If Football Is Cancelled

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TheMonkey

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Just for a 'fun' view of history, the reason the Spanish Flu didn't dismantle western civilization was that it was fast. COVID isn't. It's a slow burn. We've obviously improved our treatments since the beginning of the outbreak, and maybe we'll even get a vaccine. But maybe we won't. This might just stick around for two or three or five years. Death by a thousand cuts.

Dan Carlin (history podcast, Hardcore History, check it out!), posed a question once on if you had to pick a war to fight in, probably last on everyone's list is World War I. Trench warfare was a slow psychological torture. While ancient battles were horrifying and bloody, they were also quick. Boom, one day and you're done. WWI is day after day after day of fear and panic. It fucks with you after awhile. They called it shell shock. Continuous exposure to disease and death.

I guess what I'm saying is that I get where the "let's just get this over with" crowd is coming from. I don't think it comes from a wish to see death as it is sometimes portrayed. I think it's a genuine desire to stop the suffering. The actual question is, would it?
That’s fair. And I agree Dan Carlin’s Hardcore History is amazing. There are still many reasons to not release the kraken on our population. Overwhelming our healthcare system is just one.
 
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Yep. We need more of this. Rx is spending too much time twiddling his thumbs.
View attachment 84981
Just for a 'fun' view of history, the reason the Spanish Flu didn't dismantle western civilization was that it was fast. COVID isn't. It's a slow burn. We've obviously improved our treatments since the beginning of the outbreak, and maybe we'll even get a vaccine. But maybe we won't. This might just stick around for two or three or five years. Death by a thousand cuts.

Dan Carlin (history podcast, Hardcore History, check it out!), posed a question once on if you had to pick a war to fight in, probably last on everyone's list is World War I. Trench warfare was a slow psychological torture. While ancient battles were horrifying and bloody, they were also quick. Boom, one day and you're done. WWI is day after day after day of fear and panic. It fucks with you after awhile. They called it shell shock. Continuous exposure to disease and death.

I guess what I'm saying is that I get where the "let's just get this over with" crowd is coming from. I don't think it comes from a wish to see death as it is sometimes portrayed. I think it's a genuine desire to stop the suffering. The actual question is, would it?
Dan’s description of the Somme is an experience


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

RxCowboy

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Just for a 'fun' view of history, the reason the Spanish Flu didn't dismantle western civilization was that it was fast. COVID isn't. It's a slow burn. We've obviously improved our treatments since the beginning of the outbreak, and maybe we'll even get a vaccine. But maybe we won't. This might just stick around for two or three or five years. Death by a thousand cuts.

Dan Carlin (history podcast, Hardcore History, check it out!), posed a question once on if you had to pick a war to fight in, probably last on everyone's list is World War I. Trench warfare was a slow psychological torture. While ancient battles were horrifying and bloody, they were also quick. Boom, one day and you're done. WWI is day after day after day of fear and panic. It fucks with you after awhile. They called it shell shock. Continuous exposure to disease and death.

I guess what I'm saying is that I get where the "let's just get this over with" crowd is coming from. I don't think it comes from a wish to see death as it is sometimes portrayed. I think it's a genuine desire to stop the suffering. The actual question is, would it?
Well, that and Western civilization was pretty well already dismantled by the Great War. I'll check out the podcast. I watched Apocalypse WWI and it was pretty good.
 

Rack

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While I understand the comparisons to war, those are dramatically different than pandemics. Not sure why, but they upset me because they further highlight our division as a society. Likely because pandemics are a mutually invested investment fighting the same thing while wars have two sides...pandemics should only have one but our society has made the response political and for political gain and / or loss. It saddens me. Anyway, the horrible, rotten, mixed up year that is 2020 continues...My only hope is that each of us can see a light at the end of the tunnel and actively search for blessings in our lives. It's been tough for me personally because of radical changes in my life....and not all or even mostly related to the pandemic. God Speed to you all today. Have a blessed and positive journey.

Urban, no one wants to see suffering, the problem with the different perceptions is that many of us see such a political / manufactured piece of this...granted I don't think many see it as totally that...but the political use of it is slickening and causes the confusion and various points of view on it.
 

RxCowboy

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While I understand the comparisons to war, those are dramatically different than pandemics.
You aren't following. The question was, "why didn't Western civilization shut down because of the 1918 Spanish flu epidemic." The answers:

1. Western civilization was already dismantled by WWI, and
2. The pandemic spread and was over very fast.
 

Binman4OSU

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7. This has been politicized from the outset, and people, like you, have staked their worldviews in their positions. So new information is minimized, ignored, abandoned, etc. to make it fit their preconceptions. This is altogether unlike the response to, say, 2009 H1N1.
.
Like the fact that people are still quoting Fauci from back in Feb and March and claiming he said those things then so they are still true today.

RX and I have been at conflict on almost all political ideals for many years and butted heads over them but couldn't be more on the same page with COVID.
 

Rack

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You aren't following. The question was, "why didn't Western civilization shut down because of the 1918 Spanish flu epidemic." The answers:

1. Western civilization was already dismantled by WWI, and
2. The pandemic spread and was over very fast.
Rx - it's tiresome...I'm tired...I'm sure you are...but how is preaching, for either of us, on this message board helping to heal people...1 from the virus...2 with their own personal mental health...3 politically? Edit, I looked at your post on the pandemic non-political board and it was very good...thank you for that.

But, just to add to the fray (a waste of time but I can't seem to resist, a weakness), he was saying that this was semi worse because in his words it's a "slow burn." I submit that it's NOT in any way possible, "worse" it's just being politicized to the hilt and shoved in our faces daily and many, if not most Americans, including myself, are at least somewhat addicted to the "fear porn" of it all(Dave Ramsey's' term not mine). This is being propagated by national and even "health" media on an hourly if not by the minute, basis. It's NOT that it's a "slow burn," it's that it's being over burned in comparison to the size of the problem. This to the point of falsified claims and numbers and all sorts of other corruption...and the nationalization of it, the cancelation of football, unwillingness to innovate and move on by 1/2 of society are all side effects of the "fear porn" addiction. You would think true "science "would support innovation and moving on but it seems to want to lock people in their homes in fear. That's because the "science" is tainted and vastly exaggerated to create more fear.

The problem with these two camps of over reactors and under reactors is that we cannot come together because we have vastly different world views. Neither solves the problems...

Btw, the main problems in America RIGHT NOW are:

1. The media created and constantly fed political divide on basically everything (not just Covid)
2. The pandemic
3. Addiction to the media created "news" about the pandemic
4. Ultimately ATTEMPTS OF control of the masses based on #'s 1-3
6. Schools being shut down
7. Airlines being shut down
8. Overall Job losses due to the above
9. Mental anguish
10. A false sense that we (not God) are in control of everything that occurs (actually this is #1 in my world view).
11. Oh, I forgot, a perceived and overblown racial divide created and propagated by more "fear porn".

The blessings are: (and many more than these)

1. We, for the most part, have the luxury to sit and type on message boards.
2. We have science and data to help us, even if it's biased for whatever purpose it is
3. Most of us have food on our tables and roofs over our heads.
4. We still have freedom, as of today, to disagree on the right actions to take
 
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Birry

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CTE R0=0
COVID-19 R0>1

Why is this so difficult to understand that this is a contagious, infectious disease?
A few questions that you've so far refused to answer, but I'm still curious, so I'll keep asking.
1. What R0 is acceptable to you?
2. How many lives are you willing to ruin to reach your R0 goal?
3. Do you believe playing football games will generate a net increase in covid cases compared to not playing football games, and if so, what proof do you have to support your belief?
 
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UrbanCowboy1

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That’s fair. And I agree Dan Carlin’s Hardcore History is amazing. There are still many reasons to not release the kraken on our population. Overwhelming our healthcare system is just one.
I'm right there with you, you just happened to be the last post before I got on my soap box, lol.

BTW, love that there are few of us Dan Carlin fans! I'm starting a road trip to Oklahoma from Arizona tonight with my wife and son, I'm really looking forward to forcing them to listen to his new series on the rise of Japan. Will probably put them both to sleep, but I just get so into them.
 

UrbanCowboy1

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Well, that and Western civilization was pretty well already dismantled by the Great War. I'll check out the podcast. I watched Apocalypse WWI and it was pretty good.
You are going to LOVE it. I think you have to pay a very small fee for his older episodes (like a dollar, seriously), but he did a five part series on WWI, called Blueprint for Armageddon. The world that humans had built up for three centuries was unmade in five years.
 

UrbanCowboy1

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Urban, no one wants to see suffering, the problem with the different perceptions is that many of us see such a political / manufactured piece of this...granted I don't think many see it as totally that...but the political use of it is slickening and causes the confusion and various points of view on it.
Um, I know that. That's what I said. Or are you agreeing with me? :confused:
 

UrbanCowboy1

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Like the fact that people are still quoting Fauci from back in Feb and March and claiming he said those things then so they are still true today.

RX and I have been at conflict on almost all political ideals for many years and butted heads over them but couldn't be more on the same page with COVID.
We're going to have to update Shakespeare: "War pandemics make strange bedfellows".
 

Rack

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Um, I know that. That's what I said. Or are you agreeing with me? :confused:
I'm not sure, I’m bothered by comparisons of so much worse Old world events to a nearly 97-9% survivability virus. God help us if we ever have a real war again...we will instantly know the difference then. Sorry it’s just a major pet peeve for me to even hear mentioned covid and WWI or II in the same paragraph. . So please please for the love of all our brave forefathers stop it with those crazy unholy comparisons.
 
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TheMonkey

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I'm not sure, I’m bothered by comparisons of so much worse Old world events to a nearly 97-9% survivability virus. God help us if we ever have a real war again...we will instantly know the difference then. Sorry it’s just a major pet peeve for me to even hear mentioned covid and WWI or II in the same paragraph. . So please please for the love of all our brave forefathers stop it with those crazy unholy comparisons.
FYI - 99% of US citizens survived WWI.

I realize there are other aspects which do not compare to war. So, I agree comparing the virus to global war isn’t apples to apples. Still, survival rate isn’t the only problem with this virus, just like it wasn’t the only problem with WWI.

I think the focus on survival rates is part of the reason it is so deceptively dangerous. We don’t have natural immunity or a vaccine. This thing spreads like wildfire. It is novel, so we still don’t fully understand it or how to best treat for it. It mutates. And it is plenty deadly, despite it being less deadly to most of the young And healthy.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/so-how-deadly-is-covid-19/
But from my perspective as an emergency physician, precisely how deadly the virus is doesn’t matter right now, because the virus is deadly enough. I’ve stood on the front lines of the pandemic, and I know that this virus is no house cat. Every day for weeks, my colleagues and I have faced wave after wave of COVID patients in their 30s, 50s or 80s, many of them extraordinarily ill. Some of these people have died. Its virulence is astonishing, at least among hospitalized patients. Experienced physicians know that this is nothing like the flu.
We know enough to understand the dangerous potential that this virus still holds. We know that the coronavirus spreads twice as fast as flu, or faster, and that if left unchecked it has the potential to race through populations like wildfire. We know that viral “dose” likely influences illness severity, which masks and social distancing can mitigate. We know that a large majority of people likely remain unexposed and susceptible. If infected, we know some of these people will die.
 

OSU79

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FYI - 99% of US citizens survived WWI.

I realize there are other aspects which do not compare to war. So, I agree comparing the virus to global war isn’t apples to apples. Still, survival rate isn’t the only problem with this virus, just like it wasn’t the only problem with WWI.

I think the focus on survival rates is part of the reason it is so deceptively dangerous. We don’t have natural immunity or a vaccine. This thing spreads like wildfire. It is novel, so we still don’t fully understand it or how to best treat for it. It mutates. And it is plenty deadly, despite it being less deadly to most of the young And healthy.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/so-how-deadly-is-covid-19/
Unless WWI was the Pinto.....