Tiger Woods

How about Edwin Moses? I’m a huge fan of both Jordan and Tiger but Edwin is arguably the most dominating sports figure of all time.

“For nine years, nine months and nine days, Moses was the undisputed king of the 400 hurdles. From Aug. 26, 1977, to June 4, 1987, Moses finished first in 122 consecutive races, including 107 finals.”

I remember watching him when I was a little kid and I was amazed at his ability to pull off win after win.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwin_Moses

Really good point Pawnee.....

Watched him as a kid too....my dad was a hurdler, loved to watch Moses run...

Donnyboy,

Edwin Moses (400m hurdles) and Renaldo Nehemiah (110m hurdles) were both great hurdlers back in the day. I ended up running both events in middle school and high school and these guys were like rock stars for any kid running those events back then.

Moses was great at what he did ... the one event 400m hurdles. If I remember correctly, he could get from hurdle to hurdle in one less stride than anybody else ... gave him his advantage. He's a great athlete in my mind. But if you're gonna go with track, I'd put Carl Lewis over him and Jesse Owens before than ... and you can throw Jim Thorpe in there on track alone based on his Oympic performance way back when ... 1908 or 1912, whenever. And that doesn't even get into the decathalon guys ... Paul (probably Bob) Richards 2 golds in the 50s, etc.

OK, DB, back to Jack and Tiger. Maybe this goes to which is the better golfer. Anyway, try to keep this brief ... a few paragraphs. Conclusion first ... Tiger better ... Jack faced better golfers with the likes of Palmer/Player/Watson/Trevino than Tiger has faced ... but the overall fields are much better now than then ... so in Jack's day, there may have been 5-10 guys with a real chance of winning the Opens and now it's 20-30.

Take a look at Jack's rivals and major tourney performance ... top 3 finishes. Player won 9, 6 seconds, 3 thirds ... Palmer won 7, 10 seconds, 2 thirds ... Watson won 8, 7 seconds, 2 thirds ... Trevino won 6, 2 seconds, 1 third. Palmer was Jack's big rival till he faded after 68. Player had a long career at the top and went at it with Jack for 2 decades ... 60s and 70s. About the time Player faded away ... along came Watson. He caught Jack on the back end of his career ... 1977-1982 he went heads up with Jack down the stretch of the Masters, British (both 77) and US Open (82) and came out on top each time. Cost Jack 3 major wins. Jack almost always had Arnie's number heads up (62 and 67 US Opens, 65 Masters). Player seemed to win one every so often and over 2 decades that adds up to 9. Trevino got Jack in the middle of his career ... took him heads up twice in US Opens (68 and 71) and once at British Open (72) ... cost Jack 3 more wins. Then in his prime, with 5 major wins, lightning struck him in 75, messed up his back and spine and he never was as good again.

Take a minute to look at the majors in the 60s and 70s. The Masters had a smaller field then than now and 8 of the spots were reserved for amateurs (cause it was Jones's tournament and he never turned pro). The British Open had lousy fields cause the Europeans and rest of world ... save USA and Gary Player ... weren't very good. That started to change in 76 when Ballesteros came on the scene, when Jack was 36. The US Opens and PGA's haven't changed all that much, except they're both packed with top players from all over the world now. So it was easier back then to be one of the best ... much easier to be, say, number 10, than it is today. Wouldn't go so far as to say it's easier to be number 1, 2 or 3 ... as the top 3 from each era could probably hold their own against the top 3 in any other era, least that's my view.

Now look at Tiger's rivals. If you can remember them ... a testament to Tiger more than a knock on them. There's Phil ... in my view probably the most underappreciated golfer of the past 30 years. His major record as of now ... just turned 38 ... 3 wins, 5 seconds and 6 thirds. Ernie Els ... same age as Phil ... 3 wins, 6 seconds, 4 thirds. That's about it ... you could throw in Vijay (Singh) ... 3 wins, 1 second, 5 thirds. He's 45 so that's probably about if for him.

Do the comparison of these rivals ... hard not to conclude Jack's main rivals were better. I think they were. But I think Phil is just as good as Watson and Watson was almost as good as Player and Palmer. Phil still has some years left ... he'll pass Watson in career PGA wins ... 39 for Watson, Phil as 34. He'll never get to 8 major wins, but he might get to 5 and he'll get some more top 3s. Same for Ernie, he's not done, although I doubt he'll do as well as Phil in, say, the next 5 years. But you have to remember Tiger's only 32 and at 32, Jack didn't have Watson yet as a rival and was really just getting going in the one with Trevino. So it's unfair to Tiger to compare Jack's rivals over his entire career to Tiger's as of now. Rivals will come along for Tiger in the next 5-10 years, just like Watson came along for Jack. And those rivals might be enough when added in with Phil/Ernie to make it look fairly even ... although Jack's rivals will still probably look somewhat better. But any way you look at it, I'm about certain the right view is the overall fields ... everybody else below the top 5 ... is way better today than it was when Jack was playing.

Bottom line for me ... and original question of thread ... is Tiger best golfer ever. Yep. If he stops winning right now, doesn't bag another major, doesn't win but another 10 PGA tournaments, then I'll change my answer to Jack best and Tiger second, with Hogan right around there too (shade beneath) and Jones not comparable in any way that would be real accurate.

Tiger needed Duvall not to collapse....he was a better younger rival, maybe not a better golfer than Phil but a better rival because right or wrong everyone kind of expects Phil to mess up.....Tiger obviously better but Duvall had so much promise and then BOOM nothing.

Hell of job keeping it short.....


That was a seriously good breakdown.....it's hard to say Tiger isn't the best, probably personal feelings are the only thing that merits any other opinion.

Good point on Duval. Followed the game/sport a long time, so most of it just thinking back on past ... plus the help from my new buddy ... Wiki ... to get the seconds and thirds at majors. Hard to remember those.

Maybe the best athlete of my life (being 30) is Bo Jackson.....

Phenom in college......baseball, track (when he ran) and of course football. He was a bigger, stronger Dion Sanders from the double threat perspective. His homeruns are legendary.....still known for his hit on the Boz.

He was speed, size, strength, agility.....I would hate to see what he did to the field in a decathalon.

There are others to mention here but he has to be in the argument.

But could he qualify for the US Open?

Pokes28,

I still remember to this day sitting in front of the tv watching when Powell beat Carl Lewis back in 1991 to end the long jump streak. He beat Lewis by like 3 inches on a day where Carl had his longest jump of his career.

Powell also dunked from the free throw line in a battle of the stars type thing.....speaking of dunks......The dunk over the goal posts TO did was measured by the Observer (not exactly the NYT but they did a convincing job) using a computer to plot the field at 14.9 feet....he dunked easy from essentially the free throw line in full football pads......impressive.

Bo Knows Golf.

If Tiger hit a ball into the water, would it turn into wine?

Will he ever do so so that we can find out?

Well, the International Olympic Committee weighed in with their Athlete of the Century (20th) in 1999. I was vaguely correct in an earlier post. Any non-googled guesses?

Jim Thorpe....
Jesse Owens.....
Some dude with Von in his name....

Nope.

World's most popular sport.........

Bo ... I think of him, too, when I think of best athletes of last 30 years or so. Dion too, but Bo more.

28, good question on whether Jack was best for any period and, if so, when. I'd say he was the best from 65-67 and clearly the best from 72-75 ... was about equal with Arnie from 62-64 and was maybe the best in 70-71. He slumped in 68-69 and wasn't the best ... but was still right up there. Watson became the best beginning in 77 ... but Jack was barely behind him in 77-78. Then Jack was probably as good as Watson in 80 ... but overall from 77-80 Watson was better. Watson remained the best thru 83 or 84, then he faded, much like Arnie did in the late 60s ... the big wins just never happened again. Jack stayed very near the top thru age 42 in 1982 and he was still in the top few in 83-84. After that his play went down, but he did manage that great Masters win in 86. And somehow he managed to finish 6th in the Masters at age 58 in 1998.

Jack didn't take his physical conditioning very seriously. Not too many of them did till Tiger came along. Given Tiger's conditioning program and how good he is ... he might do some things nobody has ever dreamed of ... like still be the best at 45. I think he's got a real shot at it ... but that knee might end up getting in the way.

Pele Von Bubka

Now you are getting it. But Pele is Brazilian, so it is not "von Bubka" it is "do Bubka."

Was it really Pele..... I was going to say that but didn't think they would give it to a soccer player given all the outstanding individual performances.