Why Californians Are Starved of Water

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msq2

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#21
You understand very little about production agriculture, and apparently very little about politics. California politics has been dominated by the liberal left and the environmental activists for years. We could very easily flip this discussion from water to power generation, in light of California's frequent brown-outs, and the theme and conclusions would be the same. Liberals and their misplaced priorities and absence of logic.
I believe it was Feinstein, who in the middle of a severe drought and talks of water rationing, that stated it was "every Californian's God-given right to wash their car".
You gotta be shi**in' me!!!
There are quotas and other tariffs that artificially reward the production of food that can only be grown in certain locations in the country. Allow a greater portion of fruits and vegetables to come from central and south america and there would be less of a reason to grow in california. With less farms, less workers are needed, and more jobs in migrants home countries. The math isn't that hard.
 

ksupoke

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#22
You understand very little about production agriculture, and apparently very little about politics. California politics has been dominated by the liberal left and the environmental activists for years. We could very easily flip this discussion from water to power generation, in light of California's frequent brown-outs, and the theme and conclusions would be the same. Liberals and their misplaced priorities and absence of logic.
I believe it was Feinstein, who in the middle of a severe drought and talks of water rationing, that stated it was "every Californian's God-given right to wash their car".
You gotta be shi**in' me!!!
I'm as anti-liberal as any God fear'in American, but on the issue of water, Feinstein has actually been one of the few democrats who has worked with the republicans on a bill, mainly headed by Nunes(r) (or Nunez, don't know for sure), that would have rolled back much of the law that diverted so much water to the delta and would have dramatically modified the San Joaquin River restoration, not gotten rid of it just changed it so that it was fair. The bill passed congress on a party line vote, probably would have gained senate approval and then likely been vetoed and there was no dem support to override a veto. So she tabled it last year and said she would bring it back up this year, I don't know if she has or not.
She is probably doing it for monetary gain, she ain't getting any younger and only has so many years left to build up her fortune, but that's ok, never look a gift horse in the mouth.
 

CaliforniaCowboy

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#23
because the State is run by a bunch of left-wing nut jobs.

They're rather build a high speed train to nowhere, than do something simple like build a pipeline to pump the delta water back to the top of the delta just before it becomes brackish and reaches the Bay.

Freaking morons.
 
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#25
There are quotas and other tariffs that artificially reward the production of food that can only be grown in certain locations in the country. Allow a greater portion of fruits and vegetables to come from central and south america and there would be less of a reason to grow in california. With less farms, less workers are needed, and more jobs in migrants home countries. The math isn't that hard.
Eutopia, huh? I am all about free trade and letting markets work, but you do realize that we are the best fed nation in the world and spend only a fraction of our disposable income on food as most of the countries of the world. There are other considerations also, lest we "out-source" our agriculture production, and the allied industries and infrastructure that support it, to the same level that we have manufacturing and industry. The bill is coming due for all the wealth that we are exporting out of this country. Our trade deficit is a significant portion of the noose of national debt, and agriculture is one of the segments of our international trade that is still black ink.
Just because land and labor might be cheaper in other parts of the world, production efficiencies and scale are often limiting factors in meeting demand, and when supply goes down, price goes up, regardless of production costs/unit.
 
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#26
I'm as anti-liberal as any God fear'in American, but on the issue of water, Feinstein has actually been one of the few democrats who has worked with the republicans on a bill, mainly headed by Nunes(r) (or Nunez, don't know for sure), that would have rolled back much of the law that diverted so much water to the delta and would have dramatically modified the San Joaquin River restoration, not gotten rid of it just changed it so that it was fair. The bill passed congress on a party line vote, probably would have gained senate approval and then likely been vetoed and there was no dem support to override a veto. So she tabled it last year and said she would bring it back up this year, I don't know if she has or not.
She is probably doing it for monetary gain, she ain't getting any younger and only has so many years left to build up her fortune, but that's ok, never look a gift horse in the mouth.
"I believe it is our God-given right as Californians to be able to water gardens and lawns." U.S. Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) November 21, 2004

Sorry, i misquoted, but the point still remains. The statement was made during discussions about water rationing. Insanely idiotic.
 

ksupoke

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#27
"I believe it is our God-given right as Californians to be able to water gardens and lawns." U.S. Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) November 21, 2004

Sorry, i misquoted, but the point still remains. The statement was made during discussions about water rationing. Insanely idiotic.
You don't have to apologize, I've been here going on 30 years now, I knew what you meant and I knew what she said, she was eviscorated in the press when she said it and she has said some other equally ridiculous things but as far as liberals in Ca, the fact remains she's one of precious few who have tried to help in a way other than charging more for water. Like I said it is probably more about financial gain for her and her hubby but she seems to have a better handle on our water situation than most other liberals out here.
 
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#28
While production agriculture has its own task of increasing water use efficiency, agriculture is not the primary segment of society that shares the shame of water waste and misuse, as @msq2 insinuates. Much like Las Vegas, California has millions of people living in places that it really doesn't make sense to develop but, because water is cheap and can be relocated, people act illogically. And to think, msq2 wants to send our agricultural production out-of-country so that more people can move to these arid places, fill their pools with water, wash their cars, and irrigate their manicured lawns.

"Civilized people should be able to dispose of sewage in a better way than by putting it in the drinking water." Theodore Roosevelt, 1910

Regardless of your political persuasion or profession, if you are truly interested in the subject of water (and all of us should be), I would like to highly recommend the following read:

Unquenchable: America's Water Crisis and What to do About it
Robert Glenon, Morris K. Udall Professor of Law and Public Policy
Rogers College of Law, University of Arizona
 
Feb 6, 2007
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#31
The answer is just to left of the state.....
May be part of the "answer" but, at this point, probably cost-prohibitive. Very, very expensive.
However, and regardless, Californians should be left to solve their problem themselves. They have created their mess, and I don't want my federal tax dollars helping them fund further dubious solutions.
 

SLVRBK

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#32
The largest desal plant in The Americas is currently under construction outside San Diego and San Diego has a contract to purchase it's entire output for the next 30 year. The plant should start operations in 2016.

The article from the Sacremento Bee late last year provide info on the plant, other desal project/history in Cali, and technologies. http://www.sacbee.com/news/state/california/water-and-drought/article3017597.html

it has taken 15 years and 14 legal challenges to get to this poit.
 

ksupoke

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#33
I'm not as eloquent or intelligent as many on here, in my book a spade's a spade. I know just a little about the water issues in this state and I have a $500 water bill to prove it, our water rationing is based on what you used last year, so those of us who have been reasonable with water consumption in the past got our asses kicked because now we are forced to cut back another 20% from last years usage or face substantial penalties, thus the $500 bill, meaning if you were running water 24/7 last year you still only have to cut back 20%.
Now let's look at the State's solution, forget the tripe about superfluous issues, pollution, runoff, etc... and focus on what the state and the fed have done to exacerbate the situation. We have a non-native fish species in the delta, striped bass, it is the #1 predator of the delta smelt, the same minnow that is on the endangered list and resulted in, to date, over 30m acre feet of water being redirected to the delta and subsequently to the Pacific, where it become useless. You would think logically that to 'protect' the species you would increase or even eliminate limits on taking stripers afterall they are non-native and do damage to the ecosystem (one of the tolerant's and liberal's favorite cries, save the ecosystem) that wouldn't ordinarily occur without them, Instead they decreased the limit and the size of what you can take, ensuring, according to local biologists, the eventual demise of the same minnow that billions have been spent protecting.

Yes, liberals are primarily to blame both state and federal one of the reasons you cannot say democrats is that in Ca there are an abundant supply of liberal republicans.
 

Donnyboy

Lettin' the high times carry the low....
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#34
May be part of the "answer" but, at this point, probably cost-prohibitive. Very, very expensive.
However, and regardless, Californians should be left to solve their problem themselves. They have created their mess, and I don't want my federal tax dollars helping them fund further dubious solutions.
My old man ran a de-sal plant in the gulf it's not expensive.....and certainly not as expensive as draining the whole west half of the country like we are now. Nearsightedness not expense is why we aren't de-saling on both coasts
 

ksupoke

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#35
http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Desalination-plants-a-pricey-option-if-drought-5239096.php


The agencies' officials emphasized they would explore other options such as conservation, recycling and tapping new groundwater wells before turning to desalination. But even the prospect of the plant opening has some environmentalists concerned.

New plants require electricity that puts more greenhouse gases in the air, when simple conservation methods should be encouraged instead, some say. There is also the possibility that the pumps could suck in and kill small marine organisms and fish such as the endangered delta smelt
 

StillwaterTownie

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#36
because the State is run by a bunch of left-wing nut jobs.

They're rather build a high speed train to nowhere, than do something simple like build a pipeline to pump the delta water back to the top of the delta just before it becomes brackish and reaches the Bay.

Freaking morons.
Christian radio host explains weather: Gays and Hollywood witchcraft cause California’s drought
A Christian broadcaster who specializes in “end times” predictions claimed that the drought that California is currently suffering through is the result of God withholding rain from the state to punish it for abortion, homosexuality, and witchcraft, according to Right Wing Watch.

On his TruNews broadcast, host Rick Wiles called California “the forefront of spiritual rebellion against God,” and said that God had “no choice to cut off the rain.”

Wiles noted that the state recently enacted what he called “lame” water conservation measures such as limiting watering of yards, and restaurants only serving water by request.

A NASA scientist recently warned that the state only has one year’s worth of water left unless extreme measures are taken.

Wiles — who recently said that Ebola would cleanse the world of gays and “the promiscuous” – called California’s water travails a “mega-drought,” and laid the blame at the feet of homosexuals and the “depravity” of the Golden State’s citizens.

“Rain will follow repentance,” Wiles said. “The state is in the forefront of spiritual rebellion against God: abortion; homosexuality; pornography; Hollywood’s movies that promote sexual immorality, violence, bloodshed, witchcraft, occult practices; the television industry; the crime and street violence in California cities. All of it has combined to reach a level of depravity that has reached Heaven and God has no other choice but to cut off the rain.”

Not all is lost though, as Wiles pointed out that repenting before God might compel him to make it rain.

“So let’s see how long Californians will suffer without water before they humble themselves, repent of their sins and call upon God to save them.”
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/03/...llywood-witchcraft-cause-californias-drought/
 

StillwaterTownie

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#37
I'm not as eloquent or intelligent as many on here, in my book a spade's a spade. I know just a little about the water issues in this state and I have a $500 water bill to prove it, our water rationing is based on what you used last year, so those of us who have been reasonable with water consumption in the past got our asses kicked because now we are forced to cut back another 20% from last years usage or face substantial penalties, thus the $500 bill, meaning if you were running water 24/7 last year you still only have to cut back 20%.
Now let's look at the State's solution, forget the tripe about superfluous issues, pollution, runoff, etc... and focus on what the state and the fed have done to exacerbate the situation. We have a non-native fish species in the delta, striped bass, it is the #1 predator of the delta smelt, the same minnow that is on the endangered list and resulted in, to date, over 30m acre feet of water being redirected to the delta and subsequently to the Pacific, where it become useless. You would think logically that to 'protect' the species you would increase or even eliminate limits on taking stripers afterall they are non-native and do damage to the ecosystem (one of the tolerant's and liberal's favorite cries, save the ecosystem) that wouldn't ordinarily occur without them, Instead they decreased the limit and the size of what you can take, ensuring, according to local biologists, the eventual demise of the same minnow that billions have been spent protecting.

Yes, liberals are primarily to blame both state and federal one of the reasons you cannot say democrats is that in Ca there are an abundant supply of liberal republicans.
My goodness, you should move to Oklahoma to escape all that. My water bill last month was $13.86. The water source is drought proof from an Oklahoma drought.

There's surely plenty of people who still think it's cool to move to California, so the situation there can only get worse, especially if the drought persists. Since 2010, California has increased its population by 4.16% vs 3.38% for Oklahoma. Oklahoma Republicans still need some help in turning Oklahoma far enough to the right to suit their agenda.
 

steross

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#38
My goodness, you should move to Oklahoma to escape all that. My water bill last month was $13.86. The water source is drought proof from an Oklahoma drought.

There's surely plenty of people who still think it's cool to move to California, so the situation there can only get worse, especially if the drought persists. Since 2010, California has increased its population by 4.16% vs 3.38% for Oklahoma. Oklahoma Republicans still need some help in turning Oklahoma far enough to the right to suit their agenda.
Obviously, there is more to choosing a place to live than the local politics and the price of water.
 
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#39
Obviously, there is more to choosing a place to live than the local politics and the price of water.
My sister lived about 90 miles east of LA, close to the desert in the early 2000s when enron was manipulating the energy prices out there. They had 3-400 dollar electricity bills and blamed it on price manipulation. I said....dont expect your house to be 64 degrees in the summer in a freaking desert!!!!
 
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#40
My sister lived about 90 miles east of LA, close to the desert in the early 2000s when enron was manipulating the energy prices out there. They had 3-400 dollar electricity bills and blamed it on price manipulation. I said....dont expect your house to be 64 degrees in the summer in a freaking desert!!!!
They have to charge exorbitant prices for electricity to discourage useage, since they have not built new power plants to keep up with demand. The Eco-radicals have condemned the state to brown-outs and relying on neighboring states to sell them electricity.