Why we may have seen peak Gundy in 2011

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Sep 24, 2011
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#1
From Gundy's second year until 2011 we steadily climbed the ladder of success. Since then, we have steadily declined, overall. What ignited that 2010-2011 surge? Gundy hired Holgy and Monken to run the offense, and they only came with the promise to be left alone. If Gundy messed with them, they would quickly tell him to take a leap. They could go to many schools. Then Gundy hired Yurcich. Only an apologist would argue that Gundy does not completely controls Yurcich.

The very formula that led to peak Gundy, ended up being its demise. Gundy began to believe he could plug and play any assistant or coordinator into his "culture", and the wins would keep coming. The fall would have happened sooner if not for the decline of Tech, Texas, and Baylor. So we are back to Gundy's second year, program wise. But with a big difference. A head coach who stubbornly believes the culture he has built is enough to be successful.

Rudolph and Washington were great enough to overcome the OL woes, defensive failures, and awful game plans. We are now back to the place we need bold, innovative coaches to overcome our talent deficiencies. But 2011 has convinced Gundy we are fine. That is why we may have seen peak Gundy.
 
Sep 23, 2018
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#2
Your point about who our offensive coords were around the time is most telling. Because we have to consider not only what plays they call, but what recruits they get to run those plays. I guess Mason was recruited by Yurcich? Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Kinda odd to think about. :unsure:
 
Jul 25, 2018
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#3
Disagree with the notion "we have steadily declined, overall."

Posting 10 wins most years ('12 & '14 were the exceptions) & playing a single game for the Big 12 title 3 different times in 6 years isn't a steady decline, imo. That's literally ONE game (Bedlam) worse than the '11 team did, & I'll go to my grave saying Justin Gilbert had the INT to seal the Big 12 title, btw.

Now, having said that, do I like what may seem like complacency from Gundy at times? No. Am I sick to death of the mullet/rattlesnake/shirtless routine? Absolutely.

Lastly, I'm like others in that I think he's stubborn to a fault with his QB's. Life's great when there's a clear cut starter, otherwise, he sucks at picking the right guy at QB.
 
Oct 18, 2013
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#4
This is about as accurate of an analysis as I've seen. Understand, I am NOT anti-Gundy in the slightest, but he does need an ego check. I think it's more than fair to say we've been in a steady decline over the past few years, despite what the record indicates. We've ultimately ended up with a good record most years thanks to talent and basically the entire conference save OU being "down" - in spite of coaching, play calling, and other issues. It was easy to overlook the obvious issues in the past because we were winning, but now they're catching up to us and something needs to be done.
 
Oct 30, 2007
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#5
It's funny to go back and compare statistics between years. We ranked 2nd in the country in scoring offense back in 2011. We ranked 2nd in the country in scoring offense last season. We scored more points last year against OU than in 2011. Heck we scored more points against Iowa State this season than in 2011.

The real difference in 2011 & 2017 is our defense was ranked 25 spots higher in scoring defense and they led the nation in turnovers. We had some elite playmakers on that side of the ball like Justin Gilbert, Markelle Martin, and Shaun Lewis.

Everyone's trying to figure out what we have to do to take the next step as a program. I don't think we take that next step by being perfect on offense. I think we have to recruit at a higher level and upgrade our defense.
 
May 4, 2011
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#6
We've clearly seen Gundy peak. I don't see how that's up for debate. The two key questions are does he continue returning back to near peak and, relatedly, are we satisfied with frequently getting close to, but not surpassing that peak? I'll be honest, I have no idea for number 1, but I am satisfied for the time being with 2. If he can keep getting close to that 2011 peak (i.e., repeatedly get 9 and 10 win seasons and be competitive for the conference championship), let Gundy retire amicably in 5 to 10 and take your time getting the right hire in place. I don't have data on it, but that seems to have a much better outcome long term than firing your program defining head coach.

I'm sure that's not a popular opinion, but the coaching landscape is just littered with too many implosions after firing successful coaches to even think about firing a guy who continues to deliver seasons better than the school has ever had historically. The conversation changes obviously, if Gundy can't pull it back together after this year. My gut says he can't, which is sincerely sad after seeing what he's done for the program, but he deserves the chance to prove us (all?) wrong.

As a side note, Baylor replaced Tech as the non-blue blood serious competitor for most of the time you're referring to. Baylor is doing better this year than their history pre Briles. If Baylor returned to their normal form before the Tech decline, they'd be just as much a cupcake as Kansas. The Texas decline and conference implosion are the differences in conference competitiveness.
 

Rack

Federal Marshal
Oct 13, 2004
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#7
It's funny to go back and compare statistics between years. We ranked 2nd in the country in scoring offense back in 2011. We ranked 2nd in the country in scoring offense last season. We scored more points last year against OU than in 2011. Heck we scored more points against Iowa State this season than in 2011.

The real difference in 2011 & 2017 is our defense was ranked 25 spots higher in scoring defense and they led the nation in turnovers. We had some elite playmakers on that side of the ball like Justin Gilbert, Markelle Martin, and Shaun Lewis.

Everyone's trying to figure out what we have to do to take the next step as a program. I don't think we take that next step by being perfect on offense. I think we have to recruit at a higher level and upgrade our defense.
Ding Ding Ding we have a winner! Defense IS the problem...and has been since 2011. Until we don't suck on defense we will never win a title...that is why Gundy let go our loyal long term DC last year...you can argue all you want that he controls OCMY but he did let a friend go in our last DC so it's not a total lost cause as far as control goes. Our problems are no on offense...they are squarely offensive defense and special special teams.
 
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NotOnTV

BRB -- Taking an okie leak
Sep 14, 2010
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#8
Make no mistake -- in this case number of wins can very well mask the underpinnings of a steady decline. The horrific home performances against TCU and KState last are prime examples.
 

Rack

Federal Marshal
Oct 13, 2004
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#9
We've clearly seen Gundy peak. I don't see how that's up for debate. The two key questions are does he continue returning back to near peak and, relatedly, are we satisfied with frequently getting close to, but not surpassing that peak? I'll be honest, I have no idea for number 1, but I am satisfied for the time being with 2. If he can keep getting close to that 2011 peak (i.e., repeatedly get 9 and 10 win seasons and be competitive for the conference championship), let Gundy retire amicably in 5 to 10 and take your time getting the right hire in place. I don't have data on it, but that seems to have a much better outcome long term than firing your program defining head coach.

I'm sure that's not a popular opinion, but the coaching landscape is just littered with too many implosions after firing successful coaches to even think about firing a guy who continues to deliver seasons better than the school has ever had historically. The conversation changes obviously, if Gundy can't pull it back together after this year. My gut says he can't, which is sincerely sad after seeing what he's done for the program, but he deserves the chance to prove us (all?) wrong.

As a side note, Baylor replaced Tech as the non-blue blood serious competitor for most of the time you're referring to. Baylor is doing better this year than their history pre Briles. If Baylor returned to their normal form before the Tech decline, they'd be just as much a cupcake as Kansas. The Texas decline and conference implosion are the differences in conference competitiveness.
Nope, not "all," I would think he will salvage at least a bowl season out of this year...he certainly needs too.
 
Oct 18, 2013
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#10
I'm sure that's not a popular opinion, but the coaching landscape is just littered with too many implosions after firing successful coaches to even think about firing a guy who continues to deliver seasons better than the school has ever had historically.
Agree with this. I am not in any way, shape, or form calling for Gundy's firing. That won't change even if we lose out the rest of the year. I do hope there's a behind the scenes "come to Jesus" meeting that leads to some major shakeups with the coordinators/position coaches (and an OC that will be allowed to do his job his way) - and hopefully that leads to some better recruiting...
 
Jul 25, 2018
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#11
Nope, not "all," I would think he will salvage at least a bowl season out of this year...he certainly needs too.
Salvage a bowl season? With the number of bowl games now, that's like saying "salvage a tournament season" in basketball, IF they expanded the field to 200 teams.

Moving on, though, to the comparisons to the '11 team. Yes, that defense was obviously a better unit, as were the offense & special teams. Make no mistake, the '11 defense benefitted hugely from an offense that's light years better than this year's. The scoreboard pressure that the offense applied to every opponent cannot be overstated. We also actually produced in the return game back then.
 
Nov 8, 2013
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#12
Let's consider 2011 "losing a championship game". If we were almost any other program, we would have been in the BCS Championship game that year. So let's look at all "Championship Game" losing coaches since 2000 and see who else "peaked"... Basically - The only coach in the last 18 years to win a National Championship after reaching the championship and losing has been Dabo. Everyone else either had already won one or hasn't ever won one (Solich, Chip Kelly, Brian Kelly, Malzahn, Helfrich, and Smart). And Helfrich is the only one at a program who hasn't previously won a championship with a different coach. My point is that if 2011 was indeed a "peak" - it was an incredible and rare one.
2000 – Florida St – (Bowden - WON PREVIOUSLY)
2001 – Nebraska (Solich)
2002 – Miami (Coker - WON PREVIOUSLY)
2003 – Oklahoma (Stoops - WON PREVIOUSLY)
2004 – Oklahoma (Stoops - WON PREVIOUSLY)
2005 – USC (Carroll - WON PREVIOUSLY)
2006 – Ohio State (Tressel - WON PREVIOUSLY)
2007 – Ohio State (Tressel - WON PREVIOUSLY)
2008 – Oklahoma (Stoops - WON PREVIOUSLY)
2009 – Texas (Brown - WON PREVIOUSLY)
2010 – Oregon (C Kelly)
2011 – LSU (Miles - WON PREVIOUSLY)
2012 – Notre Dame (B Kelly)
2013 – Auburn (Malzahn)
2014 – Oregon (Helfrich)
2015 – Clemson (Swinney)* WON IN 2016
2016 – Alabama (Saban - WON PREVIOUSLY and again in 2017
2017 – Georgia (Smart)
 
Jul 28, 2006
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#13
From Gundy's second year until 2011 we steadily climbed the ladder of success. Since then, we have steadily declined, overall. What ignited that 2010-2011 surge? Gundy hired Holgy and Monken to run the offense, and they only came with the promise to be left alone. If Gundy messed with them, they would quickly tell him to take a leap. They could go to many schools. Then Gundy hired Yurcich. Only an apologist would argue that Gundy does not completely controls Yurcich.

The very formula that led to peak Gundy, ended up being its demise. Gundy began to believe he could plug and play any assistant or coordinator into his "culture", and the wins would keep coming. The fall would have happened sooner if not for the decline of Tech, Texas, and Baylor. So we are back to Gundy's second year, program wise. But with a big difference. A head coach who stubbornly believes the culture he has built is enough to be successful.

Rudolph and Washington were great enough to overcome the OL woes, defensive failures, and awful game plans. We are now back to the place we need bold, innovative coaches to overcome our talent deficiencies. But 2011 has convinced Gundy we are fine. That is why we may have seen peak Gundy.
This is about as ridiculous a first paragraph as I have read in a while and that's saying something. Peaking in 2011 in what should have been a BCS Championship birth is as good a place to peak as any for starters. Saying the program has been in decline since is ludicrous. Multiple top 10 and 10 win seasons is in the top tier of the game. This looks like a lousy year and I do think we have underachieved in the last few years under Yurcich, but this isn't anything a new OC can't fix. The program is in good standing and good if not great years are to come.
 

pokes16

Territorial Marshal
Oct 16, 2003
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#14
Go back and look at replays of the 2011 season. Weeden rarely got touched, and Randal had holes big enough that "ethics" hatred could run through. The biggest diff is the O-line play. Despite all the issues that we had on Sat. we still scored 42 points even with 6 sacks. So image what we would do offensively if we could keep Corn clean and open a hole for the Justice League.
 

cowboyethics344

Federal Marshal
Apr 2, 2008
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#15
Go back and look at replays of the 2011 season. Weeden rarely got touched, and Randal had holes big enough that "ethics" hatred could run through. The biggest diff is the O-line play. Despite all the issues that we had on Sat. we still scored 42 points even with 6 sacks. So image what we would do offensively if we could keep Corn clean and open a hole for the Justice League.
We can’t speak in hypotheticals because our offensive line is not 2011. The most comparable year is 2014 but it is probably worse. Our personnel cannot run the yurchich offense without having stalled drives and sacks. We need either a new coordinator to mask our deficiencies or Yurcich needs to change his 5 play book to fit his athletes. I think we have enough talent to produce and arguably we have had some success on offense but we have not been efficient enough to beat good or even average teams like Iowa state.

This is not hatred just honesty.
 
Apr 14, 2018
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#16
We can’t speak in hypotheticals because our offensive line is not 2011. The most comparable year is 2014 but it is probably worse. Our personnel cannot run the yurchich offense without having stalled drives and sacks. We need either a new coordinator to mask our deficiencies or Yurcich needs to change his 5 play book to fit his athletes. I think we have enough talent to produce and arguably we have had some success on offense but we have not been efficient enough to beat good or even average teams like Iowa state.

This is not hatred just honesty.
The defense probably isn't going to improve much during this season. And a contributing factor to that is the offense going 3 and out and putting the defense right back on the field. And the offense going backwards via penalties and negative yardage, giving the other teams good field position.

This season the improvement must come from the offense. It may not be fair, but that's how OSU football has worked for the last 12 years. Offense carries most of the load.
 

cowboyethics344

Federal Marshal
Apr 2, 2008
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#17
The defense probably isn't going to improve much during this season. And a contributing factor to that is the offense going 3 and out and putting the defense right back on the field. And the offense going backwards via penalties and negative yardage, giving the other teams good field position.

This season the improvement must come from the offense. It may not be fair, but that's how OSU football has worked for the last 12 years. Offense carries most of the load.
Hitting the nail on head. Absolutely, we can’t replace talent immediately. We have to work with what we have and the offense can develop plays that don’t take as long to develop if yurchich stepped outside of his box. I don’t care if we score 40+ points if we give the other team the ball at the 30 yard line, then we will probably be giving up points. It can’t always be on the defense. If the offense scores on 90% of the drives then ok I get it then it’s on the defense. At this point, the offense needs to be held accountable for putting our defense in bad positions.
 
Jul 9, 2011
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#19
I posted this in the other thread on offense but thought it was relative here too. On offense there has been no steady "demise". In fact, the last two seasons Yurcich has had results almost identical to Holgy and Monken. You can throw a hat over the results of all three.

Here's a comparison of offensive stats for Holgy's one season, Monken's two seasons and Yurcich's last two full seasoms:





Yurcich has the most yards per game, Monken the most points and points/poss, but the margins between all three are small for all four categories. Very comparable results. Lots of other factors, but these three OC's had very close to the same results. It's why SEC teams have interviewed Yurcich the past couple of seasons - he has put up the numbers.

I agree this season YTD results are not as good for a number of reasons. But there has been no steady demise.
 

RxCowboy

Has no Rx for his orange obsession.
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Nov 8, 2004
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#20
Hitting the nail on head. Absolutely, we can’t replace talent immediately. We have to work with what we have and the offense can develop plays that don’t take as long to develop if yurchich stepped outside of his box. I don’t care if we score 40+ points if we give the other team the ball at the 30 yard line, then we will probably be giving up points. It can’t always be on the defense. If the offense scores on 90% of the drives then ok I get it then it’s on the defense. At this point, the offense needs to be held accountable for putting our defense in bad positions.
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