Tyrek Coger died on ours. I completely get their concerns and understand that those were instances where their deaths were tragic, but impacted only them, whereas with this it's something that could be spread to others.

I hope to see a fun and safe football season, but if we can't do it I understand. But as a sports fan I gotta question why one risk that hasn’t changed in the last 12 months is completely acceptable while this new risk isn't.
 

RxCowboy

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So, no truckers, no trains, no packages requiring planes with flight crews.....

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Which is why we're on the verge of canceling college football. People just can't quite imagine doing what it might take to flatten the curve. They're desperate to find reasons why we can't. Congrats, though, you're getting what you want.
 

RxCowboy

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These players put their health and potentially their lives on the line every time they suit up. Give them all the information about the risks and mitigations, give them no negative consequences for not playing and then let them make the decision whether to play or not. McDonalds workers are expected to work through this whole thing, I’m not saying that there should be a season, but lets not act like this is any different than the decisionS real workers make every day.
We closed McDonald's for a while, and we probably opened it back up too quickly.

Real workers don't get tackled by a free safety who is acting like a heat-seeking missile every day. Football is not real life, real life is not football.

What is "all the information and mitigations" on risks of playing a collision sport in the midst of a pandemic with cardiovascular and thromboembolic sequelae? Tell me, convince me.
 

RxCowboy

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Looks like another high risk scenario to me. What the hell does this article have to do with the risk of myocarditis to college athletes. This article states that up to 7% of covid deaths were attributable to myocarditis. Lets see...what percentage of Covid related deaths are in the 65+ age group? And how many of them likely had myocarditis before even being "allegedly" Covid+. This risk of developing myocarditis in college football players is likely the same odds that you will come out from under your rock....about 1 in a million.
This is called "minimizing". It is a defensive strategy when receiving information that doesn't fit with preconceived views. Rather than considering the new information and incorporating it into thoughts and opinions, it is minimized and rejected because it doesn't fit.
 

RxCowboy

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It's where I'm torn on this. On one hand this virus is real and I don't want a 20 year old kid to get sick enough that it affects him his entire life or worse just because I like the color of his jersey. On the other, we have kids every year retire because of sports related injuries that will likely have long term consequences and we are fine with that. I don't know the statistics but CTE is a serious consequence from playing football and is the risk of that greater than a serious case of COVID? I honestly don't know.

I've heard multiple college officials whose school is shutting down their season say they don't want someone to die on their watch. For Washington State, Tyler Hilinski died on their watch. For our school, Tyrek Coger died on ours. I completely get their concerns and understand that those were instances where their deaths were tragic, but impacted only them, whereas with this it's something that could be spread to others.

I hope to see a fun and safe football season, but if we can't do it I understand. But as a sports fan I gotta question why one risk that hasn’t changed in the last 12 months is completely acceptable while this new risk isn't.
Football is a dangerous sport. My first year coaching youth football I had a kid break his ankle. I went to the ER with him and stood there while they cut off his sock (thinking back, I can't believe they let me in the suite, it was probably a HIPAA violation, but Chickasha). I kept his sock. I kept his sock in my pocket for every game and every practice for the five years I coached to remind myself that these were kids playing a man's game. I kept it in my pocket to remind myself never to expect something out of these children that was inappropriate for their age.

I have had two knee surgeries, and have three fractures in my lumbar spine that can't be repaired, all football injuries - my one year of small college ball as a backup center lining up at practice every freaking day against an NAIA all american noseguard. What's more, I separated my shoulder my soph year in high school wrestling and it needs a pin in it, which I am loathe to have done, but it hurts most of the time. But for all those injuries the R0=0. Those were risks I accepted when I played, and my accepting them affected me alone. I cannot stand next to someone and have them catch my lumbar spinal injuries. Thus, "there are risks inherent to football" is an apple, and "risks associated with COVID-19" is an orange. They simply aren't the same thing.
 

RxCowboy

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It’s entertainment to me, but I’m also concerned with life...My point was that it’s not JUST about entertainment..I also care
You also care... which means what? You care more about being entertained than about player health and safety? You care more about the lives of players and their health and safety than your entertainment? Explain what you mean by "I also care".
 
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We closed McDonald's for a while, and we probably opened it back up too quickly.

Real workers don't get tackled by a free safety who is acting like a heat-seeking missile every day. Football is not real life, real life is not football.

What is "all the information and mitigations" on risks of playing a collision sport in the midst of a pandemic with cardiovascular and thromboembolic sequelae? Tell me, convince me.
Thats the great thing, i dont have to convince you, you aren't the one taking the risk. Also dont get me wrong if there is no college football season i will be sad but it is way down on my list of concerns right now. Slightly higher on my list of concerns is people losing their choice to take risks for large rewards. Why do we act like college football puts people at any higher risk for covid than working a line at a restaurant or a meat packing plant? As I said lay out the risk, tell the players all the steps you are taking to mitigate those risks, and give them a redshirt year if they don’t want to risk it. If you have enough players across the league then let them play.
 
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We closed McDonald's for a while, and we probably opened it back up too quickly.

Real workers don't get tackled by a free safety who is acting like a heat-seeking missile every day. Football is not real life, real life is not football.

What is "all the information and mitigations" on risks of playing a collision sport in the midst of a pandemic with cardiovascular and thromboembolic sequelae? Tell me, convince me.
The McDonalds where I lived never closed, at least not the drive through, walmart never closed, the meat packing plants didn't close. Once again, not saying that there should or should not be a season, just saying the decision should be put in the hands of the ones taking the risk. College football is a business decision for most of the kids in D1, whether it is buying them tuition or a shot at the nfl. Let them make the decision, and see where we are.
 

Rack

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You also care... which means what? You care more about being entertained than about player health and safety? You care more about the lives of players and their health and safety than your entertainment? Explain what you mean by "I also care".
I think I've done that pretty extensively, I actually believe that they are safer in terms of their care playing football in the intense healthcare environment that they are placed in at Oklahoma State than they would be otherwise, thus to not allow them to play is, IMHO, worse for their mental and physical health than allowing it.
 

Rack

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Which is why we're on the verge of canceling college football. People just can't quite imagine doing what it might take to flatten the curve. They're desperate to find reasons why we can't. Congrats, though, you're getting what you want.
I don't think Oklahoma State is "on the verge of canceling college football," others in blue state America are, but not in the red states. AND, in those red states where they have been canceled they are pissed about it. Like it or not it is political in it's nature. Agree or disagree it really doesn't matter, it's seen in that way by a massively huge (like 1/2 the population) number of people. They feel it's (covid) overly focused on to the determent of society in some areas, and under focused on to that same determent in others. We have yet to find our balance on this thing and likely will not until the medical community comes up with a proven vaccine and treatments so we can basically ignore it in terms of our daily life as we do other illnesses in our society. In fact, the schools that canceled football are too lazy to do the healthcare part of it correctly or have bowed to pressure in such a way that are putting their kids at more risk by NOT playing...not the other way around. You have read and observed what OSU is doing to be innovative and in even more compliance than others. I can't see how it's anything but an absolute FACT that the kids are safer and more healthy in that program, and by a long shot than they would be outside of it in our current environment where we are NOT and will NOT BE shutdown.
 

cowboyinexile

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Football is a dangerous sport. My first year coaching youth football I had a kid break his ankle. I went to the ER with him and stood there while they cut off his sock (thinking back, I can't believe they let me in the suite, it was probably a HIPAA violation, but Chickasha). I kept his sock. I kept his sock in my pocket for every game and every practice for the five years I coached to remind myself that these were kids playing a man's game. I kept it in my pocket to remind myself never to expect something out of these children that was inappropriate for their age.

I have had two knee surgeries, and have three fractures in my lumbar spine that can't be repaired, all football injuries - my one year of small college ball as a backup center lining up at practice every freaking day against an NAIA all american noseguard. What's more, I separated my shoulder my soph year in high school wrestling and it needs a pin in it, which I am loathe to have done, but it hurts most of the time. But for all those injuries the R0=0. Those were risks I accepted when I played, and my accepting them affected me alone. I cannot stand next to someone and have them catch my lumbar spinal injuries. Thus, "there are risks inherent to football" is an apple, and "risks associated with COVID-19" is an orange. They simply aren't the same thing.
I know it's apples and oranges, but the conferences that are shutting down football are saying it's because of player safety. They aren't saying we think kids on the team will give it to grandma or we don't want a bunch of people tailgating on Saturdays and spreading this. The focus is on the players. I agree that is a very good reason, but if this thing goes away tomorrow and the next day a kid breaks his back in practice are the same people who are saying they can't live with themselves if a kid dies on their watch going to have the same attitude?

Again, I'm not trying to say I want muh football bygawd here. I'm just wondering why we as fans, myself included, can see one risk to player safety as acceptable and another as not. It's just something I've struggled to wrap my head around the past few days.
 

RxCowboy

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I know it's apples and oranges, but the conferences that are shutting down football are saying it's because of player safety. They aren't saying we think kids on the team will give it to grandma or we don't want a bunch of people tailgating on Saturdays and spreading this. The focus is on the players. I agree that is a very good reason, but if this thing goes away tomorrow and the next day a kid breaks his back in practice are the same people who are saying they can't live with themselves if a kid dies on their watch going to have the same attitude?

Again, I'm not trying to say I want muh football bygawd here. I'm just wondering why we as fans, myself included, can see one risk to player safety as acceptable and another as not. It's just something I've struggled to wrap my head around the past few days.
From the Big 10 announcement:
"“Our primary responsibility is to make the best possible decisions in the interest of our students, faculty and staff,” said Morton Schapiro, Chair of the Big Ten Council of Presidents/Chancellors and Northwestern University President."
 

Rack

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It's where I'm torn on this. On one hand this virus is real and I don't want a 20 year old kid to get sick enough that it affects him his entire life or worse just because I like the color of his jersey. On the other, we have kids every year retire because of sports related injuries that will likely have long term consequences and we are fine with that. I don't know the statistics but CTE is a serious consequence from playing football and is the risk of that greater than a serious case of COVID? I honestly don't know.

I've heard multiple college officials whose school is shutting down their season say they don't want someone to die on their watch. For Washington State, Tyler Hilinski died on their watch. For our school, Tyrek Coger died on ours. I completely get their concerns and understand that those were instances where their deaths were tragic, but impacted only them, whereas with this it's something that could be spread to others.

I hope to see a fun and safe football season, but if we can't do it I understand. But as a sports fan I gotta question why one risk that hasn’t changed in the last 12 months is completely acceptable while this new risk isn't.
Risk and death are all things that are inherent in life. This decision is like the spongebob episode "indoors." We have to make the determination for ourselves if we are willing to live our lives or just attempt to protect ourselves all of that life. I would challenge you that life is worth the consequence of even death. This is truly a national phycological issue and dilemma that we all have as we educate our minds and learn more and more about risk and reward. We must, each, in a free society, determine the level of risk we are willing to take for that reward on ourselves. This doesn't mean we don't mitigate that risk as we can, but how much and what level of mitigation of risk are we willing to take on to be "safe" and how much of that effects others? Especially as that "safety" is mostly a falsehood and fallacy for us all because if Covid doesn't get us, a car wreak, violence, breathing in pollution, or just some other weird accident just might....no matter how much we mitigate life's dangerous world none of us get out of this thing alive...figure out what happens next and it will free you and those around up to live better with each breath. This doesn't mean we completely abandoned safety but we put it in balance with risk.
 
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RxCowboy

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I don't think Oklahoma State is "on the verge of canceling college football," others in blue state America are, but not in the red states. AND, in those red states where they have been canceled they are pissed about it. Like it or not it is political in it's nature. Agree or disagree it really doesn't matter, it's seen in that way by a massively huge (like 1/2 the population) number of people. They feel it's (covid) overly focused on to the determent of society in some areas, and under focused on to that same determent in others. We have yet to find our balance on this thing and likely will not until the medical community comes up with a proven vaccine and treatments so we can basically ignore it in terms of our daily life as we do other illnesses in our society. In fact, the schools that canceled football are too lazy to do the healthcare part of it correctly or have bowed to pressure in such a way that are putting their kids at more risk by NOT playing...not the other way around. You have read and observed what OSU is doing to be innovative and in even more compliance than others. I can't see how it's anything but an absolute FACT that the kids are safer and more healthy in that program, and by a long shot than they would be outside of it in our current environment where we are NOT and will NOT BE shutdown.
From dictionary.com:
On the verge of: Close to, on the brink of, as in "I was on the verge of calling the doctor when he suddenly got better," or "Sara was on the verge of tears when she heard the news." This term uses verge in the sense of “the brink or border of something.”

The Big 12 was literally on the verge of cancelling the season. They voted. It could've happened. It still could happen yet should things go sideways. If you're telling yourself anything else you are lying to yourself.

"Schools that canceled too lazy to do healthcare part". Sure, Harvard is too lazy and too cheap and too stupid to do the healthcare part. Don't be a moron.

1597324109016.png
 

RxCowboy

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Risk and death are all things that are inherent in life. This decision is like the spongebob episode "indoors." We have to make the determination for ourselves if we are willing to live our lives or just attempt to protect ourselves all of that life. I would challenge you that life is worth the consequence of even death. This is truly a national phycological issue and dilemma that we all have as we educate our minds and learn more and more about risk and reward. We must, each, in a free society, determine the level of risk we are willing to take for that reward on ourselves. This doesn't mean we don't mitigate that risk as we can, but how much and what level of mitigation of risk are we willing to take on to be "safe" and how much of that effects others? Especially as that "safety" is mostly a falsehood and fallacy for us all because if Covid doesn't get us, a car wreak, violence, breathing in pollution, or just some other weird accident just might....no matter how much we mitigate life's dangerous world none of us get out of this thing alive...figure out what happens next and it will free you and those around up to live better with each breath. This doesn't mean we completely abandoned safety but we put it in balance with risk.
https://youtu.be/QbGU8CeCzfk?t=11
Safety is a fallacy, eh? I don't know where you live, but go to a large medical center in your area. Go to the COVID ward. Visit a COVID patient. Without a mask. Ask the patient to take their mask off. Invite them to cough on you. Stand close when they do it. Do all that and you'll convince me safety is just a fallacy and risk is just a part of life. You'll convince me that you're no more worried about COVID-19 than you a car wreck or violence or breathing pollution, etc. Go ahead, convince me. Take my challenge.
 

RxCowboy

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I think I've done that pretty extensively, I actually believe that they are safer in terms of their care playing football in the intense healthcare environment that they are placed in at Oklahoma State than they would be otherwise, thus to not allow them to play is, IMHO, worse for their mental and physical health than allowing it.
Your evidence to back this up is what, exactly?
 

Rack

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From the Big 10 announcement:
"“Our primary responsibility is to make the best possible decisions in the interest of our students, faculty and staff,” said Morton Schapiro, Chair of the Big Ten Council of Presidents/Chancellors and Northwestern University President."
I would submit that they didn't make that best possible decision.
 

RxCowboy

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I would submit that they didn't make that best possible decision.
Sure, because you're smarter and have more information available to you than all the experts and consults and university presidents and provosts who made that decision. Incidentally, the Ivy League did the same. Are you going to claim that Harvard, Yale, etc. are stupid?

This is a perfect example of confirmation bias, if it doesn't fit what you already think it must be rejected.
 

CocoCincinnati

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One thing I am surprised that they are not doing...at least to my knowledge is place family members together and don’t space them. By doing that you create even more distancing for others. I have 6 season tickets. Are they going to spread out my 6 tickets?
I agree it would make sensebut that would be a logistical nightmare for the school. Trying to figure who actually has been quarantined together, who hasn't, and then having to readjust the spacing pattern every time you have people grouped together.