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Is it Unpatriotic to be embarassed of your Country?

Discussion in 'World News & Politics' started by osupistolwhip, Feb 23, 2008.

  1. okpoke2003

    okpoke2003 Sheriff

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    Yeah I campaigned in Iowa, Kansas and South Carolina.

    Look at the income taxes. Check out what I said here..
    http://www.orangepower.com/showthread.php?p=485972&posted=1#post485972
     
  2. OSU Sig

    OSU Sig Federal Marshal

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    Wow, you actually traveled to 3 states? And how long were you in these states?

    Actually, I was hoping you could cite some facts. But since you can't, I'll provide them for you.

    DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
    Office of Public Affairs
    March 2, 2005
    FACT SHEET:
    Who Pays the Most Individual Income Taxes?
    The individual income tax is highly progressive – a small group of higher-income taxpayers pay most of the individual income taxes each year.

    • In 2002 the latest year of available data, the top 5 percent of taxpayers paid more than one-half (53.8 percent) of all individual income taxes, but reported roughly one-third (30.6 percent) of income.

    • The top 1 percent of taxpayers paid 33.7 percent of all individual income taxes in 2002. This group of taxpayers has paid more than 30 percent of individual income taxes since 1995. Moreover, since 1990 this group’s tax share has grown faster than their income share.

    • Taxpayers who rank in the top 50 percent of taxpayers by income pay virtually all individual income taxes. In all years since 1990, taxpayers in this group have paid over 94 percent of all individual income taxes. In 2000, 2001, and 2002, this group paid over 96 percent of the total. The President’s tax cuts have shifted a larger share of the individual income taxes paid to higher income taxpayers. In 2005, when most of the tax cut provisions are fully in effect (e.g., lower tax rates, the $1,000 child credit, marriage penalty relief), the projected tax share for lower-income taxpayers will fall, while the tax share for higher-income taxpayers will rise.

    • The share of taxes paid by the bottom 50 percent of taxpayers will fall from 4.1 percent to 3.6 percent.

    • The share of taxes paid by the top 1 percent of taxpayers will rise from 32.3 percent to 33.7 percent.

    • The average tax rate for the bottom 50 percent of taxpayers falls by 27 percent as compared to a 13 percent decline for taxpayers in the top 1 percent.

    Source: Internal Revenue Service. Percentiles based on adjusted gross income.
    Source: U.S. Treasury, Office of Tax Analysis.
    1Estimates of taxes paid ignore any behavioral responses to the
    tax cuts.
     
  3. okpoke2003

    okpoke2003 Sheriff

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    Yeah, I had choices to travel for work anyways and those happened to be states I could travel to if I wanted to go. I was there for a week or 2 each.

    Also, I have shown facts and numbers. 34% is not good enough in my opinion. In his plan the top 1% will take up 39.6%. I mean we all have our opinions and this is just what I think is right for our country.
     
  4. okstateguy987

    okstateguy987 Teamo Supremo

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    HAHAHA.

    I've been to every state in the union except for Alaska and Hawaii.

    My parents are not rich. They are average. However, they both have college degrees. My dad has a bachelor's, and my mom a master's. My dad came from a farm family. He had to build his life for himself. He road the schoolbus an hour every day to school when he was a kid. He had to help his dad on the farm. He made the decision to go to college (OSU), because he wanted to build a decent life for himself. He then had to find some way to pay for that college. Instead of going to Vietnam, he went into the Peace Core. Traveled to India and Ethiopia. He knows what poverty is, and he did not want to experience it.

    My mother came from a slightly more blessed situation, financially. Her dad was able to pay for all three of his kid's college degrees. But she also made the decision to go to college, and get a degree.

    Both of my parents then started saving for college, for me and my sister. They made very smart financial decisions. Combine that with mine and my sister's scholarships, and we have no problem paying for college. We'll both have respectable degrees when we graduate, and both be quite successful in the future. Also, my parent's will be able to retire and live very comfortably.

    And guess what, my family is middle class. AVERAGE AMERICAN.

    That's the great thing about America. You can rise from the bottom, and make it to the top. It's all based on decisions. Decisions YOU should make. NOT decisions the government makes for you.

    Socialism? I'll pass.
     
  5. okstateguy987

    okstateguy987 Teamo Supremo

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    Shhhhhh, he doesn't like facts. They only gets in the way of his idealistic motives...
     
  6. okpoke2003

    okpoke2003 Sheriff

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    Not everyone goes to college. If you don't go to college and decide to go straight to work you shouldn't be automatically lower middle class. Not everyone can afford to go to college. Thats why we need to give people breaks where everyone can go to college and everyone can afford to actually save money. Barack also has a plan which will give $4,000 a year for tuition if you do some community service.

    You seem to act like everyone was born with parents that had degrees. Not many parents actually do have degrees. Look at all the stats the middle class is getting smaller and smaller. Say what you will but it seems like you haven't seen what I have around the country.
     
  7. okstateguy987

    okstateguy987 Teamo Supremo

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    My dad's parents didn't have degrees. But you know what? He made the decision to go out and get one. He didn't go straight to work at Mcdonalds. He went to school, and financed it himself. Got the degree, and now he has a good job.

    And if you make the decision not to go to college, you should automatically be shunned. You've just made the worst decision of your life. EVERYONE knows you need a degree to go anywhere in the world today. ANYONE can get into college, if they really want to. All it takes is some good grades, some scholarships, and some student loans. People who decide not to go to college, are the people who slacked in high school, and didn't give a crap about their lives. That's what I know from experience. People who decide not to go to college, are the people who contribute nothing to society. And you want to reward them? And then punish those who did go to college, and sought success, by slapping larger and larger taxes on them?

    You have a very warped view of success, and what works versus what doesn't work.

    You seem to think giving hand-outs is going to motivate people to do what they should do. WRONG. That's never worked.
     
  8. okpoke2003

    okpoke2003 Sheriff

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    Exactly he wasn't born in the 90's. Kids now if your lower middle class you have a tough time affording college and after you get out of college your still paying your student loans. You shouldn't be paying for a mortgage before you even have a home. Barack and Michelle just paid their loans off a couple of years ago. At one time parents could afford to send their kids off to college without selling their arms and legs. You don't consider what people are going through in this country and that last post just proves it.

    What if a kid only has 1 parent which is very common these days. That parent is automatically broke. That shouldn't happen. How is the mother working 2 jobs to put food on the table suppose to send her kid to college? Your family seems like a great family. The perfect family. 2 parents 2 degrees=money. Walk a day in the shoes of the kids that does not have a parent with a degree or only has 1 parent with a degree. You haven't. So how can you speak for those people? I have met those people. I am one of those people. I have been very lucky in my life to have 2 parents that love me and support me however they can. Not everyone has that and I have realized that. I have had a lot of breaks in my life that has helped me get where I am but people that don't have the support system I have can't take advantage of these breaks. That is why I have done everything I can to make sure that this cycle of leaving the bottom 25% out is over.
     
  9. OSU Sig

    OSU Sig Federal Marshal

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    So you want to redistribute the wealth so that those choose not to go to college can have more money? This is obama's plan? That'll sell well.

    First of all, anyone in this state who wants to go to college can do so. Further, you're asserting the government is the answer to anyone's station in life. You're all messed up. Get out of your idealistic world. This world does not revolve around college degreed people. College is not for every person and this country could not exist without the millions who make it happen each day. I'm talking manufacturing, farming, services and so on. You are way out of touch with the world and its showing.

    You seem to not understand that it's the drive of the American people to succeed in spite of their circumstances that has put this country on top. Take a break from sawing the limb you're standing on and explain to us what you think the middle class is. In other words, what income levels make up the middle class?
     
  10. okpoke2003

    okpoke2003 Sheriff

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    If you would like get on his site and check out his plan. But I'll try to translate it. It is kinda hard to translate it to you conservatives.

    Obama's plan is to keep jobs in the USA and not overseas. Which raises pay here in the USA because we are no longer paying people in Indonesia for a box of cracker jacks.

    Okay, now I am very familiar with our states plan to send underprivileged kids to college. And yes it might help the very underprivileged but it doesn't help everyone. We are not passing out degrees here you have to pay. In most of the programs you can get in you still have to pay. The average college student at Oklahoma State will be paying years and years from now. We must cut that down. In Obama's plan he will cut the cost $16,000 for 4 years. Every college student I know complains about his/her student loans.

    I completely understand the drive to succeed in this country. Because I have lived it. Our school system is telling kids at the start that they can't succeed. Have you seen the schools in the inner city? Were talking 1 book every 4 or 5 kids. We can no longer look at the inner city youth and say thats someone else's problem. Because its our problem. We got to build new schools and just plain rebuild our inner city. Kids in this country need a reason to think that just because they aren't born in the perfect family that they have a shot. These kids nor their parents don't know about plans like we have in place because they aren't really told to us. And if this parent is working 2 jobs they don't have time to even talk to their kids. Not only do we need to rebuild our inner cities we have to make sure our parents in this country is involved to turn the video game off or turn the TV off and put a book in their face or even a basketball. Just something to get their mind and body active.

    Barack has said change doesn't start from the top down it starts from the bottom up and thats exactly right and the people of this country have spoken and they want this change. They know what this change represents and they know whats at stake. 55% of our country isn't delusional or is it? Because you must be right on whatever you say.

    Middle class ranges from $25,000-$75,000 in my opinion.
     
  11. PhiloBeddoe

    PhiloBeddoe Cowboy

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    So she was not proud of the political process when her husband got elected to the Senate?
     
  12. okstateguy987

    okstateguy987 Teamo Supremo

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    Paying for college 40 years ago was a LOT harder than it is today. My dad's parents were farmers. He had three siblings. They had no money for their children to go to college. But you know what? All of them found a way to get to college, and get a degree, and all of them now live decent, middle, and upper middle class lives.

    ANYONE can go to college today, be it community college, a state university, or an Ivy League school. ANYONE can get in. The government already does plenty to help those that want a degree.

    Hand-outs are not the answer.

    Socialism doesn't work.
     
  13. ostatedan

    ostatedan Sheriff

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    I wish people would study what "socialism" actually is before spewing political rhetoric. Socialism is when the government controls every aspect of production in the country, including all goods and services and sets all prices. Russia was socialist. The government directed which companies would produce what goods and sell them at what price. This is socialism.

    A democratic government that uses taxes to provide schools, roads, hospitals, and social programs that support health, education and public safety are not socialist. These are public goods. Democrats are not in favor of directing prices of goods and services throughout the economy. Calling them "socialist" is wrong.

    So next time you want to use the term socialist against a democrat, know you are wrong. There is plenty of room to debate what level of public services the government should provide, but no politician is advocating socialism. It be just as fallacious to call Republicans "facist" as i'm sure you conservatives don't enjoy. This over the top rhetoric is not only annoying, it is flat out wrong.
     
  14. osupistolwhip

    osupistolwhip Deputy

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    On what grounds do you call us the freest nation on earth?

    I don't think we could have claimed that title before the Bush presidency. We certainly cant now.

    The Economist did a ranking they called the democracy index based on a number of factors.

    We came in 17th.

    I'm not saying the Economist gets to be the gold standard - its just one representation. I'm just saying that to claim we are the freest nation or earth you need some kind of evidence.
     
  15. okstateguy987

    okstateguy987 Teamo Supremo

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    Tell me what nation has more freedoms than the US.
     
  16. GodsPeace

    GodsPeace Joshua 1:9

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    In some European nations there is no legal drinking age, and drugs aren't illegal.

    I will stay with the American system that allows me to own a gun to fend off the drunks and the druggies trying to get into my house.;)
     
  17. okpoke2003

    okpoke2003 Sheriff

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    No. Because the people around the country weren't rallying like they are now. It's really been special to see someone go from losing by 30 in the national polls to actually be winning by as much as 14 in one poll. To even accuse someone who is a presidential front runner of not being patriotic is ridiculous. We need to focus on the issues not some peoples false allegations.
     
  18. GodsPeace

    GodsPeace Joshua 1:9

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    So you really love John McCain then huh?

    He has been left for dead practically his entire life, and in this campaign. He is still there, and I promise you will give Hillary or Obama a run for their money.

    Personally, though, this stuff about Obama's wife is a nonstarter and hardly the place I would go after them. Too stupid to attack and too easy to defend. I think she probably didn't mean it how it sounds out of context. I will give her that.

    I would go after him on the experience issue and actual policies. McCain CAN and SHOULD win a debate on issues.
     
  19. okpoke2003

    okpoke2003 Sheriff

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    I was actually talking about the primaries. I respect Mccain and I know for a fact he will give both candidates a fight. And it will be a very close general election. That is what it should be about, the issues and the best man/woman will win.
     
  20. GodsPeace

    GodsPeace Joshua 1:9

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    Amen.;)
     

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