Soooo, This Baseball Scandal....

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ScooberJake

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#21
Just because the level of punishment doesn't meet your criteria, doesn't make the punishment insufficient.
By definition it means I think it is insufficient. You are free to disagree. But let me ask you this. Do you think this punishment will deter teams and players from doing this in the future? All this punishment says is managers can't be involved. But the video guys and the players are apparently free to break the rules however they want with absolutely NO repercussions.

MLB wants this to go away, because they don't want to have to investigate the Yankees, Dodgers, Brewers, Diamondbacks, Blue Jays, and Rangers. Those are a few of the names, I've heard in various articles over the last week. During the investigation, Houston reported 8 teams of doing similar things.
So if enough teams break the rules, then we just stop enforcing the rules? That sounds like chaos. If they want to decide that this practice is acceptable, then change the rule. Although that would be a pretty stupid perversion of the game (IMO), at least it would be orderly.

I also believe it will continue to decrease because of the Astro penalties.
I guess we will see. I don't see how the penalties laid down so far discourage anyone other than managers.
 
Jan 13, 2008
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#22
By definition it means I think it is insufficient. You are free to disagree. But let me ask you this. Do you think this punishment will deter teams and players from doing this in the future? All this punishment says is managers can't be involved. But the video guys and the players are apparently free to break the rules however they want with absolutely NO repercussions.

So if enough teams break the rules, then we just stop enforcing the rules? That sounds like chaos. If they want to decide that this practice is acceptable, then change the rule. Although that would be a pretty stupid perversion of the game (IMO), at least it would be orderly.

I guess we will see. I don't see how the penalties laid down so far discourage anyone other than managers.
I think it will deter teams from doing illegal sign stealing. No one in the Astro's clubhouse wanted to see Hinch get fired and that probably holds true for a lot of teams.

I think you have to enforce the rules. MLB made Houston an example and they are just slow playing this so they don't have to investigate 15 teams for similar illegal activities. Hoping everyone cleans their house before the season starts. They don't want to air all the dirty laundry like the steroids and have this drag out.

It reminds me of a friend that worked undercover for a prominent suburb around Dallas. Their operation was shut down because they were making bigger arrests with higher classifications. This made the city's crime stats jump up especially for more severe crimes and the city council didn't like that. MLB doesn't want to see the stats go up.

Twitter and Instagram will probably still go crazy with all the "self-appointed" detectives (fans) everywhere analyzing the opponent's every movement.

Labor agreement expires after 2021 season. It will be interesting if player involvement is addressed specifically.

Interesting note: One of the players attacking the Astro's lately, served a 50 day PED suspension in 2012. Marcus Stroman.
 
Feb 25, 2008
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#23
I think it will deter teams from doing illegal sign stealing. No one in the Astro's clubhouse wanted to see Hinch get fired and that probably holds true for a lot of teams.

I think you have to enforce the rules. MLB made Houston an example and they are just slow playing this so they don't have to investigate 15 teams for similar illegal activities. Hoping everyone cleans their house before the season starts. They don't want to air all the dirty laundry like the steroids and have this drag out.
After a couple of big name teams were found guilty (and warning all 30 teams) they finally found the lesser team to hit them harder - as promised. But nobody wants discuss all other teams involved.

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mlb-rules-on-red-sox-yankees-sign-stealing-and-fines-both-teams/

Earlier this month, news broke that the Red Sox had been caught using an Apple Watch to steal signs from the Yankees. This came to light via a Yankees complaint. The Red Sox, in turn filed a complaint about the Yankees using YES Network to steal signs from the Red Sox. At the time, it was reported that Major League Baseball was investigating the matter.
 

SLVRBK

Johnny 8ball's PR Manager
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#24
Pedro Martinez isn't happy with Mike Fiers:

If he was to do it when he was playing for the Houston Astros I would say Mike Fiers has guts. But to go and do it after you leave the Houston Astros because they don't have you anymore, that doesn't show me anything," the Hall of Fame pitcher recently told Rob Bradford, Lou Merloni, and Mike Mutnansky of WEEI. "You’re just a bad teammate."
"If you tell me that Mike Fiers is coming to my team and you already threw your team under the bus, the team that you used to play for ... Now everybody knows you are going to have a whistle-blower in any other situation too," the three-time Cy Young winner continued. "Whatever happens in the clubhouse stays in the clubhouse and Fiers broke the rules."

https://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/1931930/pedro-martinez-fiers-broke-the-rules-in-the-clubhouse
 

Cro

we need some celery and a can of fake snow
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#26
I'm an Astros fan and have been for 40 years. They cheated, but I don't think they are the only ones. I think the steroid issue was a bigger scandal.

I don't think they wore buzzers. There is too much that could happen, which would result in them being seen at least once over the course of time. Sliding into base, hit by a pitch and go down.

In 2000's, the Astros-Cardinals was a big rivalry. I remember during the play-offs the announcers would talk about how the St Louis Cardinals had a film room down the hall from their dugout and that was where Pujols would go to "study" the pitcher. They would actually show Pujols darting down the tunnel and then coming out of the tunnel before his next at bat. Tony LaRussa was the manager. The same manager being mentioned now by Jack McDowell for illegal cameras when LaRussa managed the White Sox.

In 2017, the Red Sox with Apple watches and Yankees with the YES television feed (Yankees were cleared of wrong doing). I think the commissioner screwed up by not making it a bigger deal out of it. His memo was a 2nd page story.

Plus at the beginning of the 2019 season, MLB added their officials to the replay room and only they were able to see real time feeds. The teams were given 8 second delay feeds. This indicates there was still wide-spread use of camera feeds.

I think there is a lot of electronic stealing going on. Fiers was ticked off that the Astros didn't offer him after the 2017 season. 2019 rolls around, the Astros use him for batting practice in September (1 inning 9 runs), and he goes after them in the Athletic about 2017. Controversy makes money and it takes off. I am curious how many electronic sign stealing systems have been shut down this off-season.

HITTING SPLITS:
You can look at splits for all sorts of players and you will always be able to find a large variance when looking at 7 game series. 1 hit when looking at only home or away stats can equal a 60 - 90 point swing in the batting average.

People post Altuve, Correa, and McCann (seriously?) home and away splits as proof. They never post George Springers splits which were better at LA and he was the MVP.

Here is a split for the 2017 Yankees vs Astros in the ALCS.

Judge Home 0.444 4 R 6 RBI
Away 0.133 1 R 1 RBI
Gregorius Home 0.417 2 R 1 RBI
Away 0.125 0 R 0 RBI
Headley Home 0.625 2 R 1 RBI
Away 0.200 0 R 0 RBI
Frazier Home 0.300 3 R 3 RBI
Away 0.083 0 R 1 RBI
astros fan trying to deflect......... imagine that
 

OSUCowboy787

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#29
Do you realize they were the THIRD team that has been fined for electronic sign stealing form the 2017 season?
https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mlb-rules-on-red-sox-yankees-sign-stealing-and-fines-both-teams/

Just because the level of punishment doesn't meet your criteria, doesn't make the punishment insufficient.

MLB wants this to go away, because they don't want to have to investigate the Yankees, Dodgers, Brewers, Diamondbacks, Blue Jays, and Rangers. Those are a few of the names, I've heard in various articles over the last week. During the investigation, Houston reported 8 teams of doing similar things.

I think illegal sign stealing has become less of a problem since the Red Sox - Yankee 2017 ordeal. I also believe it will continue to decrease because of the Astro penalties.
Sounds like a very sooner thing to say....'Well everyone else is doing it...'
 

trippin629

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#31
Astros hitters better be heads up at the plate this season. Might be alot of chin music coming their way.

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Jan 13, 2008
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#32
I expect some pre-game warnings against certain teams with no second chances.

Houston finishes Spring Training with 2 games against CLE. No top line pitchers should be in the game. Could be dicey if Cleveland has a no-name player throw at an all-star Houston player. The games are in Houston.

Regular season, CLE and NYY are the only two teams that I could see something major. Cleveland could get ugly with some of the personal barking between Clevinger and a few Astro players, if he starts.

Teams would be stupid to go in throwing at hitters. Could happen a few times, but that already goes on for all teams. Media being media. They want a story line. If it happens, you could see some suspensions.
 

trippin629

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#33
I expect some pre-game warnings against certain teams with no second chances.

Houston finishes Spring Training with 2 games against CLE. No top line pitchers should be in the game. Could be dicey if Cleveland has a no-name player throw at an all-star Houston player. The games are in Houston.

Regular season, CLE and NYY are the only two teams that I could see something major. Cleveland could get ugly with some of the personal barking between Clevinger and a few Astro players, if he starts.

Teams would be stupid to go in throwing at hitters. Could happen a few times, but that already goes on for all teams. Media being media. They want a story line. If it happens, you could see some suspensions.
As a cleveland fan I fully expect Sunshine to get a little nasty if he pitches against the stros. I'm completely against going at guys' domes, but I dont mind a little player policing. Expect them to come right back at our guys if he does tho.

With that in mind, I'm glad Bauer is in Cincinnati now. I dont mind Clev's attitude, but Trevor has a way of escalating situations more than the average player.

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Jan 13, 2008
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#35
Normally not a fan of throwing at batters intentionally, but I would love to see Bregman take a few pitches in the ear this season
I understand why people don't like Bregman and there are times I wish he would shut up too. But do you think before you post things link that? You have plenty of time to re-read it, preview it, something before posting that. You could even come back and delete it.
 

trippin629

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#36
A guy who played on our beer league team a couple years ago took a mid-80s fastball to the eye at the dish. Had to call an ambulance, permanent eye damage, had to hang up his cleats.

Working inside, brushing a guy back, hell, even plunking a guy for good reason is part of the game. But you better be damn sure you stay away from the dome. No place in the game for that.

Side note: the pitcher in that story wasn't trying to work inside or anything like that. Just a little wild. Guy felt terrible. Sad stuff, but just one of the risks of the game.

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Aug 16, 2012
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#37
A guy who played on our beer league team a couple years ago took a mid-80s fastball to the eye at the dish. Had to call an ambulance, permanent eye damage, had to hang up his cleats.

Working inside, brushing a guy back, hell, even plunking a guy for good reason is part of the game. But you better be damn sure you stay away from the dome. No place in the game for that.

Side note: the pitcher in that story wasn't trying to work inside or anything like that. Just a little wild. Guy felt terrible. Sad stuff, but just one of the risks of the game.

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MSBL?
 

Cro

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#38
As a cleveland fan I fully expect Sunshine to get a little nasty if he pitches against the stros. I'm completely against going at guys' domes, but I dont mind a little player policing. Expect them to come right back at our guys if he does tho.

With that in mind, I'm glad Bauer is in Cincinnati now. I dont mind Clev's attitude, but Trevor has a way of escalating situations more than the average player.

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Bauer is just a weird dude. It's obvious why he would rub people the wrong way. The Astros players will get sh!t all year from fans and opposing players alike, and deservedly so. I'd be all in on Clevinger drilling Bregman in the kidney......
 

trippin629

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#39
As a cleveland fan I fully expect Sunshine to get a little nasty if he pitches against the stros. I'm completely against going at guys' domes, but I dont mind a little player policing. Expect them to come right back at our guys if he does tho.

With that in mind, I'm glad Bauer is in Cincinnati now. I dont mind Clev's attitude, but Trevor has a way of escalating situations more than the average player.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
Bauer is just a weird dude. It's obvious why he would rub people the wrong way. The Astros players will get sh!t all year from fans and opposing players alike, and deservedly so. I'd be all in on Clevinger drilling Bregman in the kidney......
Kidney is fair game, head is not.

And I was fine with Bauer and his quirks most of the time. I loved his cerebral approach to pitching. His attitude at times was a little abrasive, but tolerable. I think Tito finally said enough. Plus, I'm hoping Reyes turns out to be more than enough of a return in that trade.


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trippin629

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#40
A guy who played on our beer league team a couple years ago took a mid-80s fastball to the eye at the dish. Had to call an ambulance, permanent eye damage, had to hang up his cleats.

Working inside, brushing a guy back, hell, even plunking a guy for good reason is part of the game. But you better be damn sure you stay away from the dome. No place in the game for that.

Side note: the pitcher in that story wasn't trying to work inside or anything like that. Just a little wild. Guy felt terrible. Sad stuff, but just one of the risks of the game.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
MSBL?
GCBL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk