Mike Holder

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Birry

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Holder would have chose his words more wisely had he known what other programs were willing to pay BU. He probably only looked at K-State as a legitimate threat and knew they wouldn't pursue him this year. Now here we are. Unbelievably unfortunate.
Its not misfortune. Its a complete failure by our AD.
 
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PistolPete'sMustache

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This may be true, but I will say at SFA, they loved BU (we live in East Texas), so there were no issues there. The issue I am having is there is a way to say those things to BU without insulting a guy-"we believe in you, we want you here, we believe you can take take us to new heights and be a powerhouse in BB, but this is where we are with money...I can do this at the moment,etc...".

But it sounds like a lack of vision for the program the the AD was a major role in his leaving.

This is my issue and why I am so over Holder and his leadership...NO ONE wants to work for a boss who doesn't have a vision for your program and can motivate his coaches to that vision. And even if he does have a vision, the perception to the world now is that he doesn't. So the damage done seems irreparable and there needs to be a change in leadership.
Seriously, his delivery is just terrible, and to even mention Travis Ford shows complete lack of social awareness by Holder. Why is he pointing out the negatives to begin with? Especially when you know coaches have egos? It's like he has Aspergers or something. The way you state it makes so much more sense. "We want to get you paid to Final Four status, but we're just not there yet. I can do 2.2 now and we'll talk again next year if our trajectory continues. I'm almost certain it will."

Just terrible. Only at OSU can a guy like that not even be at risk of being fired. Our athletic department is the definition of a good ol boy network. Just a complete joke.
 

GodsPeace

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I think Brad knew his value outside of Stillwater and Holder wouldn't match. I understand the reasoning logically, but BU was an amazing fit and I think we could have been special with him. Now I wonder how far we might fall.
 

Cro

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Holder screwed the pooch on this one............ the regents need to have a serious meeting............ Holder's inability to communicate w/ head coaches finally ended up costing us.............. thank GOD he hasn't run Gundy off yet..........
 
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I'm not going to defend Mike Holder. I'm also not going to crucify him. I don't have any of the facts. I bet none of you on here do either.

So it's suddenly gospel truth when Brad Underwood says "Mike Holder was trying to be cheap," just like when Underwood said, "I love Oklahoma State. I'll be here a long, long time"? Do we ever think Underwood might be trying to put some of his own spin on things?

Remember when certain people were all over Holder for not giving Sean Sutton a fair chance and firing him just because he hated the Suttons? Well, it all came out about Sean's problems a few months later. At the time of Sean's firing, Holder just took, the heat and the criticism. He did not try to publicly disgrace Sean by talking about his problems. He didn't talk about the early morning practices Sean would call for the team and then not show up,for because he couldn't get out of bed. Holder just let all the heat fall on him. I respected him for that.

Has Holder made mistakes? Sure. The Ford contract was a mistake, but many people at the tome thought it was a great move. Some thought Ford was great after Season one and we needed to lock him in.

Holder is a big part of us having Boone Pickens Stadium. He got us Josh Holliday. He has kept us out of debt. He has kept us off of probation.

He has done some good. He has made some mistakes.

Let's wait until all the facts come out on this one until we judge. Let's see who he goes and gets now.

Unless you KNOW facts that truly should be cause for his firing, we should support our own and the man with the job.
Agree with the premise of your post; however based on Berry's article we do now know Holder did not give a good sales pitch to Underwood. The only other point I would refute is in bold. It is my understanding that a condition of Boone's donation was the hiring of Mike Holder. So technically if it wasn't for Boone's donation we wouldn't have Mike Holder as AD.
 

Birry

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Agree with the premise of your post; however based on Berry's article we do now know Holder did not give a good sales pitch to Underwood. The only other point I would refute is in bold. It is my understanding that a condition of Boone's donation was the hiring of Mike Holder. So technically if it wasn't for Boone's donation we wouldn't have Mike Holder as AD.
Think about it, though. Would you want to work for a boss that is holding a previous employee's failures over your head? No. Nobody would.

Holder doubled down on his stupidity with Ford. Basically, he's just shown all of us that he has no clue how to do his job.
 

AshlandFlash

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Before you crucify Holder for bringing up TF, look through a few of the past basketball threads and see how many times this board has invoked the name of Ford.

My opinion of the whole mess is that underwood was looking for a reason to justify jumping at the money, and the OSU fanbase want's to blame Holder because he quoted facts. Danged facts, always interfering with a good discussion!
 
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Before you crucify Holder for bringing up TF, look through a few of the past basketball threads and see how many times this board has invoked the name of Ford.

My opinion of the whole mess is that underwood was looking for a reason to justify jumping at the money, and the OSU fanbase want's to blame Holder because he quoted facts. Danged facts, always interfering with a good discussion!
There's only one thread I can think of where the poster thought Underwood might be Ford 2.0, it's on the flame board. All the replies are saying how asinine it is to compare the two, how obvious it is that Underwood is on another level of coaching. Not sure the original poster has posted since.

Edit: Just checked the thread, he just returned to laugh and say I told you so, which makes no sense at all.
 
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wrenhal

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This is my take. Both sides have blame in these "negotiations". But this is just another in a list of coaching issues that Holder has had and to me that shows poor judgement and he needs to be fired.

Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk
 

Jostate

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Before you crucify Holder for bringing up TF, look through a few of the past basketball threads and see how many times this board has invoked the name of Ford.

My opinion of the whole mess is that underwood was looking for a reason to justify jumping at the money, and the OSU fanbase want's to blame Holder because he quoted facts. Danged facts, always interfering with a good discussion!
You can't seriously compare anonymous internet shoot from the hip posts to a discussion between an AD and a head coach.

Just because something is factual doesn't mean it needs to be said. It's a fact that Gundy's mullet looks stupid, but I wouldn't bring it up in a discussion while trying to get him to sign his new contract.
 
Jan 17, 2011
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Seriously, his delivery is just terrible, and to even mention Travis Ford shows complete lack of social awareness by Holder. Why is he pointing out the negatives to begin with? Especially when you know coaches have egos? It's like he has Aspergers or something. The way you state it makes so much more sense. "We want to get you paid to Final Four status, but we're just not there yet. I can do 2.2 now and we'll talk again next year if our trajectory continues. I'm almost certain it will."

Just terrible. Only at OSU can a guy like that not even be at risk of being fired. Our athletic department is the definition of a good ol boy network. Just a complete joke.
This. All of this.

And you want to talk about good 'ol boy network and the aw shucks attitude, go back and look at how holder recruited Travis Ford...just sat funny with me how he went about it.
 
Jan 17, 2011
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Before you crucify Holder for bringing up TF, look through a few of the past basketball threads and see how many times this board has invoked the name of Ford.

My opinion of the whole mess is that underwood was looking for a reason to justify jumping at the money, and the OSU fanbase want's to blame Holder because he quoted facts. Danged facts, always interfering with a good discussion!
You need to watch Gottlieb's interview with KOCO yesterday because he said something interesting-he said Underwood turned down bigger offers and more money because he wanted to be at Oklahoma State (had at least one offer at UNLV, and BU and Gottlieb share an agent), and that OSU was one of his destination jobs...so the jumping at money argument doesn't add up.

And I'm all about "danged facts" but good lord man, you can deliver "danged facts" without being insulting or a douche.

Again, this is about failure in leadership. There needs to be a vote of no confidence for our AD and let's move on.
 

Poke4Christ

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This is my take. Both sides have blame in these "negotiations". But this is just another in a list of coaching issues that Holder has had and to me that shows poor judgement and he needs to be fired.

Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk
This This This!!!!! Relational disputes are always two sided. However, I have learned from experience that there are particular people that habitually cause them. In dealing with these people, the only way to avoid conflict is to capitulate to them whenever there is a conflict.

Anyway, my point is when someone has people issues, you see the trend with them. You see them alienating person after person. I think we are starting to see that trend with Mike Holder.
 

ksupoke

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Before you crucify Holder for bringing up TF, look through a few of the past basketball threads and see how many times this board has invoked the name of Ford.

My opinion of the whole mess is that underwood was looking for a reason to justify jumping at the money, and the OSU fanbase want's to blame Holder because he quoted facts. Danged facts, always interfering with a good discussion!
Quoting facts (that aren't facts) that are primarily of your own making to suggest someone did not perform to the level they are seeking to be compensated for is not a particularly strong position.
Holder, in essence, used his failure with Ford as a negotiating tactic against Underwood.
Also of those facts you are mentioning, only the Ford won more games and a tournament game are true and even they are true only as pure numbers not based on level of play, the Pokes are not at the level of KSU and TTU they are a notch above and they are not at the level of ISU they are, currently, a couple of notches below, if Underwood really wanted to get into a tit for tat he would have asked about Ford's current status or where exactly were TTU, TCU and KSU in the b12 standings, it could have been far more ugly than it seems it actually was and maybe Holder interpreted that as having a good relationship with Underwood.

Again, IF TRUE, this reflects incredibly poorly on Holder and it doesn't make the University look all that good either especially in the search for a new candidate (not named DG:rolleyes:).

The horse is dead, long live the horse.
 

RutherfordFan

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Holder screwed the pooch on this one............ the regents need to have a serious meeting............ Holder's inability to communicate w/ head coaches finally ended up costing us.............. thank GOD he hasn't run Gundy off yet..........
Agree 100%. Holder has zero people skills.
 

RutherfordFan

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Seriously, his delivery is just terrible, and to even mention Travis Ford shows complete lack of social awareness by Holder. Why is he pointing out the negatives to begin with? Especially when you know coaches have egos? It's like he has Aspergers or something. The way you state it makes so much more sense. "We want to get you paid to Final Four status, but we're just not there yet. I can do 2.2 now and we'll talk again next year if our trajectory continues. I'm almost certain it will."

Just terrible. Only at OSU can a guy like that not even be at risk of being fired. Our athletic department is the definition of a good ol boy network. Just a complete joke.
Amen. Time to un country bumpkin ourselves. I love country people and many are very intelligent. Holder is a man who has zero freakin people skills. Holder has zero idea how to talk to people. Fire him now!
 
Jun 30, 2009
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There's only one thread I can think of where the poster thought Underwood might be Ford 2.0, it's on the flame board. All the replies are saying how asinine it is to compare the two, how obvious it is that Underwood is on another level of coaching. Not sure the original poster has posted since.

Edit: Just checked the thread, he just returned to laugh and say I told you so, which makes no sense at all.
I will say that this is exactly the same situation that lead to Travis Ford's contract. I think Underwood is 1-4 in the NCAA tournament. He was won games for sure. But we also had some great talent on the team.
 

ksupoke

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The more I think about this the more I'm trying to not laugh at work. Which makes it even funnier.
[/QUOTE]
Would be funnier if it was tourretts can you imagine how that would go.
Mr H I'd like to discuss my contract- F, MF, Stupid SOB, oh I'm sorry you were saying, oh nothing just wanted to tell you how happy I am to be here.
 
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