Inviting Former Players Back

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Nov 16, 2013
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tractor
#21
Relationships are important and have to be cultivated. How do you not have a continual relationship with the men that paved the path to your success? Gundy does not need to be fired becsuse of this, but he does need to get his head out of his rear and interact
 
Feb 15, 2017
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#22
26-45 doesnt matter?? ...yeah I call BS if that's true how come we're 1-5 against baylor since 2014? We're also 3-3 against TCU since 2014 as well so keep on making excuses for Gundy and his recruiting. Our recruiting is mediocre and needs improvement.
Well the 3-3 vs TCU supports my position ! Thanks !
How about 6-2 vs Ut to counter your 1-5 vs Baylor.

Mostly Top 20 classes result in Top 20 finishes. But the rest . . not much correlation.

If you really think based on HS tape of 3,000 kids that a recruiting service can give one guy a 0.845 and another guy a 0.850 and there's really a difference in their ability ? That's BS. 26-45 are the same ranking.
 
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Feb 24, 2020
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oklahoma
#23
Well the 3-3 vs TCU supports my position ! Thanks !
How about 6-2 vs Ut to counter your 1-5 vs Baylor.

Mostly Top 20 classes result in Top 20 finishes. But the rest . . not much correlation.

If you really think based on HS tape of 3,000 kids that a recruiting service can give one guy a 0.845 and another guy a 0.850 and there's really a difference in their ability ? That's BS. 26-45 are the same ranking.
Being 3-3 doesn’t support anything...it means it just a moot point....You forgot to add 2-13 against OU since we’re being transparent. A top 30 class is better than a top 45-50 class and you’re drunk if you think otherwise. Like I said keep making excuses for Gundy...it’s laughable. If haven’t noticed, it’s starting to catch up to our play.

Since 2017:
25-14 W-L overall record
14-13 conference game record (Barely .500)
12-7 home overall record
7-7 at home against conference opponents
Haven’t won an opening Conference game since 2015.

There’s a trend if haven’t noticed. Games we used to win, aren’t happening anymore and you know why....everyone has caught up...hell Texas Tech has whipped our ass 2 years straight..but hey keep making excuses for this man.
 
Jun 16, 2020
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#24
Well the 3-3 vs TCU supports my position ! Thanks !
How about 6-2 vs Ut to counter your 1-5 vs Baylor.

Mostly Top 20 classes result in Top 20 finishes. But the rest . . not much correlation.

If you really think based on HS tape of 3,000 kids that a recruiting service can give one guy a 0.845 and another guy a 0.850 and there's really a difference in their ability ? That's BS. 26-45 are the same ranking.
so let me get this straight recruiting rankings are valid 1-25 then they lose their validity 25-45 (where we are ranked) then they gain validity again 46-120?? You can’t make this type of stuff up lmfao
 

OSUMIKE17

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Apr 11, 2009
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#25
Oklahoma State Football does a horrible job selling its program. Gundy and OSU try to sell recruits on this so called "cowboy culture", which to me is another term for family atmosphere. In reality, Gundy isn't really selling anything special. Every D1 program preaches a family style atmosphere. Some schools show it better than others, but the mass majority of D1 schools have a solid family atmosphere, culture whatever you want to call it.
In the past couple years, the program has made massive strides on social media selling the different aspects of the program from the facilities, to the players, to education, to gameday atmosphere, etc.

What else do you propose they sell?
We also do a piss poor job or marketing our players whether past or present as well as the program in general. Gavin Lang, who's in charge of football struggles to put together a decent campaign for our players when we're up for major awards, and I don't know why. You see some of these school do a great job telling the story of their players, telling the story of their programs. Just look at the social accounts from other schools across the country. I can tell OSU softball does tremendous job telling the story of their program as well as their athletes as do tennis, soccer, wrestling, and especially baseball.
As far as marketing present players, you’re completely off base here. Or you’re simply not on social media. All offseason they have been pushing the different units, different players up for pre-season award lists including Chuba, Tylan, and KHP.
When it comes to recruiting...truth is Gundy is lazy as hell. He doesn't really stick his teeth and grind for recruits. Recruiting is hard and takes work, something Gundy doesn't seem willing to do. The get the best players, you have work your ass off and get them. Gundy has mention many times it's too hard to recruit to Stillwater, 4-5 star players aren't interested or don't want to come here. It's a grind to get their signature, and truth is you'll have to recruit them all the way to signing day. Gundy would rather recruit against the Ivy league, FCS, or group of 5 schools b/c well the competition is easier.
This is ridiculous for a number of reasons, namely that OSU does more hard work evaluating players than virtually any other school out there. Gundy also wins his fair share of recruiting battles against TCU, Baylor, etc. Saying he would rather recruit against the FCS is simply nonsense...especially when you look at the majority of offers OSU currently has out there and who else has offered them.
26-45 doesnt matter?? ...yeah I call BS if that's true how come we're 1-5 against baylor since 2014? We're also 3-3 against TCU since 2014 as well so keep on making excuses for Gundy and his recruiting. Our recruiting is mediocre and needs improvement.
Why are you picking since 2014 for those stats? Possibly because if you picked since 2012 when TCU entered the Big 12, we are 5-3 against them? Want to check OSU’s overall Big 12 record since 2012 versus TCU’s overall record during that same time frame as well? I doubt it.

And Baylor? You’re including when Briles was there cheating his ass off? Okay.

And no, the rankings past the top 100 kids or so don’t matter because they are heavily subjective based on which camps kids can or can’t attend and which recruiting services are actually able to evaluate them. It’s why every single time a re-evaluation of an OSU class is done by a recruiting site, the class is ALWAYS ranked higher than it was initially.
 

OSUMIKE17

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#26
Being 3-3 doesn’t support anything...it means it just a moot point....You forgot to add 2-13 against OU since we’re being transparent. A top 30 class is better than a top 45-50 class and you’re drunk if you think otherwise. Like I said keep making excuses for Gundy...it’s laughable. If haven’t noticed, it’s starting to catch up to our play.

Since 2017:
25-14 W-L overall record
14-13 conference game record (Barely .500)
12-7 home overall record
7-7 at home against conference opponents
Haven’t won an opening Conference game since 2015.

There’s a trend if haven’t noticed. Games we used to win, aren’t happening anymore and you know why....everyone has caught up...hell Texas Tech has whipped our ass 2 years straight..but hey keep making excuses for this man.
The trend there is having a first year starting QB in two of those three years as well as revamping the entire defensive scheme in the middle.

If there has been a recruiting fault, it was not getting a solid QB replacement between Rudolph and Sanders. That much is true.
 
Feb 24, 2020
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oklahoma
#27
In the past couple years, the program has made massive strides on social media selling the different aspects of the program from the facilities, to the players, to education, to gameday atmosphere, etc.

What else do you propose they sell?

As far as marketing present players, you’re completely off base here. Or you’re simply not on social media. All offseason they have been pushing the different units, different players up for pre-season award lists including Chuba, Tylan, and KHP.

This is ridiculous for a number of reasons, namely that OSU does more hard work evaluating players than virtually any other school out there. Gundy also wins his fair share of recruiting battles against TCU, Baylor, etc. Saying he would rather recruit against the FCS is simply nonsense...especially when you look at the majority of offers OSU currently has out there and who else has offered them.

Why are you picking since 2014 for those stats? Possibly because if you picked since 2012 when TCU entered the Big 12, we are 5-3 against them? Want to check OSU’s overall Big 12 record since 2012 versus TCU’s overall record during that same time frame as well? I doubt it.

And Baylor? You’re including when Briles was there cheating his ass off? Okay.

And no, the rankings past the top 100 kids or so don’t matter because they are heavily subjective based on which camps kids can or can’t attend and which recruiting services are actually able to evaluate them. It’s why every single time a re-evaluation of an OSU class is done by a recruiting site, the class is ALWAYS ranked higher than it was initially.
If you think we've made strides the past couple years...I mean good for you!! I would call them "major"...I see other programs telling the story of their respective programs. I mean look at the team down south, I would love to see half of that kind of creativity. You're not going to get that with Gavin at the Helm. Might wanna let Courtney Bay take over football....she does a hell of a job promoting and telling the story of cowboy basketball. The SID for softball...now works at Texas did a wonderful job selling and promoting Cowgirl softball. If you think football is compared to the work they've done...I don't what to tell you lol!!

In terms of marketing players....those players had to "BEG" to get highlights done for their position groups. I can easily pull out the receipts of them bitching and moaning how jealous other schools get video highlights and they don't. When you're players complain about it on twitter, it's an indicator so NO I'm not off base. You're just seem satisfied with the bare minimum.

Gundy barely win his share of recruiting battles against TCU, and Baylor. If that's the barometer of our program, its no wonder Gundy hasnt won a conference title since 2011. I'd like to see more recruiting battles against heavy hitters. If Mack Brown can get it done at UNC, don't see why not Gundy. I don't think asking for a top 25 recruiting with his success over the years is too much, but then again maybe it is.

In terms of picking 2014...its a personal choice. If you want to rip me go ahead it's fair... That's when things started making a turn of projection of the program IMO. In terms of Baylor...I'm curious how were they cheating?? Maybe I missed the NCAA laying the hammer or giving them postseason ban or reduction of scholarships... Last time I checked they weren't sanctioned by the NCAA?? Briles had players who were committing rape and charged although Oakman was acquitted...I haven't anything regarding to illegal recruiting, or ineligible players ...Baylor been waxing our ass since Briles been fired so what's your excuse?

And now you're taking the Robert Allen approach. Anything pass 100 doesn't matter. Essentially dismissing rankings...GTFOH....those kids in the 100-200 likely have major D1 offers compare to the guys we getting with Ivy league, SMU, Tulane, UNT offers. Rankings are important IMO... Like I said, if you're happy with the recruiting, good for you. I'm not and I'll continue to voice it.
 
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Feb 24, 2020
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oklahoma
#28
The trend there is having a first year starting QB in two of those three years as well as revamping the entire defensive scheme in the middle.

If there has been a recruiting fault, it was not getting a solid QB replacement between Rudolph and Sanders. That much is true.
Right....keep telling yourself that!! Blame it on the scheme. The scheme isn't that different. 2017 and 2018 were the same scheme. 2019 was literally the same concepts with the exception of the Leo position, turns into another LB creating a 3-3-5 depending the situation. Not like he revamped the defense completely, just add a couple new wrinkles. The "star" position is now an actual secondary player instead of a hybrid LB/S.

Not just recruiting QBs...recruiting on the OL, and the entire defense. There's a reason why we rely on so many grad transfers at the CB position...might wanna take a guess?? Our LB recruiting has been abysmal. I will say the only decent we get on the defense is the DL, but they get better coaching. Big fan of Joe Bob.
 
Feb 15, 2017
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#29
I’ll keep it simple:
Ranking 1-25 has shown to have a correlation between class rank and record/finish.
Rankings 26-45 don’t show much correlation between rank/finish WITHIN THAT GROUP

Same for 46-75 and 76+, not much differentiation within that group.

Logical because ranking the top 600 kids is easier than ranking the next 600 kids.
They can distinguish between a 0.9 and a 0.85 kid but 0.85 and 0.845 is no difference

Hopefully you can follow that
 
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Feb 15, 2017
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#30
Same thing on the school yard- best 3-4 players are known by all and picked first.
After that, not much difference so you pick your buddies.
 
Feb 24, 2020
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oklahoma
#31
I’ll keep it simple:
Ranking 1-25 has shown to have a correlation between class rank and record/finish.
Rankings 26-45 don’t show much correlation between rank/finish WITHIN THAT GROUP

Same for 46-75 and 76+, not much differentiation within that group.

Logical because ranking the top 600 kids is easier than ranking the next 600 kids.
They can distinguish between a 0.9 and a 0.85 kid but 0.85 and 0.845 is no difference

Hopefully you can follow that
When was the last time we were ranked in the top 25 in recruiting???? I'll wait...but keep touting those top 50 classes and we'll keep winning 7-9 games. I'd rather win championships but you're probably happy going 6-6 and going to a bowl games, which everyone goes to nowadays .
 
Jun 16, 2020
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Atlanta
#33
Gundy doesn't enjoy recruiting, hates interacting with the media and doesn't like sucking up to big donors. I like Gundy and hope he rallies through this, but one of these days it would be nice to get someone who doesn't dislike over half of his job.
maybe he should go coach in the pros that would alleviate some of those pain points.
 
Nov 14, 2010
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#34
Gundy doesn't enjoy recruiting, hates interacting with the media and doesn't like sucking up to big donors. I like Gundy and hope he rallies through this, but one of these days it would be nice to get someone who doesn't dislike over half of his job.
Add to that.....

He apparently doesnt enjoy spending time reaching out to Alumni and making them feel connected or taking the time to have much of a personal relationship with his current players on roster.

Hes won enough in a small pond like OSU to where hes been allowed to craft the perfect job for himself.

And....
Because we were 0-10-1 three decades ago, OSU, fans/admin etc... have enabled it

Many of us have been speakong to this very point for several years now

Its not that most of us ever wanted Gundy fired, its that we wanted him to not be so entitled to where he could get to the point he has gotten.

There are so many people that are so afraid that OSU is going to re enter the depths of College Football hell, that when anyone remotely criticizes anything about Gundy, they lose their mind.
 
Nov 14, 2010
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#35
I’ll keep it simple:
Ranking 1-25 has shown to have a correlation between class rank and record/finish.
Rankings 26-45 don’t show much correlation between rank/finish WITHIN THAT GROUP

Same for 46-75 and 76+, not much differentiation within that group.

Logical because ranking the top 600 kids is easier than ranking the next 600 kids.
They can distinguish between a 0.9 and a 0.85 kid but 0.85 and 0.845 is no difference

Hopefully you can follow that
So you're saying that, staistical data indicates that, getting consistent top 25 classes would correlate to more success for OSU?

Asking for top 25 finsishes consistently in recruiting is not too much to ask for.

I simply dont understand why some people, not neccessarily you, but some people, cant admit that our recruiting has to get better.

Some OSU fans are so scared of OSU becoming a perennial loser that Gundy has gotten and continues to get a pass on all this stuff.
 
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Nov 16, 2013
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tractor
#36
So you're saying that, staistical data indicates that, getting consistent top 25 classes would correlate to more success for OSU?

Asking for top 25 finsishes consistently in recruiting is not too much to ask for.

I simply dont understand why some people, not neccessarily you, but some people, cant admit that our recruiting has to get better.

Some OSU fans are so scared of OSU becoming a perennial loser that Gundy has gotten and continues to get a pass on all this stuff.
I'm not saying that you are wrong, not at all, we should have the better recruiting classes and probably should be better overall. The perennial loser fear comes from watching other programs when they replaced a coach that has been successful. Look at K-State, they had to bring Snyder back just to get back to mediocrity, look at Texas A&M after firing Slocum, look at the whorns after they ran off Mackovic Brown and their basketball coach Barnes.

Once in a while some like the goon squad gets lucky, but it doesn't happen often. The track record of replacing someone with above average results for perceived big time results does not always yield great results. Gundy has gotten his ass in a crack, he's got to pull it out, if he doesn't then he is done, if he does it is probably to fantastic results. Either way it's on Gundy and if he wants to coach bad enough and to do what has been asked then it will happen or we ask someone else to bring their talents to BPS.
 
Jun 16, 2020
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#37
I'm not saying that you are wrong, not at all, we should have the better recruiting classes and probably should be better overall. The perennial loser fear comes from watching other programs when they replaced a coach that has been successful. Look at K-State, they had to bring Snyder back just to get back to mediocrity, look at Texas A&M after firing Slocum, look at the whorns after they ran off Mackovic Brown and their basketball coach Barnes.

Once in a while some like the goon squad gets lucky, but it doesn't happen often. The track record of replacing someone with above average results for perceived big time results does not always yield great results. Gundy has gotten his ass in a crack, he's got to pull it out, if he doesn't then he is done, if he does it is probably to fantastic results. Either way it's on Gundy and if he wants to coach bad enough and to do what has been asked then it will happen or we ask someone else to bring their talents to BPS.
Jimbo Fisher also won a title after Bobby bowden stepped down at FSU.
 
Nov 14, 2010
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#38
I'm not saying that you are wrong, not at all, we should have the better recruiting classes and probably should be better overall. The perennial loser fear comes from watching other programs when they replaced a coach that has been successful. Look at K-State, they had to bring Snyder back just to get back to mediocrity, look at Texas A&M after firing Slocum, look at the whorns after they ran off Mackovic Brown and their basketball coach Barnes.

Once in a while some like the goon squad gets lucky, but it doesn't happen often. The track record of replacing someone with above average results for perceived big time results does not always yield great results. Gundy has gotten his ass in a crack, he's got to pull it out, if he doesn't then he is done, if he does it is probably to fantastic results. Either way it's on Gundy and if he wants to coach bad enough and to do what has been asked then it will happen or we ask someone else to bring their talents to BPS.
Agreed

Thats why I think its important to understand that the vast majority of OSU fans do not nor never did want Gundy fired.

But....what many of us did want was more accountablity in the areas that he was not performing up to the standard of which he should have been.

Such as....
recruiting
Being tone deaf to fans
Etc....

Now we find out that these issues that have seemed small enough to overlook, actually were and have been fairly far reaching and potentially very damaging.

Gundy finally got held accountable and it will be a very good thing for him.

It will force him to come out swinging, and he is really good when hes in that mode.

It so happens that its great timing with the type of team we have coming back.
 
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Nov 14, 2010
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#39
Jimbo Fisher also won a title after Bobby bowden stepped down at FSU.
Matt Ruhle
Chip Kelly
Kyle Whittingham at Utah would be good examples that compare fairly equally to OSU.

Thats just a few

But....
I think we all agree there is risk in coaching turnover....especially if its messy

I also think we all agree that, when coach Gundy is hungry he is by far the best option for OSU.

I think where guys like me split is when he acts entitled towards his job.

In that scenario he needs to be made to understand that there are a lot of really good hungry coaches that would love to have his job.

Competition is good in all aspects of life.

Theres a fine line between making someone comfortable enough to perform, but not so comfortable to where they get complacent or entitled.

Gundy hops over that line all the time and needs to be reeled back in.

Boone was able to do it, Holder tried with his recruiting comment, but OSU fans dont.

And...he knows it and has taken advantage of it by crafting a job in which he largely ignores the parts of his job that he doesnt want to deal with.

It took his players calling him out, piggy backed by Alumni chiming in, and a lot of OSU fans are losing their minds about that.

Admin at OSU saw a bigtime opportunity to reel Gundys ego back in and they ran with it.

Power to them for that.
 
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OrangeFan69

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#40
The relationship with ex players and program goes both ways. If Thurman wanted to be more a part of the program all he has to do is reach out. It’s not Mike Gundy’s job to kiss Thurman’s butt or any other alumni. The athletic dept. should be do a much better job of communicating with ex players.
You do know that Thurman Thomas is a NFL Hall of Fame Running Back, right?
In my mind; You want every Hall of Fame Running Back* associated with your program to be around your program as much as possible.


*Every Hall of Fame Running Back not named OJ Simpson.