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NFL '10 Second Run-off' Rule

Discussion in 'Non-OSU Sports Discussion' started by BAMF cowboy, Sep 13, 2010.

  1. BAMF cowboy

    A/V Subscriber BAMF cowboy The Village BAMF

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    First of all I'll preface this by saying that I am a Dallas Cowboys fan and this is in reference to the Cowboys - Redskins last night.

    For those who didn't see it, the Cowboys scored the game-tying touchdown as time expired, but was called off for a holding call (the correct call). The game then ended.

    Now in the NFL, when the losing team commits a penalty in the last 2 minutes, 10 seconds are 'run-off' of the clock. During any other point during the game the ball would be spotted 10 yards back and they would replay the down as if it had never happened.

    It's not so much the rule I have a problem with. I understand what the purpose behind the rule is: to prevent teams attempting to come back from stopping the clock allowing them to organize themselves for the next play (i.e. an intentional false start, illegal formation etc.)

    However, a penalty committed during the play provides no benefit to that team after the play has begun, as was the case last night. To me it doesn't make sense to run-off 10 seconds for something such as holding, clipping or PI when committing that penalty does not help the team but rather hurt them.

    What do you guys think? Should the Cowboys have been allowed another shot on an un-timed down 10 yards farther back? I do.
  2. brianwr

    A/V Subscriber brianwr Cleared direct Dikas

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    How much time was on the clock when the penalty occurred? If it the clock was on 0:00, the game should end, there's no reason to give the penalized team an extra un-timed down.
  3. Darth Sensitive

    A/V Subscriber Darth Sensitive Official OP Referee

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    What he said. Time expired during the play. Games can end on an offensive penalty.
  4. BAMF cowboy

    A/V Subscriber BAMF cowboy The Village BAMF

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    I suppose that's fair, as if something similar had occurred earlier in the 4th quarter time wouldn't be put back on the clock.

    But what if the play had started at :09 and ended with :01?
  5. Brownstone322

    Brownstone322 Greenhorn

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    Well, I dunno if I agree. Under "normal" conditions, the defense would have two alternatives: to accept the foul, which would allow the offense to run one more play (in this case untimed) or to decline the foul, which, in this case, would have been to accept the result of the play (a touchdown). The clock doesn't get reset, but logic might suggest that the down should be replayed, without or without the clock. That's exactly what would happen if the foul were on the defense.

    Well, sure, assuming the defense declined the penalty.
  6. dds115

    A/V Subscriber dds115 Laughable

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    I never thought of that, but I agree with you 100%.
  7. PistolPete'sMustache

    A/V Subscriber PistolPete'sMustache Wrangler

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    The only problem with your theory is that the offense did benefit from the hold. The hold held the defender back for a second giving Romo time to duck him and giving Roy Williams an extra second to get free in the endzone. Without the hold, Romo probably gets sacked and the game is over. I think this is the theory behind allowing the game to end on an offensive penalty.

    And I am as big a Cowboys fan as it gets. I think Alex Barron should be cut, not only for that play at the end, but he pretty much cost us most of the game with his inability to avoid the yellow flags. Jason Garrett should have his balls cut off for calling a ridiculous unnecessary play at the end of the second half that cost us the game. I blame him much more than Tashard Choice who should never have been in that situation. Kneel the damn ball and go to the locker room. Probably the most frustrating Cowboys game I've watched in years.
  8. kenny41

    kenny41 Cowboy

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    Lions = screwed over by a stupid rule

    Cowboys = screwed over by a stupid player... O-O
  9. Darth Sensitive

    A/V Subscriber Darth Sensitive Official OP Referee

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    No.

    Yes.
  10. FlamingAggie

    FlamingAggie Cowboy

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    The "run off rule" is in place to prevent the offense from intentionally committing a penalty to stop the clock.
  11. panhandler62

    panhandler62 Cowboy

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    Just running wild with the speculation .... suppose the penalty is declined: would it be a tie game or would the Cowboys have been given an untimed shot at a conversion?

    It was pretty sloppy over all. Neither of these teams are ready for the Giants yet.
  12. Chris H.

    Staff Chris H. Systems Administrator

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    If the penalty is declined a touchdown was scored and the Cowboys win. No need for a PAT. If the penatly is "accepted" then at any other time in the game they would replay the down.

    While it makes sense that the offensive team can not extend a game by committing a penalty, I think you still have to have the defense accept or decline the penalty. Even when the defense commits a penalty at the end of the game it must be accepted (enforce + free untimed play) or decline (game ends).
  13. Chris H.

    Staff Chris H. Systems Administrator

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    I don't have a huge problem for giving the Hail Mary a shot. That's fine. But when the pocket broke down and Tony had to scramble, he should have just slid. There never should have been a pitch. The question is whether Garrett called the option, has a designed option safety valve and just didn't tell Romo to not pitch. I don't know, but there's plenty of dumbness to spread around.
  14. panhandler62

    panhandler62 Cowboy

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    The final score was 13-7. If the TD scores but there is no PAT it would be a tie game.
  15. CocoCincinnati

    CocoCincinnati Cowboy

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    Conversion attempts, either 1 pt or 2 pt, are all untimed anyway so if the penally had been declined or not called then yes Dallas could have kicked the PAT. A more interesting question to me is whether a PAT attempt is required. I bring it up only because in the Tulsa game from Labor Day, when they lost on the last play of the game, the other team lined up for a PAT attempt, with 00 on the clock and just downed the ball, a smart move as a blocked PAT return would have tied the game. So the question is, is the team required to run a PAT play, even in the victory formation, to give the other team even a chance at a miracle? And of course it could be one way in college and completey different in the pros.
  16. Chris H.

    Staff Chris H. Systems Administrator

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    Sorry, you're right. Had the wrong score in my head. But as Coco said, PATs are untimed anyways.
  17. PistolPete'sMustache

    A/V Subscriber PistolPete'sMustache Wrangler

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    I'm not 100% sure, but I'm pretty sure I've seen games where a team is down less than 6 and score with no time on the clock. They were not required to come out for the PAT attempt. It may have been in OT, so there may be a different rule in OT.
  18. CocoCincinnati

    CocoCincinnati Cowboy

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    Didn't mean to hijack so to get back on the orginal question. I don't like the rule personally....I'm not sure how long it has been on the books but I just can't ever remember there being a problem of on purpose penalties to stop the clock being a problem in the NFL before. And it makes mistakes late in the game more costly than they are the rest of the game.

    But the rule is the rule and it applies equally to everbody....and there is no question whatsoever that the guy held. So game over. Time for Dallas to work on why the guy was holding so blatantly in the first place rather than reflect on the rule.
  19. Brownstone322

    Brownstone322 Greenhorn

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    The extra point (officially called "the try") is not attempted when a touchdown results in a winning score with no time remaining on the clock. (It actually used to be, if you can believe that.) If the touchdown results in a tie, then the scoring team must execute the try. Remember, either team can score on the try, so either team still has an opportunity to win. (Whoops! That doesn't apply in the NFL.)

    I have a friend who's a Big East official, and his father is an NFL official (both head linesmen). My friend is a walking rulebook encyclopedia, and he straightened me out on that rule some years ago. He also explained to me the circumstances of the "one-point safety," to which I reacted, "Sure, but that's never gonna happen." But then ... sure enough ... in 2004 I was watching the Texas-Texas A&M game ... and it happened! I almost fell out of my chair!
  20. CocoCincinnati

    CocoCincinnati Cowboy

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    Yeah I'm sure I've seen games end on a TD with no conversion attmept made, which is why I was so surprised to see ECU run one against TU when there was absolutely no benefit to them for doing it. Maybe it is only required in games where the final score is 2 points or less, since those are the only times that the PAT play could affect the outcome any further.

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