12 story condo in Miami collapses

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Binman4OSU

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#3
it would have to have been a DAMN big one but 100% possible I'm sure. 55 Apartment units collapsed and I don't see the ruble piling up at the bottom after the collapse. It would have had to been a very large and very deep sinkhole to get that much building to just seem to disappear.
 

osupsycho

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#4
it would have to have been a DAMN big one but 100% possible I'm sure. 55 Apartment units collapsed and I don't see the ruble piling up at the bottom after the collapse. It would have had to been a very large and very deep sinkhole to get that much building to just seem to disappear.
Not necessarily, it could have been a sinkhole that was just big enough to take out a major structural support like a footing.
 

oks10

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Damn. I saw it on the news but they were showing the live shot which just looked like the side of the building collapsed. I didn't realize a complete section of the building collapsed! I can't even imagine...
 

osupsycho

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There's no way that much building collapses and leaves a debris pile that small... (without a sink hole I mean)
Looking at this part of the one picture makes me think it is a sinkhole. Look at how these cars are angled (especially the one that looks tilted on its side on the left hand side) and even the ground seems to be lower and at an angle.

1624543664176.png
 

osupsycho

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Here is another shot and you can see even better that the one car has slid down from its parking spot into an area that is now lower. This makes some since if you watch the video as the center section goes down first and that is roughly the area where the hole would have to be for this car to slide this way. Betting they will be closing all surrounding buildings soon.

1624543902182.png
 
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Binman4OSU

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#12
Here is another shot and you can see even better that the one car has slid down from its parking spot into an are that is now lower. This makes some since if you watch the video as the center section goes down first and that is roughly the area where the hole would have to be for this car to slide this way. Betting they will be closing all surrounding buildings soon.

View attachment 90757
Yeah the angle of the cars caught my eye, Those cars aren't going to do that by themselves sitting next to a collapsing building. The ground HAD to move or there had to be a large force that pushed those cars into those positions like an explosion...but there is NO evidence of any explosion so it must have been the ground below IMHO
 

osupsycho

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Yeah comparing these images it is obvious that the ground has sunk right in front of the entrance, between the pool and the parking area.

1624544376277.png
1624544421071.png
 

osupsycho

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Found an even clearer shot that shows what is obviously the edge of the sinkhole. You can even see on the pillars how far it has sunk with the white sections being below the previous grade.
1624544767986.png
 

Birry

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#16
Found an even clearer shot that shows what is obviously the edge of the sinkhole. You can even see on the pillars how far it has sunk with the white sections being below the previous grade. View attachment 90760
The condo also had a parking garage under that end of the building. Not ruling out a sinkhole, but the sub-level garage could have also collapsed causing depressions were it's framing collapsed.

I'm a structural engineer, and our office has been dissecting this collapse all morning. We have a guy in our office that helped assess the Murrah building bombing/collapse, and he has some good insight on failures of this nature. A sinkhole is a definite possibility in that region. Could have also been a failure of a parking garage transfer beam or even a progressive collapse caused by deterioration or maintenance. There is not much to go on yet, but I'm sure more info will come out that detail what happened. 40 year old concrete buildings don't just collapse without some kind of major event causing it.
 

Binman4OSU

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The condo also had a parking garage under that end of the building. Not ruling out a sinkhole, but the sub-level garage could have also collapsed causing depressions were it's framing collapsed.

I'm a structural engineer, and our office has been dissecting this collapse all morning. We have a guy in our office that helped assess the Murrah building bombing/collapse, and he has some good insight on failures of this nature. A sinkhole is a definite possibility in that region. Could have also been a failure of a parking garage transfer beam or even a progressive collapse caused by deterioration or maintenance. There is not much to go on yet, but I'm sure more info will come out that detail what happened. 40 year old concrete buildings don't just collapse without some kind of major event causing it.
A structural failure of this magnitude would have had to have some serious signs of degradation wouldn't it? This kind of failure, if not environmentally caused, would surly had to have shown some major signs of something being not right? Would be very interested to read inspectors/maint reports for this building and especially that underground garage
 

Birry

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#18
A structural failure of this magnitude would have had to have some serious signs of degradation wouldn't it? This kind of failure, if not environmentally caused, would surly had to have shown some major signs of something being not right? Would be very interested to read inspectors/maint reports for this building and especially that underground garage
Yeah, I agree that collapsing that much of the building would have either been a combination of many, many problems over decades, a single large point of failure at a critical load carrying element (like a transfer girder) or a major shift of the foundations (like a sinkhole).

I'm sure they will look at every detail including maintenance, design, inspection reports, etc... But if it's a sinkhole, the evidence would be apparent immediately by anyone with even basic knowledge of the geotechnical conditions in that area.

The guy in my office I mentioned earlier said he designed a 35-story building just across the bay from this one, and said the foundation system likely extended about 15-25 feet down from the surface into rock, and if the rock had a void under it that collapsed, it could easily have pulled everything founded on it to collapse.
 

Binman4OSU

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The guy in my office I mentioned earlier said he designed a 35-story building just across the bay from this one, and said the foundation system likely extended about 15-25 feet down from the surface into rock, and if the rock had a void under it that collapsed, it could easily have pulled everything founded on it to collapse.
assuming this building would have been the same or close to the same distance down to bedrock to anchor the foundation....and then assuming a sink hole opened under that foundation system, and took out that 15-25ft foundation system, + an underground parking structure, + several of the 12 stories that collapsed....that sink hole would have to be 80-100Ft deep at that point I would think. Would have to have been a MASSIVE sink hole to make this happen, Not unheard of but makes the odds of it being 100% to blame on a sink hole statistically have to drop when we look at just how much stuff under the surface we are dealing with here.

I'm betting it has to be a combo of events/failures over years and years for this kinda of collapse, not just a sudden event/failure that caused the extent of that damage