Active shooter at Texas elementary school

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LS1 Z28

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Definitely the noteriety issue has always been present but is definitely worse now with social media and not just regular media. I am a big advocate of No Noteriety and have donated to them in the past. Copycating probably plays a huge part. That is why you no longer see teen suicide reported in the local paper. We have known about this effect for centuries.

An excerpt from one of my favorite books, Influence by Cialdini:

The story of the Werther effect is both chilling and intriguing. More than two centuries ago, the great man of German literature, Johann von Goethe, published a novel entitled Die Leiden des jungen Werthers (The Sorrows of Young Werther). The book, in which the hero, named Werther, commits suicide, had a remarkable impact. Not only did it provide Goethe with immediate fame, but it also sparked a wave of emulative suicides across Europe. So powerful was this effect that authorities in several countries banned the novel. Professor Phillips’s own work has traced the Werther effect to modern times. His research has demonstrated that immediately following a front-page suicide story the suicide rate increases dramatically in those geographical areas where the story has been highly publicized. It is Phillips’s argument that certain troubled people who read of another’s self-inflicted death kill themselves in imitation. In a morbid illustration of the principle of social proof, these people decide how they should act on the basis of how some other troubled person has acted. Phillips got his evidence for the modern-day Werther effect by examining the suicide statistics in the United States between 1947 and 1968. He found that within two months after every front-page suicide story, an average of fifty-eight more people than usual killed themselves. In a sense, each suicide story killed fifty-eight people who otherwise would have gone on living. Phillips also found that this tendency for suicides to beget suicides occurred principally in those parts of the country where the first suicide was highly publicized and that the wider the publicity given the first suicide, the greater the number of later suicides. If the facts surrounding the Werther effect seem to you suspiciously like those surrounding the influence of suicide stories on air and traffic fatalities, the similarities have not been lost on Professor Phillips either. In fact, he contends that all the excess deaths following a front-page suicide incident can be explained as the same thing: copycat suicides. Upon learning of another’s suicide, an uncomfortably large number of people decide that suicide is an appropriate action for themselves as well. Some of these individuals then proceed to commit the act in a straightforward, no-bones-about-it fashion, causing the suicide rate to jump. Others, however, are less direct. For any of several reasons—to protect their reputations, to spare their families the shame and hurt, to allow their dependents to collect on insurance policies—they do not want to appear to have killed themselves. They would rather seem to have died accidentally. So, purposively but furtively, they cause the wreck of a car or a plane they are operating or are simply riding in. This could be accomplished in a variety of all-too-familiar-sounding ways. A commercial-airline pilot could dip the nose of the aircraft at a crucial point of
takeoff or could inexplicably land on an already occupied runway against instructions from the control tower; the driver of a car could suddenly swerve into a tree or into oncoming traffic; a passenger in an automobile or corporate jet could incapacitate the operator, causing a deadly crash; the pilot of a private plane could, despite all radio warnings, plow into another aircraft. Thus the alarming climb in crash fatalities we find following front-page suicides is, according to Dr. Phillips, most likely due to the Werther effect secretly applied.


Cialdini PhD, Robert B.. Influence (Collins Business Essentials) . HarperCollins. Kindle Edition.
The information from the Buffalo shooter's manifesto was interesting. I haven't read it, but it's my understanding that he referenced other mass shooters and even copied a portion of their manifestos. It's clear that the notoriety that we've given them played a part in inspiring his actions. I wish there was a way to suppress this information, because it's clear that it contributes to the problem.
 
May 4, 2011
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The information from the Buffalo shooter's manifesto was interesting. I haven't read it, but it's my understanding that he referenced other mass shooters and even copied a portion of their manifestos. It's clear that the notoriety that we've given them played a part in inspiring his actions. I wish there was a way to suppress this information, because it's clear that it contributes to the problem.
Copied El Paso's methods and copied and pasted the Christchurch shooter's words (literally was copy and paste).

I don't know how we stop coverage of the shootings, but those manifestos need to be harder to access, though I know it would require legal changes to internet laws.
 

Pokit N

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I honestly think very few want to completely take your rights to a gun away. Nowhere near enough to make it happen. But, if it could stop at least some of these horrific acts, you still wouldn't be willing to give up "any" gun rights? Seems as long as there is no compromise, we are going to cause these tragedies to happen. And, while I fear the small possiblity of severe civil strife occurring, having completely unfettered access to firearms isn't worth the cries of those parents in my opinion. Did you watch that video posted earlier?
It's gut wrenching, but I wake up and watch the news every morning outside of Chicago where the equivalent of Uvalde has happened every two weeks this year...and all or most of the laws you are talking about are already in place.

Look Democrats can pass whatever gun laws they want right now w/ out a single vote from a republican. I'll bet you a weeks salary they do nothing.
 

LS1 Z28

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Copied El Paso's methods and copied and pasted the Christchurch shooter's words (literally was copy and paste).

I don't know how we stop coverage of the shootings, but those manifestos need to be harder to access, though I know it would require legal changes to internet laws.
The first and second amendments provide us with a lot of freedom, but they also produce some unsavory results. Figuring out the right place to draw the line between freedom and safety can be difficult at times.
 
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It's gut wrenching, but I wake up and watch the news every morning outside of Chicago where the equivalent of Uvalde has happened every two weeks this year...and all or most of the laws you are talking about are already in place.

Look Democrats can pass whatever gun laws they want right now w/ out a single vote from a republican. I'll bet you a weeks salary they do nothing.
Las Vegas and Kansas City both have higher per capita murder rates than Chicago. Tulsa is 14th in the US. Why all the focus on Chicago?

Also on a federal level, how will gun legislation pass in the Senate?
 
Sep 22, 2011
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As with many of the issues in todays society, a huge factor here is fatherlessness. A very large percentage of mass shooters come from broken homes, which is the starting point of the bullying and the antisocial behavior.
Another issue is school policies, my wife experienced this and it is one of the reasons she is leaving teaching. A student was found with a knife at school, with his stated intention being to stab a kid who was bullying him after school. The child was suspended for 3 days, when the child came back they had a bigger knife and was forthcoming with that they were bringing it to stop a kid from saying mean things to him, the child was suspended for 10 days, because the school "cant expel kids because they will lose funding" the child was sent to summer school and will continue on to the next grade, no requirement for therapy or assessment to return, and when the question was asked of the guardian grandmother if he has access to guns, she stated that he spends time with his uncle who has guns. This happens every year at every school, it is really just rolling the dice everyday that a child will snap and have access to the weapons required to pull off the attack.
To me it looks like people are just OK with the spiral that we have found ourselves in as long as it doesn't personally affect them. it is a hard hurdle to overcome especially when you have well funded entrenched interests that prevent anything from being done.
 

Pokit N

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Las Vegas and Kansas City both have higher per capita murder rates than Chicago. Tulsa is 14th in the US. Why all the focus on Chicago?

Also on a federal level, how will gun legislation pass in the Senate?
I live near it, it has strict laws, and many gun deaths happen there. So if gun laws work...why don't they work?

Gun Legislation won't pass the Senate that's my point.
 

steross

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It's gut wrenching, but I wake up and watch the news every morning outside of Chicago where the equivalent of Uvalde has happened every two weeks this year...and all or most of the laws you are talking about are already in place.

Look Democrats can pass whatever gun laws they want right now w/ out a single vote from a republican. I'll bet you a weeks salary they do nothing.
Yea, but local laws are obviously pointless for widespread issues. Edmond, Oklahoma could pass strict air pollution laws but with OKC next door and a prevailing south wind, it wouldn't do much unless OKC did the same. Nationwide gun laws have worked elsewhere. Local isn't gonna do it.

Also, republicans can stop the democrats with a 50-50 Senate:
“What would need to happen is real compromise from both Democrats and Republicans. It would require leadership on both sides to empower bipartisan efforts. But Schumer is teeing up House-passed legislation that has no chance of getting 60 votes,” Koltun added, referring to Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, the New York Democrat.

“Republicans aren’t posturing towards any sort of compromise. I don’t see anything happening.”

A big hurdle in the 50-50 Senate is its filibuster rule, in which 60 votes are required to end debate on most items, so the minority party is able to stymie the majority’s efforts.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/b...m7jLpqvKYkR3QZ2WySAfj0M2INWDB6_X08RvBB0ivr9dM
 

Pokit N

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Yea, but local laws are obviously pointless for widespread issues. Edmond, Oklahoma could pass strict air pollution laws but with OKC next door and a prevailing south wind, it wouldn't do much unless OKC did the same. Nationwide gun laws have worked elsewhere. Local isn't gonna do it.

Also, republicans can stop the democrats with a 50-50 Senate:
“What would need to happen is real compromise from both Democrats and Republicans. It would require leadership on both sides to empower bipartisan efforts. But Schumer is teeing up House-passed legislation that has no chance of getting 60 votes,” Koltun added, referring to Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, the New York Democrat.

“Republicans aren’t posturing towards any sort of compromise. I don’t see anything happening.”

A big hurdle in the 50-50 Senate is its filibuster rule, in which 60 votes are required to end debate on most items, so the minority party is able to stymie the majority’s efforts.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/b...m7jLpqvKYkR3QZ2WySAfj0M2INWDB6_X08RvBB0ivr9dM
I forgot about the filibuster.
 
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Copied El Paso's methods and copied and pasted the Christchurch shooter's words (literally was copy and paste).

I don't know how we stop coverage of the shootings, but those manifestos need to be harder to access, though I know it would require legal changes to internet laws.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XD39MICKn6Q
 

CowboyJD

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Look Democrats can pass whatever gun laws they want right now w/ out a single vote from a republican. I'll bet you a weeks salary they do nothing.
Largely inaccurate statement given cloture and filibuster rules of the Senate.
 
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XD39MICKn6Q
That guy shouldn't have it either. I'm not sure what you're larger point is, though. Should we avert our attention from Dylann Roof, Patrick Crusius, or Payton Gendron? Pretend as though they didn't have explicitly racist motives? I sincerely don't understand the solution here.

I do think stories like this should be told more, not because it should become the expected standard but because it is so extraordinary.

https://www.npr.org/2022/05/22/1100...-attack-in-charleston-now-hes-helping-buffalo
 

PF5

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Don McLean pulls out of Texas gun convention bbc

American Pie singer Don McLean has pulled out of this weekend's National Rifle Association annual meeting in Texas, following Tuesday's tragic shooting at a school in the state.
"I have decided it would be disrespectful and hurtful for me to perform," McLean said in a statement.
"I'm sure all the folks planning to attend this event are shocked and sickened by these events as well."

There have been calls for the NRA to cancel its event, which is being headlined by former president Donald Trump in Houston - about a four-hour drive from Ulvade.
The three-day rally is set to "showcase over 14 acres of the latest guns and gear," according to its official website.


Trump confirmed he would still appear at the conference, in a post on his Truth Social platform. Other high-profile Republicans, including Texas senator Ted Cruz and the state's governor, Greg Abbott, are also due to speak.

Tuesday's incident was the America's deadliest mass shooting so far this year, but it was far from being the first. According to the Gun Violence Archive, the US has seen 212 mass shootings in the last 145 days.

Singer Olivia Rodrigo called for "stricter gun control laws" during a concert at the Greek Theater in Los Angeles.
"I wish we would never have to worry about our safety or our lives at places that are dedicated to our learning and growing," she said. "I'm so heartbroken that this is the reality that we're living in - and we need stricter gun control laws in America."
Taylor Swift said she was "filled with rage and grief" by the "ways in which we, as a nation, have become conditioned to unfathomable and unbearable heartbreak."
Actor and Ulvade native Matthew McConaughey urged Americans to reassess their values in a lengthy statement.
"We have tragically proven that we are failing to be responsible for the rights our freedoms grant us," he said, without specifically mentioning guns.
"This is an epidemic we can control, and whichever side of the aisle we may stand on, we all know we can do better. Action must be taken so that no parent has to experience what the parents in Uvalde and the others before have endured."
 

LS1 Z28

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Apparently Schumer blocked a school safety bill from being voted on yesterday, because he doesn't want more armed security in schools. That seems like an odd move, but I guess it doesn't fit their agenda.

 
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That guy shouldn't have it either. I'm not sure what you're larger point is, though. Should we avert our attention from Dylann Roof, Patrick Crusius, or Payton Gendron? Pretend as though they didn't have explicitly racist motives? I sincerely don't understand the solution here.

I do think stories like this should be told more, not because it should become the expected standard but because it is so extraordinary.

https://www.npr.org/2022/05/22/1100...-attack-in-charleston-now-hes-helping-buffalo
Are you saying the buffalo shooter shouldn't have had access to a gun, or the YouTuber? I wasn't trying to point that out. I was responding to the fact that the media publicizes these shooters and provides them notoriety. That is what the video is about. Did you watch it?
 
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Are you saying the buffalo shooter shouldn't have had access to a gun, or the YouTuber? I wasn't trying to point that out. I was responding to the fact that the media publicizes these shooters and provides them notoriety. That is what the video is about. Did you watch it?
Yeah, I did. That's what my whole point was. Would you rather ignore it? Would you rather them not cover that it was racially motivated for all three shooters I listed? Again, I don't understand what your solution is besides ignoring these facts.

Edit: by access to "it", I mean the manifesto. The youtuber shouldn't be able to get it so easily either.
 

steross

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Yeah, I did. That's what my whole point was. Would you rather ignore it? Would you rather them not cover that it was racially motivated for all three shooters I listed? Again, I don't understand what your solution is besides ignoring these facts.

Edit: by access to "it", I mean the manifesto. The youtuber shouldn't be able to get it so easily either.
Yes, I don't want that "covered."

List the act as racially motivated.

Give us a ton of coverage about the victims and/or any responding officers/good samaritans etc. No further in depth coverage of the perpetrator.
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