Thanks Coach Boynton for putting in such hard work!!

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Oct 30, 2007
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Baylor under Scott Drew....



I bet they had fans calling for him to be fired after his 3rd year too. It takes time to turn around a program.
A little perspective is needed for this comparison. Baylor was a terrible basketball program when they hired Scott Drew. They hadn't made the NCAA tournament since the mid 80's, and they had only made the NCAA tournament 4 times in the history of their program. Not only that, they were fresh off the Dave Bliss scandal. Their roster was blown up, and they had significant NCAA penalties to deal with.

Scott Drew inherited a terrible program that had been recently decimated by scandal. Mike Boynton inherited a program that had been to the NCAA tournament 4 of the previous 5 years. Despite all of his hardships at Baylor, Drew was 53-30 after his first 3 seasons. (Boynton is currently 42-43.)
My mistake. I was looking at the wrong years in reference to Drew's record. He was actually a dismal 21-53 after 3 years. So Coach Boynton has had a better start to his career so far. Drew definitely had a longer leash due to his circumstances though.
 
Mar 27, 2008
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Stop it with the logic, lol.

Seriously, anyone who compares Boynton taking over our program to Drew taking over Baylor’s program is grasping at straws to defend Boynton. It’s kind of like a few in here who were calling out the “haters” during halftime today. Some people on this board just don’t get it. I don’t mean this as a negative toward Boynton, but Bozo the Clown could be our coach and some would still defend 3 straight unsuccessful seasons.
I respectfully disagree. I think the people grasping at straws are the ones calling for a coach to be fired mid season, while no one is even mentioning who his replacement would be. Who do you think our head coach should be? Scott Sutton? I bet he would even say that firing Boynton is a bad idea.

Do you honestly think you can get a better coach here right now for what Mike Holder is paying? Let me remind you that Boynton has the #1 projected NBA draft pick coming in next year and possibly a top 10 recruiting class. I don't think you can find another coach who can do that for what Holder is currently paying.

No one likes where we are right now as a program. But I don't think firing someone helps anything right now.
 

Ptak'sNewspaper

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I respectfully disagree. I think the people grasping at straws are the ones calling for a coach to be fired mid season, while no one is even mentioning who his replacement would be. Who do you think our head coach should be? Scott Sutton? I bet he would even say that firing Boynton is a bad idea.

Do you honestly think you can get a better coach here right now for what Mike Holder is paying? Let me remind you that Boynton has the #1 projected NBA draft pick coming in next year and possibly a top 10 recruiting class. I don't think you can find another coach who can do that for what Holder is currently paying.

No one likes where we are right now as a program. But I don't think firing someone helps anything right now.
Did I say anything about firing him mid season? Those people aren’t necessarily grasping at straws, that phrase doesn’t fit. Would firing Boynton mid season be a good move? No. Not at all. It would be stupid for many many reasons. But, using the argument that he has Cunningham coming is a bit old. Again, Smart and Nash on the same team. Definitely sweet sixteen right? No. Not even close. You have to have a real coach. I’m beginning to think we don’t have one, but there’s still time for him to prove me wrong. He has all of next year to prove me wrong. And I hope like hell he does.

I’ll probably start a new thread when I have some time. There are some things I would like to show many on this board about what good basketball actually looks like, even without talent.
 

wrenhal

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A little perspective is needed for this comparison. Baylor was a terrible basketball program when they hired Scott Drew. They hadn't made the NCAA tournament since the mid 80's, and they had only made the NCAA tournament 4 times in the history of their program. Not only that, they were fresh off the Dave Bliss scandal. Their roster was blown up, and they had significant NCAA penalties to deal with.

Scott Drew inherited a terrible program that had been recently decimated by scandal. Mike Boynton inherited a program that had been to the NCAA tournament 4 of the previous 5 years. Despite all of his hardships at Baylor, Drew was 53-30 after his first 3 seasons. (Boynton is currently 42-43.)
Also, the landscape of college basketball has changed drastically since Drew started at Baylor. With new transfer rules, some teams have turned it around overnight. College basketball isn't played the same way, either. It's watered down. Lots of opportunities for well coached teams to have success.

There's just not a valid excuse for this team being as bad as it is. That said, I think HCMB needs through the 2021 season before possibly being dismissed.
Are you saying 20-21 or 21-22?

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POPOKE

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National signee rankings under Coach Boynton:
Kentravious Jones - #357
Zack Dawson - #125
Isaac Likekely - #156
Yor Anei - #267
Duncan Demuth - #330
Maurice Calloo - #340
Marcus Watson - #88
Avery Anderson - #122
Chris Harris - #128
Kalib Boone - #139
Keylan Boone - #375
Cade Cunningham - #2
Rondel Walker - #92
Montreal Pena - #333
Average signee ranking: #204

I'm not going to list all of the high school signees under Coach Ford, but our average ranking during that era was #147.

I'm tired of hearing the "lack of talent" excuse. There are only 3 players on the roster that Coach Boynton didn't recruit. They're all starting, and they're just as highly rated as the average player he's brought in. Our current coaching staff should shoulder the majority of the blame if our talent level isn't where it needs to be.

Everyone talks about how great of a recruiter Coach Boynton is, but much of that is centered around Cade Cunningham. CC was a big time commit, but he's an anomaly since we hired his brother to get him. I think it's fair to ask the question of how good of a recruiter HCMB really is, especially considering all of the defections.

/Rant. I support Coach Boynton and his program, but I'm just frustrated and worried about the future. Go Pokes!
Star averages is not a good way to evaluate classes in my opinion. Just look at this year on 247. Kentucky is currently #1 with an average star ranking of 89. We're at #18 with an average star of 92.

As others have said, Boynton has recruited better every year. If he continues to retain players at a better rate, the talent will be here. Hopefully it'll be enough talent to make up for on the job coaching training.
 
Mar 27, 2008
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Is anyone really surprised about where we are though? Like really? Did you think 3 years ago when Mike Holder decided not to bring in an established coach that we wouldn't be bottom feeders of the Big12? We all hoped we wouldn't be but it's not like it's a shocker that we are where we are. Mike Holder didn't want to pay for a proven basketball coach so we had to gamble on a first time head coach and hope for the best. It still could work out in the long run who knows, but lets not act like it's a shocker that we are here.
 

MustangPokeFan

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I respectfully disagree. I think the people grasping at straws are the ones calling for a coach to be fired mid season, while no one is even mentioning who his replacement would be. Who do you think our head coach should be? Scott Sutton? I bet he would even say that firing Boynton is a bad idea.

Do you honestly think you can get a better coach here right now for what Mike Holder is paying? Let me remind you that Boynton has the #1 projected NBA draft pick coming in next year and possibly a top 10 recruiting class. I don't think you can find another coach who can do that for what Holder is currently paying.

No one likes where we are right now as a program. But I don't think firing someone helps anything right now.
Did I say anything about firing him mid season? Those people aren’t necessarily grasping at straws, that phrase doesn’t fit. Would firing Boynton mid season be a good move? No. Not at all. It would be stupid for many many reasons. But, using the argument that he has Cunningham coming is a bit old. Again, Smart and Nash on the same team. Definitely sweet sixteen right? No. Not even close. You have to have a real coach. I’m beginning to think we don’t have one, but there’s still time for him to prove me wrong. He has all of next year to prove me wrong. And I hope like hell he does.

I’ll probably start a new thread when I have some time. There are some things I would like to show many on this board about what good basketball actually looks like, even without talent.
I’m sure Coach Boynton is incredibly moved and grateful beyond words that PTAK’s Newspaper is benevolently granting him another year! He’s probably moved to tears of joy!
 
Oct 30, 2007
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Star averages is not a good way to evaluate classes in my opinion. Just look at this year on 247. Kentucky is currently #1 with an average star ranking of 89. We're at #18 with an average star of 92.

As others have said, Boynton has recruited better every year. If he continues to retain players at a better rate, the talent will be here. Hopefully it'll be enough talent to make up for on the job coaching training.
The list I posted was based off 247's individual prospect rankings. They typically rank the top 500 prospects every year. Kentucky has 6 signees this year that are all ranked in the top 50. Their average ranking is 24.
 
Nov 2, 2004
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Stop it with the logic, lol.

Seriously, anyone who compares Boynton taking over our program to Drew taking over Baylor’s program is grasping at straws to defend Boynton. It’s kind of like a few in here who were calling out the “haters” during halftime today. Some people on this board just don’t get it. I don’t mean this as a negative toward Boynton, but Bozo the Clown could be our coach and some would still defend 3 straight unsuccessful seasons.
There were people still defending TF when he was finally let go...MBB isn't the same as football if you can't show improvement in 2.5 years...that is on the coach. MB will get until next year just because of the recruiting class coming in, but he is in over his head.
 

wrenhal

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Is anyone really surprised about where we are though? Like really? Did you think 3 years ago when Mike Holder decided not to bring in an established coach that we wouldn't be bottom feeders of the Big12? We all hoped we wouldn't be but it's not like it's a shocker that we are where we are. Mike Holder didn't want to pay for a proven basketball coach so we had to gamble on a first time head coach and hope for the best. It still could work out in the long run who knows, but lets not act like it's a shocker that we are here.
Not like any were beating down the doors. And other people's answer to Boynton was Gottlieb. Any belief we'd be better at this point?

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Fly

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The staff Gottlieb would have put together and brought to Stillwater would have given us a better chance for success. On a positive note I watched Cade Cunningham play the other night and he is a special talent. I can’t see Ice being more than a backup next year with his lack of shooting ability.
 
Aug 16, 2012
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Not like any were beating down the doors. And other people's answer to Boynton was Gottlieb. Any belief we'd be better at this point?

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The staff Gottlieb would have put together and brought to Stillwater would have given us a better chance for success.
The second quote is just specious. Not founded on any fact, just an opinion presented as a fact. An opinion whose premise is not based on anything other than an affinity for Gottlieb and/or dislike for Boynton.

On record as opposing the DG experiment but I find it quite telling that part of DG's illustrious staff included a guy who BLATANTLY coaxed a kid to move across the state so he could play basketball at said coach's school AND gave his family $11.5k to do it. The kid is now ineligible and run out of school, but not before playing three games after the NCAA indicated his eligibility was in question. If you do not think the NCAA is up in Memphis's nose right now, you are not paying attention. Yeah. By all means. Let us marvel at what could have been.

Edit----But Gottlieb has worked on his coaching resume. He subbed in as the coach for Team23 during the TBT (The Basketball Tournament which is a national all-comers tournament that quite frankly you will probably be seeing on ESPN before long if it is not already there) this year. Team23 was in the championship game of the tournament four years ago. Booted in the first round under Gottlieb this year.
 
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Fly

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I have no affinity to DG on what kind of coach he may or could become. We will never know for fact what a DG staff would of consisted of or how they would of performed. What I do know about MB and staff is that their performance has been poor overall. I’ll go record by saying I Like MB and he seems like really nice guy. I’m not sure how good he is as a head coach. In the short time he’s been here our coach he and his staff has shown very little progress in the development/performance of his teams. I understand in his 1st season the team just missed the tourney. He’s recruited players that have gotten themselves dismissed, but that’s on Boyton. I’m hoping he succeeds, but it’s time to show progress in building the OSU program back. These times remind me so much of the Leonard Hamilton days. Good Recruiter takes over in Stillwater recruits very well and his win/lose record is stuck in a mediocrity year after year 15-15. Hire coach Sutton with Hamilton’s talent soon we make the tourney every year.
 

CPTNQUIRK

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I have no affinity to DG on what kind of coach he may or could become. We will never know for fact what a DG staff would of have consisted of or how they would of have performed. What I do know about MB and staff is that their performance has been poor overall......
FIFY. Sorry about being the grammar nazi, but that is one of my pet peeves.
 

MustangPokeFan

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I have no affinity to DG on what kind of coach he may or could become. We will never know for fact what a DG staff would of consisted of or how they would of performed. What I do know about MB and staff is that their performance has been poor overall. I’ll go record by saying I Like MB and he seems like really nice guy. I’m not sure how good he is as a head coach. In the short time he’s been here our coach he and his staff has shown very little progress in the development/performance of his teams. I understand in his 1st season the team just missed the tourney. He’s recruited players that have gotten themselves dismissed, but that’s on Boynton. I’m hoping he succeeds, but it’s time to show progress in building the OSU program back. These times remind me so much of the Leonard Hamilton days. Good Recruiter takes over in Stillwater recruits very well and his win/lose record is stuck in a mediocrity year after year 15-15. Hire coach Sutton with Hamilton’s talent soon we make the tourney every year.
Hamilton would have been successful with the team that he handed to Sutton as well. He left and went to FSU and proved it. Boynton will be successful. He's already set the stage with a great class coming in next year. The only thing that remains to be seen is if the naysayers like you run him off and he does it elsewhere or whether he does it here. There are no Suttons waiting out there to have a swan song with their alma mater after a fall from grace. We would be hard pressed to do better than Boynton. If he does not produce wins he will eventually lose his job. Why not support him now while he's putting together the circumstances and people to bring wins. When they do come, you really don't deserve to be a part of enjoying them when you've been nothing but a source of criticism while he does the hard work to right the program.
 

Well

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We would be hard pressed to do better than Boynton
Same verse, different song. This has become a rather tired argument. It's highly doubtful Boynton gets the axe this year. From the recruiting he has done with, the freshman this year, and Cunningham next year, he should be given next year to prove his worth. The issue I see, is that the longer this losing streak goes, the shorter the leash for next year. In other words, he had better win big next year, (young team no excuse)or he will likely see himself gone.
 
Jan 13, 2008
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These times remind me so much of the Leonard Hamilton days. Good Recruiter takes over in Stillwater recruits very well and his win/lose record is stuck in a mediocrity year after year 15-15.
2012-13 and 2013-14 teams lead by Travis Ford, actually remind me of Leonard Hamilton.

"Stuck in mediocrity" might be a little over-kill for Hamilton. He was only here for 4 years and we went from 8-20 (0 NBA players), 8-16 (2 NBA), 17-13 (4 NBA), to 17-14 (3 NBA). OSU basketball actually improved under Leonard Hamilton, but it was his first head coach gig and he was learning.

Eddie was just such a great and experienced coach, it made Hamilton look worse than he really was. In Eddie's first year OSU went 24-8 with 2 NBA players.
 

Birry

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My only criteria for keeping Boynton is that we see incremental improvements in his coaching. Can he progress? Can he make mistakes, analyze what went wrong, develop a new approach, and implement the new approach in a way that improves the team? So far, I haven't seen it. It's primarily been "trust the process" and "just gotta keep shooting" or "aw shucks, we just got outcoached, and it's my fault" followed by repeats of the previous approach (very similar to the recent Gundy approach). As a fan, that is not what I want to see from a head coach.
 
Aug 16, 2012
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I have no affinity to DG on what kind of coach he may or could become. We will never know for fact what a DG staff would of consisted of or how they would of performed
Then how the hell can you state in your very first OP post that he would be a better coach than Boynton?