7 Forces Driving America Toward Civil War

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May 22, 2005
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Behind Enemy Lines
#2
The problem is deeper than liberals not believing in the Constitution. They reject the fundamental premise that makes the Constitution necessary. . .that being that it is THE PEOPLE who, having all endowed authority to govern, must give their consent to how their powers are to be organized and distributed. . .which is, essentially, what the Constitution accomplishes.
Progressive since the time of Wilson, have rejected this fundamental notion and have sought to replace it with the idea that elites, our betters, should be the final arbiters of the "social good." They believe government should be unfettered from the constraints placed upon it by the Constitution.
In other words, they are tyrants seeking a reign of tyranny and they are stone-cold evil and anti-Christ. ..which, btw, is why they hate Christianity. Christianity. .or more specifically, Jesus of Nazareth, informs the individual of one's ultimate value. . that "God so loved the WORLD, he gave his only begotten Son." People who accept such a value, can no longer be governed by tyrants. .and that is the essence of this "civil" war. . God or no God. . .America must chose.
 

wrenhal

Territorial Marshal
Aug 11, 2011
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#4
Nope, just look at the way state government in California is ruining their state. Much of it is by shoving through tax raises and job killing regulations without even attempting to allow the people of the state to vote on anything.

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StillwaterTownie

Federal Marshal
Jun 18, 2010
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#5
Nope, just look at the way state government in California is ruining their state. Much of it is by shoving through tax raises and job killing regulations without even attempting to allow the people of the state to vote on anything.

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Most of the most polluted cities in America are in California. As a far right conservative, do you expect the people of California to do nothing as far as coming up with regulations to attack pollution? Also California shouldn't want off shore drilling any more than Florida does, in order to protect its beaches from oil spill pollution and to protect tourism. California is very beautiful. I don't blame the people there for wanting to protect the environment.

By the way, Californians did vote 55% to 45% in 2012 to raise income taxes on rich people and raise sales tax in order to better fund education. Oklahoma should try the same thing, but without the sales tax hike.
 

StillwaterTownie

Federal Marshal
Jun 18, 2010
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#6
The problem is deeper than liberals not believing in the Constitution. They reject the fundamental premise that makes the Constitution necessary. . .that being that it is THE PEOPLE who, having all endowed authority to govern, must give their consent to how their powers are to be organized and distributed. . .which is, essentially, what the Constitution accomplishes.
Progressive since the time of Wilson, have rejected this fundamental notion and have sought to replace it with the idea that elites, our betters, should be the final arbiters of the "social good." They believe government should be unfettered from the constraints placed upon it by the Constitution.
In other words, they are tyrants seeking a reign of tyranny and they are stone-cold evil and anti-Christ. ..which, btw, is why they hate Christianity. Christianity. .or more specifically, Jesus of Nazareth, informs the individual of one's ultimate value. . that "God so loved the WORLD, he gave his only begotten Son." People who accept such a value, can no longer be governed by tyrants. .and that is the essence of this "civil" war. . God or no God. . .America must chose.
So, Oklahoma conservatives don't like the Constitution, either. In 2017, they ran a legislator out of office for trying to force drastic reform of civil forfeiture laws. (If he didn't have this crusade of his, nobody would have cared he misspent his campaign funds in an ethics violation.) Now, no Oklahoma legislator dares try to advance civil forfeiture law reform. Cops don't want reform, either. The "social good" shouldn't be about cops acting as tyrants grabbing thousands of cash from you without first having your day in court.
 
Feb 6, 2007
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Ardmore, Ok.
#7
Most of the most polluted cities in America are in California. As a far right conservative, do you expect the people of California to do nothing as far as coming up with regulations to attack pollution? Also California shouldn't want off shore drilling any more than Florida does, in order to protect its beaches from oil spill pollution and to protect tourism. California is very beautiful. I don't blame the people there for wanting to protect the environment.

By the way, Californians did vote 55% to 45% in 2012 to raise income taxes on rich people and raise sales tax in order to better fund education. Oklahoma should try the same thing, but without the sales tax hike.
It is easy to make demands on other people's money when you want others to pay for everything you want.
 

steross

Bookface/Instagran legend
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Mar 31, 2004
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#8
The original poster must have skipped #2 of the 7 forces driving to civil war as he is one of the most politically tribal people around this board of heavy political tribesmen. No surprise that finger is pointing right at him yet he posts only about "liberals."

2) Tribalism: The “you only have to listen to people you already agree with” nature of social media has dramatically ramped up the level of tribalism in the United States. The Right has gotten much more tribal since Donald Trump rose to prominence and the Left has taken tribalism into hyper-drive. Increasingly, liberals treat a range of opinion between Elizabeth Warren and Hillary Clinton as legitimate while everyone else is viewed as a white supremacist Nazi primitive that must be driven down into the gutter for society to move forward. This makes any sort of dialogue or cooperation nearly impossible. When every issue is a zero sum war where one tribe must win or lose, a lot of people quite understandably ask, “What do we gain by staying allied to this other tribe?”
 
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StillwaterTownie

Federal Marshal
Jun 18, 2010
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#9
It is easy to make demands on other people's money when you want others to pay for everything you want.
In other words, it's wrong and immoral to protect the environment from pollution or otherwise advance for the common good when other people's money is used to do it. Of course, I would imagine that many conservatives pretty strongly feel they have no use or need for whatever is labeled as being for the common good. That includes education in Oklahoma.
 
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Oct 7, 2008
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#10
The original poster must have skipped #2 of the 7 forces driving to civil war as he is one of the most politically tribal people around this board of heavy political tribesmen. No surprise that finger is pointing right at him yet he posts only about "liberals."

2) Tribalism: The “you only have to listen to people you already agree with” nature of social media has dramatically ramped up the level of tribalism in the United States. The Right has gotten much more tribal since Donald Trump rose to prominence and the Left has taken tribalism into hyper-drive. Increasingly, liberals treat a range of opinion between Elizabeth Warren and Hillary Clinton as legitimate while everyone else is viewed as a white supremacist Nazi primitive that must be driven down into the gutter for society to move forward. This makes any sort of dialogue or cooperation nearly impossible. When every issue is a zero sum war where one tribe must win or lose, a lot of people quite understandably ask, “What do we gain by staying allied to this other tribe?”
If he was a liberal this board would absolutely hate him, but since his brand of crazy comes from the far right they stick up for him. The definition of tribalism.
 
Feb 6, 2007
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Ardmore, Ok.
#11
In other words, it's wrong and immoral to protect the environment from pollution or otherwise advance for the common good when other people's money is used to do it. Of course, I would imagine that many conservatives pretty strongly feel they have no use or need for whatever is labeled as being for the common good. That includes education in Oklahoma.
You completely missed the point, as usual. Sure, we care about the environment, only a moron would not. The point is that you believe only certain ("wealthy") people have responsibility for the price tag. Anybody's money but yours. Here's a novel idea, if you are so jealous and envious of other people's money, go make a million for yourself. I suspect your point of view would change if someone else were making demands on your money.
 

Cimarron

It's not dying I'm talking about, it's living.
Jun 28, 2007
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#12
If he was a liberal this board would absolutely hate him, but since his brand of crazy comes from the far right they stick up for him. The definition of tribalism.
Since he leans to the right though, it’s the left that absolutely hates him.
 

oks10

Territorial Marshal
Sep 9, 2007
7,473
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Yukon, OK
#13
The original poster must have skipped #2 of the 7 forces driving to civil war as he is one of the most politically tribal people around this board of heavy political tribesmen. No surprise that finger is pointing right at him yet he posts only about "liberals."

2) Tribalism: The “you only have to listen to people you already agree with” nature of social media has dramatically ramped up the level of tribalism in the United States. The Right has gotten much more tribal since Donald Trump rose to prominence and the Left has taken tribalism into hyper-drive. Increasingly, liberals treat a range of opinion between Elizabeth Warren and Hillary Clinton as legitimate while everyone else is viewed as a white supremacist Nazi primitive that must be driven down into the gutter for society to move forward. This makes any sort of dialogue or cooperation nearly impossible. When every issue is a zero sum war where one tribe must win or lose, a lot of people quite understandably ask, “What do we gain by staying allied to this other tribe?”
If he was a liberal this board would absolutely hate him, but since his brand of crazy comes from the far right they stick up for him. The definition of tribalism.
I'm sorry, who sticks up for Cobra?? It looks to me that there's a couple people that comment on his threads and the rest of us just ignore him since he rarely provides any type of content other than a link to some right wing nut site. I think I have more poop rankings than he has posts where he actually gives his own opinion...

And damn you for making me post on a Cobra thread...

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StillwaterTownie

Federal Marshal
Jun 18, 2010
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#14
You completely missed the point, as usual. Sure, we care about the environment, only a moron would not. The point is that you believe only certain ("wealthy") people have responsibility for the price tag. Anybody's money but yours. Here's a novel idea, if you are so jealous and envious of other people's money, go make a million for yourself. I suspect your point of view would change if someone else were making demands on your money.
Everybody should contribute to the common good. But wealthy people can afford to contribute a little more. If a millionaire's income tax went up from 5 to 6%, he or she would still be well off. So I wouldn't mind paying a little more income tax for being wealthy. There are also other ways to contribute to the common good that don't involve paying taxes.
 
Oct 7, 2008
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#15
Since he leans to the right though, it’s the left that absolutely hates him.
Haha, yes the guy who almost exclusively shares articles from far right nuts-o sites only "leans" that way. And my dislike of him has nothing to do with his conservative nature, I love me a good conservative. I'm not a fan because he represents exactly what's wrong with this country- someone who believes that anyone who thinks differently than him (liberals) are either idiots or enemies. It's just like some of the dumbasses I see out here in California who say they don't want to be associated with a person just because they're a Republican/conservative.
 
Oct 7, 2008
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#16
I'm sorry, who sticks up for Cobra?? It looks to me that there's a couple people that comment on his threads and the rest of us just ignore him since he rarely provides any type of content other than a link to some right wing nut site. I think I have more poop rankings than he has posts where he actually gives his own opinion...

And damn you for making me post on a Cobra thread...


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I've called him out a few times for what to me seems like a general itch to get a chance to kill some of his fellow Americans and been assured it's me who is the crazy one. And yet, here we are once again in a Cobra thread about the next Civil War. Oh, and Cim (bless his heart) just tried to say the craziest person on this board only "leans right".

Side note: yes, I'm aware I could be reading more into the situation but I've seen Oklahoma friends on Facebook say they were going to "pray to God, grab their guns, and go to the streets" if Trump didn't win the election. And I've seen them post the memes about who would win, gun-toting Republicans or dildo-toting liberals (yes, I'm aware they're jokes but jokes from Oklahoma friends about killing people like me- a proud, dildo-carrying Democrat- seem a bit weird) so my spidey senses are pretty dialed up right now.
 

CaliforniaCowboy

Federal Marshal
Oct 15, 2003
14,437
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So Cal
#18
Nope, just look at the way state government in California is ruining their state. Much of it is by shoving through tax raises and job killing regulations without even attempting to allow the people of the state to vote on anything.

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now, now.... let's not confuse voting with governing.

The "people" should NOT get to "vote for taxes" (and we have in the past, and those taxes passed).

Voter referendum should not be allowed. The States that allow direct voting on issues (i.e., chaos) are clearly worse off, and have far more problems than the States that do not allow voter referendum.

The problems facing California are age-old, and involve district gerry-mandering and idiotic rules that prevent other Party's candidates from getting onto the final ballot (among other things).

The problem, like most governing problems, is MONEY. The Unions (public unions) drive the politics in CA.