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Project Gunrunner

Discussion in 'World News & Politics' started by Cimarron, May 4, 2011.

  1. Hokey_Pokey

    Hokey_Pokey Sheriff

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    Maybe the reason that this investigation is being stonewalled is because Project Gunrunner is still being followed up on. Right now, we don't know what information has been gained tracking these guns. The truth needs to come out eventually, but it seems that conclusions are being jumped to awful quickly.
     
  2. Cimarron

    Cimarron It's not dying I'm talking about, it's living.

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    And what conclusions would those be?
     
  3. Hokey_Pokey

    Hokey_Pokey Sheriff

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    That the investigations are being stonewalled in order to fabricate/destroy evidence or protect people higher up. I want to see results before I call for heads.
     
  4. Cimarron

    Cimarron It's not dying I'm talking about, it's living.

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    As long as the investigation is stonewalled how are you going to find out what happened?

    Why would Holder have lied then? It's clearly obvious to me he lied. All of the reasoning from his defenders sounds very similar to a discussion of what is the definition of is?
     
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  5. Cimarron

    Cimarron It's not dying I'm talking about, it's living.

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    Former Holder Chief of Staff Nomination to Court Imperiled Over 'Fast and Furious'

    The confirmation of a former aide to Attorney General Eric Holder to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Armed Forces may be in peril over his response to questions posed by Arizona Sen. John McCain about his knowledge of Operation Fast and Furious.

    Kevin Ohlson, who worked as Holder's chief of staff from January 2009 to January 2011, faces a confirmation hearing on Thursday for the post. The panel with jurisdiction is the Senate Armed Services Committee, of which McCain is the ranking Republican and Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., is chairman.
    In his response Monday to a questionnaire sent from McCain last week, both obtained by Fox News, Ohlson said he knew nothing about the operation while he was at the Justice Department.

    "During my tenure as chief of staff and counselor to the attorney general, I took no actions in regard to, had no knowledge of, provided no advice about, and had no involvement in Operation Fast and Furious," he wrote. Ohlson wrote he did participate in a prep session with Holder on Fast and Furious earlier this month before Holder testified to Congress.

    In the letter sent by McCain, he wrote that as Holder's chief of staff Ohlson was "in a position to be informed about the Operation, to make decisions regarding the operation, and to know what information about it was and was not provided to the attorney general."

    But in his response, Ohlson wrote he had "been informed that routine courtesy copies of weekly reports were forwarded to me that referred to the operation by name, but that did not provide any operational details and did not refer to gun walking or anything similar."

    But Ohlson said nothing on the cover sheets of the reports indicated they contained important or sensitive materials and he didn't review them.

    The latest response highlights a recurring theme coming from the Department of Justice about Fast and Furious that has raised troubling concerns for Republicans, specifically, that officials there did not get into details or make the effort to look further into the botched gun-walking program.

    Fast and Furious was run out of the Department of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives and aimed to allow straw purchasers illegally buy guns from U.S. shops in order to trace where they went. Hundreds of those guns disappeared into Mexico, and the operation blew up in late 2010 after the murder of U.S. Border Agent Brian Terry. Two guns linked to the operation were found at the crime scene.

    But in response to questions raised about the program, Holder said memos about Fast and Furious addressed to him were never brought to his attention. Holder's then No. 2, Gary Grindler, did receive a briefing on Fast and Furious, but didn't discuss it with others, he says, because the tactics were never mentioned.

    Head of the Justice Department's Criminal Division Lanny Breuer said he knew of a different gun-walking case but didn't ask if others were occurring. Breuer's deputies also approved wiretaps in Fast and Furious, but only looked at cover sheets, according to Justice Department officials.
    Lower-level attorneys from the department's Gang Unit briefly worked on Fast and Furious as well as other gun-walking cases, but their work never filtered up.

    Ohlson left Holder's office in January 2011 to become chief of the Professional Misconduct Review Unit. He said that there was no linkage between his move and Terry's death.

    House Oversight and Government Reform Chairman Darrell Issa said the whole case shows that changes are needed at the Justice Department.

    Holder "wouldn't even admit that, in fact, Fast and Furious led directly to the death of Brian Terry. He seems to want to obfuscate that," Issa, R-Calif., told Fox News on Tuesday, not referring to Ohlson's replies to the questionnaire.

    "That shows that we really need to get some kind of change at the Department of Justice in the AG's office, or we're not going to get the kind of change Americans can believe in."

     
  6. bleedinorange

    bleedinorange Territorial Marshal

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    Just heard that 40+ congressmen are calling for Holder to resign over events surrounding Fast and Furious.
     
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  7. PokealypseNow

    PokealypseNow Territorial Marshal

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    Holder needs to go, and the whole runaway train that is the BATF needs a comprehensive overhaul.

    [​IMG]
     
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  8. CocoCincinnati

    CocoCincinnati Territorial Marshal

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  9. Cimarron

    Cimarron It's not dying I'm talking about, it's living.

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    Got to love this administration when the Justice Department is covering up information.
     
  10. OSU Sig

    OSU Sig Federal Marshal

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    Is there any way to get documents unsealed, once this happens?
     
  11. Cimarron

    Cimarron It's not dying I'm talking about, it's living.

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    December 8, 2012

    Attorney General Eric Holder suggested Thursday that weapons lost during the course of the failed "Fast and Furious" gunrunning operation will continue to show up at crime scenes in the U.S. and Mexico "for years to come."

    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/12/08/holder-suggests-fast-and-furious-guns-will-be-used-in-crimes-for-years-to-come/#ixzz1fxgN3Ido


    Holder has used this opportunity today to ask Congress to support efforts to give the Justice Department broader legal tools to track firearms purchases!

    Are you kidding me. This is the same Attorney General who has stonewalled Congress and possibly lied and mislead Congress in regards to Fast and Furious. And he wants more control?
     
  12. Roman Craig

    Roman Craig Race Ya Home! A/V Subscriber

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    So he basically admitted that it is a scam for gun control?
     
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  13. Cimarron

    Cimarron It's not dying I'm talking about, it's living.

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    If you remember out in front of the current "gun runner" program Obama and H. Clinton were running around the country campaigning on the need for more gun control and brought up several times that many of the guns being used in criminal activity in Mexico originated in the United States. Little did we know at the time why and how they were getting there!

    A little review of the history for this current administration on gun control and Mexico!

    ABC News Feb. 25, 2009
    "As President Obama indicated during the campaign, there are just a few gun-related changes that we would like to make, and among them would be to reinstitute the ban on the sale of assault weapons," Holder told reporters.

    Holder said that putting the ban back in place would not only be a positive move by the United States, it would help cut down on the flow of guns going across the border into Mexico, which is struggling with heavy violence among drug cartels along the border.

    "I think that will have a positive impact in Mexico, at a minimum." Holder said at a news conference on the arrest of more than 700 people in a drug enforcement crackdown on Mexican drug cartels operating in the U.S.

    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=6960824&page=1
     
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  14. Cimarron

    Cimarron It's not dying I'm talking about, it's living.

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  15. bleedinorange

    bleedinorange Territorial Marshal

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    Eight to five says Holder stays and offers up a sacrificial lamb (or two) to placate the investigators. He and the big Zero are joined at the hip.
     
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  16. OSU Sig

    OSU Sig Federal Marshal

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    It's obvious that Holder is to be the firewall and will fall on his sword to protect dear leader.
     
  17. Cimarron

    Cimarron It's not dying I'm talking about, it's living.

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    That's what the hold up on turning over documents is doing. They are finding the out.
     
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  18. Cimarron

    Cimarron It's not dying I'm talking about, it's living.

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    Eric Holder tells NY Times he's taking hits for Obama because 'We're both African-American'



    The New York Times has a new profile out today about Attorney General Eric Holder, detailing how he has become a "partisan lightning rod" and frequent target of conservatives over his pursuance of issues like illegal immigration and gay rights.
    In the piece, Holder claims that many of his critics are playing "Washington 'gotcha games,'" viewing him as someone who takes "consistently progressive stands" instead of examining his record and seeing that he takes a more realistic view of law enforcement. The most powerful attacks against Holder have come in the wake of the ATF's controversial "Fast & Furious" gunrunning scandal. In the interview, Holder admits that he regrets sending a letter to Congress assuring legislators that "agents always tried to interdict illegally purchased guns," which turned out to be incorrect.

    http://www.thegrio.com/politics/eri...-obama-because-were-both-african-american.php
     
  19. Cimarron

    Cimarron It's not dying I'm talking about, it's living.

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    Why can't we get answers? Why is the DOJ dragging their feet? Is there a cover-up?

    Former DEA chief says 3 other federal agencies knew about Operation Fast and Furious
    While criticism surrounding Operation Fast and Furious has so far focused on the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, three other federal agencies knew about the operation and some of their agents tried to stop it, according to the former chief of the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration in Tucson.
    Tony Coulson, the DEA’s agent in charge of Southern Arizona during Fast and Furious, says many federal field agents knew the ATF was walking guns to Mexico, but supervisors told them to back off when they objected.

    “Clearly, we went too far,” Coulson said. “The question we had among rank and file law enforcement was, ‘When is someone going to call ATF on this, when is someone going to tell them to stop?’”
    Coulson’s remarks jibe with what is already known about the operation. The DEA, the FBI and ICE, also known as Immigration Customs and Enforcement, all played roles in the investigation.
    Coulson said those agencies share the blame since top officials knew, but did little to stop, the gunrunning effort. Coulson is among the first senior public officials, current or former, who admit knowing about the botched operation.
    Coulson claims he raised objections to then-DEA chief Elizabeth Kempshall, but was told it was taken care of. After attending a meeting with ATF agent in charge Bill Newell, Coulson said that’s when he and other agents “knew (Fast and Furious) was not some sort of benign, pie-in-the-sky publicity stunt. Guns were actually getting in the hands of criminals.”
    According to Congressional testimony and documents obtained by Fox News, the other agencies involved include:
    • ICE
    Immigration and Customs Enforcement assigned agent Layne France to work alongside ATF in the operation. Sources say France replaced ICE senior agent Ed Hamel, who objected to the ATF ‘gunwalking’ strategy.
    As a member of the Fast and Furious task force, France received copies of all ATF investigative reports, and sources say France knew the operation in detail. Congressional investigators want to know who at ICE and the Department of Homeland Security saw France’s reports, and how much he reported up the chain of command about the operation.
    “I don’t think ICE can get away from the fact they were there side by side with ATF. They were not willing participants. This was something they were told to do, but they were still there,” Coulson said.
    Sources say ICE agents who interdicted and seized weapons on the Mexican border got in a battle with ATF over tactics. Coulson says ICE agents stationed at Arizona ports of entry were told by supervisors to let the issue go, because ‘people above their pay grade’ had already signed off on the operation.
    That version of events is supported by a document obtained Thursday by Fox News. Twice in 2009, ICE was forced to halt gun investigations because their inquiries conflicted with Operation Fast and Furious. ATF and the Arizona U.S. Attorney’s Office told ICE “not to interfere” because Fast and Furious took priority.
    Sources say ICE Director John Morton ordered an internal review of ICE involvement in Fast and Furious after the death of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry.
    An ICE official said the agency could not comment on the latest claims due to an ongoing investigation. ICE officials admit they knew about Fast and Furious, but claim the agency did not know about the controversial “tactics” involved until they were reported in the media.
    • DEA
    The Drug Enforcement Administration actually helped initiate Fast and Furious when one of its own targets, suspected drug dealer Manuel Celis Acosta, began to acquire guns for the Sinaloa Cartel. The DEA invited ATF to take over the weapons phase of that investigation.
    The two agencies shared the same floor and same ‘wire room’ in Phoenix, where agents listened to suspects' conversations on court-approved wiretaps. The DEA also had initiated an investigation into the “money men” behind Fast and Furious – two cartel associates in the El Paso-Juarez area -- but deliberately did not tell the ATF. However the names of the two high-level cartel contacts were written “frequently” on call logs inside the wire room, according to a congressional memo, but ATF agents failed to notice. This information was available in January 2010, one year before Fast and Furious was finally taken down.
    • FBI
    The FBI had also opened an investigation of the two high-level cartel associates targeted by the ATF. The FBI designated both men national security assets but didn’t alert the ATF. In exchange for one individual’s guilty plea to a minor count of “Alien in Possession of a Firearm” both men became FBI informants and are now considered ‘un-indictable,' according to a congressional review of the situation.
    When the ATF learned the FBI knew, but shielded their informants, Agent Jim Needles called it “frustrating.” Attorney General Eric Holder said he would “look into” the lack of information sharing. However, sources who have attended classified briefings say the two are both are still inside the cartel and their identities cannot be compromised, suggesting the FBI will likely escape congressional scrutiny, despite their awareness of the tactics used in Fast and Furious.
     
  20. Cimarron

    Cimarron It's not dying I'm talking about, it's living.

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