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Major world news - Osama Bin Laden Thread

Discussion in 'World News & Politics' started by Chairman of the Board, May 1, 2011.

  1. benjamins

    benjamins Cowboy

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    The buck stops with him...if the mission had failed, or bin Laden wasn't in the house, or if American lives were lost and bin Laden wasn't captured or killed, who do you think would have taken the flack? The POTUS. Also, if he hadn't OK'ed the mission, and it became public, he would have been roasted by the media and the public.

    If Bush was POTUS and had made the same decision, I would have lauded his courage for risking his political future on capturing/killing bin Laden.
  2. Socrates

    Socrates Wrangler

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    We obviously each have a different idea of what the author meant, hence the disagreement. I just feel that it is important to acknowledge that at some point there is going to have to be an end to this violence and it won't and can't be through an act of violence.

    "I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that."
    --Martin Luther King, Jr.
  3. cowboyethics344

    cowboyethics344 Cowboy

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    No bush would have got the blame. Bush gets the blame for all wrong that happens in this country and no credit for any of his good policies. The scary thought is what OBAMA would not have done if he was in the white house during the bush tenure.
  4. cowboyethics344

    cowboyethics344 Cowboy

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    Re: Major world news

    He sure did not give bush any credit and neither would any other democrat. Of course, this would counter their political agenda. None the less, bushes ant-terrorism campaign will get swept under the rug while everyone including the media praises Obama for astute decision making skills.
  5. steross

    A/V Subscriber steross OSU fan in need of hyper loop

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    Yea, I somewhat disagree with that too. Do you honestly think if we unilaterally quit committing violent acts such as killing the terrorist leaders that the violence will end? The MLK quote is nice, but how exactly do we love the hate out of people who do not feel we should be on this earth? Those are not rhetorical, I do hate violence. But, this problem is more vexing than most. I just don't see our enemy being pacified with love.

    In my mind, it is not that simple. The only way to end this violence is to get rid of the repressive governments in that region that create the conditions that fuel this hatred. As we are seeing now, getting rid of those type of governments is unfortunately often a violent endeavor and not always successful.
  6. steross

    A/V Subscriber steross OSU fan in need of hyper loop

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    Just stop. There have been very few blaming Bush and praising Obama on these issues. The only ones doing that or the opposite are the hyperpartisans such as you sound with this blather. The vast majority of us are just happy that something successful for our nation has happened instead of blaming/crediting a stupid political party.
  7. cowboyethics344

    cowboyethics344 Cowboy

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    They can't blame bush because the mission was a success. Don't kid yourself the media would twist it his way if it went bad.
  8. steross

    A/V Subscriber steross OSU fan in need of hyper loop

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    Right. Like they blamed Ford for Operation Eagle Claw.:rolleyes:

    Must be tough always being the victim.
  9. cowboyethics344

    cowboyethics344 Cowboy

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    I am not touting him as a great American Hero, but the man is probably the most hated man around the world. The media hates him along with the rest of the world. No one in the media even gave him an ounce of credit for his policies that led to Osama's death. I will give Obama credit for strategically planning the assassination but will others even give Bush any credit....doubtful.

    I love how the mention of bush being credited for any type of success is countered with "lets not talk about political parties and come together as Americans". Basically, lets not talk about bush and let this blow over for a while so the media can pump Obama for his next election.
  10. steross

    A/V Subscriber steross OSU fan in need of hyper loop

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    Bush has been out of office for over two years. I don't know if he deserves "credit" or not. At this point, why does that even matter. I left Afganistan 8 years ago, maybe I should get some credit too. Honestly,everything you are saying just shows that you are a hopeless partisan. I'm not even an Obama fan and didn't vote for him. But I don't think this is for or against Bush. He is the ex-president. He has been done a long time. I'll say it again, must be tough always being the victim.
  11. Socrates

    Socrates Wrangler

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    I can't sit here and say that I have an answer to the problem; of course I don't. What I can say, however, is that it is vitally important that a dialogue continues between all viewpoints. I honestly appreciate your response. Good stuff.
  12. steross

    A/V Subscriber steross OSU fan in need of hyper loop

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    :cheers:
  13. ostatexander

    ostatexander Wrangler

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    I agree with the first part of the MLK quote. About not rejoicing over someones death. Bin Laden deserved to die. Of that there is no doubt. I am glad he is dead. But I think it was a sad day for Americans to see crowds dancing in the streets waving flags celebrating someones death. I remember seeing the same thing but in the middle east when the towers came down...
  14. RxCowboy

    A/V Subscriber RxCowboy Has no Rx for his orange obsession.

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    We know what he meant. He meant to look down his nose at people who were celebrating. It's self-righteous BS.

    Total BS. There's nothing we can do to end the violence when there are people who are committed to our destruction, and there is no negotiating with them. Negotiations in the Middle East don't end anything.
  15. Cimarron

    Cimarron It's not dying I'm talking about, it's living.

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    You should, and thankyou.

    Which goes back to my question when I asked exactly what does Obama get credit for. The point is that it was a team effort and one that required the knowledge and work that has been done since we first started on this mission against terrorism. At a point in time (9/11) this country decided to be more aggressive against terrorism, Obama and the current congress has continued that policy. For that they deserve credit along with everyone man and woman in our military or otherwise connected to this effort during this period of time.
  16. RxCowboy

    A/V Subscriber RxCowboy Has no Rx for his orange obsession.

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    See, this is where you break down, the moral equivalency. It's not the same thing to cheer over the death of a murderer as it is to cheer over the deaths over those he murdered. Not even close.
  17. Darth Sensitive

    A/V Subscriber Darth Sensitive Official OP Referee

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    You can cheer the death of a human being if you like.

    I prefer not to do so.
  18. snuffy

    Staff A/V Subscriber snuffy Deep Thoughts.

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    Martin Luther King, Jr. misquoted after Osama bin Laden killed
    By Melissa Bell


    I ... never said that. (AP) “I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that.” — Martin Luther King
    Jr.

    The sentiment started appearing online Monday afternoon. After a wild night of jubilation, Americans started waking up to the realization that perhaps, just perhaps there was something a bit overly excessive in the celebrations of a man’s death — even if that man had killed thousands of people around the world.

    The quote started making the circuit on Twitter and Facebook and other social media sites. On Facebook, a friend posted it to her wall and 21 others liked it. Some wrote: “that’s beautiful,” “thank you,” “exactly.” The words seemed to soothe the ragged edges of our collective guilt.

    Only, as too many things are now a days, the quote is only half accurate: We sought solace in misattribution. The first sentence of the quote, as Megan McArdle found at the Atlantic, does not seem to have been said by Martin Luther King Jr. When people started hearing it wasn’t King, some switched the attribution to Mark Twain. It doesn’t look like Twain said it either.

    McArdle wonders why someone would make up a quote, only to take no credit for it. “Perhaps they only wanted to say this thing, and knew that no one would pay attention unless it came from someone else,” she writes.

    Or perhaps, like so many things online, it mutated from one quote to another, in this endless game of telephone we play, as we all seek out comfort together. We witnessed a man’s execution on Sunday. We celebrated it, loudly, with flags waving and songs sung. We feel a little shamefaced about our gut reaction. I don’t think I’ll ever know how to react to death and tragedy and anguish — especially with equal measures of relief and joy mixed in.

    So, we go, stumbling along, trying to make the best of it, looking to others for guidance, be it in a made up quote or in the comforting choir online that repeats phrases from one status update to another.

    Here are a few other quotes that I’ve seen floating around. These, to the best of my knowledge, do come from the sources quoted:

    “All men have an emotion to kill; when they strongly dislike some one they involuntarily wish he was dead. I have never killed any one, but I have read some obituary notices with great satisfaction..”: Clarence Darrow


    “Here is the true meaning and value of compassion and nonviolence, when it helps us to see the enemy's point of view, to hear his questions, to know his assessment of ourselves. For from his view we may indeed see the basic weaknesses of our own condition, and if we are mature, we may learn and grow and profit from the wisdom of the brothers who are called the opposition.”: Martin Luther King, Jr.

    “An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.”: Mohandas Gandhi


    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...in-laden-killed/2011/05/03/AFNKPjfF_blog.html
  19. Socrates

    Socrates Wrangler

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    Thanks for posting that. I used the exact quote above, and apparently it cannot be accurately attributed to MLK. Whoooops! However, that does not make the sentiment any less meaningful; it still has the ring of truth and has helped provide meaning to a community in light of the recent events. The last two quotes that the author of that article provides are pretty good, too.
  20. stonewallpoke

    A/V Subscriber stonewallpoke Demon Brigade

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    Re: Major world news

    I myself and the few Democrats that seem to be around here gave Bush and Obama equal credit. If you like, think of it like pitchers at a baseball game: Bush got the win, Obama got the save. And the Navy SEALs got the kill.

    And for the record, go re-read the transcript of the speech I posted: Obama gave Bush credit for never making this a war on Islam. And Bush does deserve some credit I suppose for having us over there looking for him in the first place. And don't get me started on the perception of what slant the media has: during Bush's tenure, you couldn't flip the cable news channels without running into a pundit saying how God-like W was, and that's not even mentioning FOX.

    And as it was said before, the buck stops with Obama. Going into this scenario and failing due to faulty information would've been a huge gaffe, perhaps even an international incident. Obama made (as he should've) capturing and/or killing bin Laden a top priority, and he OK'd the mission in the first place.

    It's okay to accept that Obama did something right, even if it physically hurts you to do so. ;)

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