Active shooter at Texas elementary school

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TheMonkey

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The deadliest school shooting in the history of our country occurred at Virginia Tech. The shooter used two common handguns. Both were purchased legally with a background check.
In order to do that, he first went around and chained all of the exits so people couldn't escape. Also, measures have been put in place in most schools to avoid this (e.g. classroom doors that lock from the inside). His ability to do that with handguns doesn't negate that large capacity magazines (LGMs) and semi-automatic assault rifles increase the number of people potentially killed in these situations.

They found 7 LGMs in the school. Common sense tells us that likely increased his opportunity to kill more kids before the border patrol intervened. To be fair, I can't find information on how many in that class (if any) may have survived yesterday, but here's what was relayed to reporters:

“The shooter was able to make entry into a classroom, barricaded himself inside that classroom, and again just began shooting numerous children and teachers that were in that classroom, having no regard for human life. Just a complete evil person," Olivarez said. "Just began shooting anyone that was in his way. At that point we had a tactical law enforcement team arrive — made up of multiple federal officers, local officers, as well as state troopers — that were able to able to make forcible entry into that classroom. They were met with gunfire as well but they were able to shoot and kill that suspect.”

Olivarez told CNN that multiple children were wounded inside the classroom, but the exact number is not yet clear. The victims have been identified and their families notified, he added.
 

Binman4OSU

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Aug 31, 2007
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Stupid about AGW!!
Gun owner here who would like to see the following: increased age limits, waiting periods, background checks and potentially training requirements for anything more dangerous than a .22.

I'd also like improved bullying response protocols for schools and potentially for parents to be held accountable for violent crimes committee by their children when they had reasonable steps available to them that would have directly prevented it, which could include failing to seek services, report risk, and giving them firearms. The standards for the latter would need compassionate and supportive application, but are absolutely geared toward situations where parents blow off risks identified by the school, like the Michigan shooting where the parents bought him the gun and didn't seem to take school concerns seriously. Schools already have to have safety plans and it's such a common thing now, that it seems superfluous, but if there's room on that front, I'm game. I'm also flexible and open to other ideas, even if I think the whole thing is hopeless. I would be very happy to be proven wrong.
I would gladly support all you just said ...these are the VICTIMS we seem unable to agree on what action needs to be taken to protect them

Look at them !! We've got to do better as humans! Screw politics, we need to do the right thing and we need to do it now

FB_IMG_1653515235877.jpg
 

TheMonkey

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By the way, I won't be replying or participating in this thread for a while, if ever. It's just too disheartening to see so many people dig in their heels and refuse to change anything to make a significant difference. I saw the pictures of those kids this morning and I felt so helpless and hopeless. This thread hasn't helped that one bit.

Bye.
 

PF5

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I love (not really) the response using Chicago and killings or saying a particular mass shooting was done by 'regular' guns...it's like saying there are more vehicle deaths by sober people than 'under the influence' people, so therefor, we really don't have a problem...YES WE DO!!! but keep burying your heads in the sand...we need change!!!
 
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Interesting read.

https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-justice/commentary/here-are-8-stubborn-facts-gun-violence-america

Here are eight stubborn facts to keep in mind about gun violence in America:

Violent crime is down and has been on the decline for decades.
The principal public safety concerns with respect to guns are suicides and illegally owned handguns, not mass shootings.
A small number of factors significantly increase the likelihood that a person will be a victim of a gun-related homicide.
Gun-related murders are carried out by a predictable pool of people.
Higher rates of gun ownership are not associated with higher rates of violent crime.
There is no clear relationship between strict gun control legislation and homicide or violent crime rates.
Legally owned firearms are used for lawful purposes much more often than they are used to commit crimes or suicide.
Concealed carry permit holders are not the problem, but they may be part of the solution.
Each of these facts is firmly based on empirical data. Here’s a deeper look.
 

gundysburner

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I love (not really) the response using Chicago and killings or saying a particular mass shooting was done by 'regular' guns...it's like saying there are more vehicle deaths by sober people than 'under the influence' people, so therefor, we really don't have a problem...YES WE DO!!! but keep burying your heads in the sand...we need change!!!
Or perhaps it's more nuanced than that?
 

Birry

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The exploiting of this tragedy for political purposes is sickening. Guns did not kill any kids, a sick mentally deranged individual did. You can't tell me nobody knew that this kid was a ticking time bomb waiting to go off. It's all over his social media feeds. Whoever he interacted with on a daily basis had to know he was not right. So why do we continue to ignore mental illness and blame it on guns?

There are more guns in the US than there are people. The vast majority of which are owned by law abiding citizens for protection, hunting, etc. These incidents are abhorrent, tragic and shocking. If there were no guns in the world, the sick in the head individuals would just make a bomb, light the school on fire, drive through the playground mowing kids down with his car, poison the cafeteria food or any number of ways to commit atrocities. Why do we keep blaming the tool of choice instead of addressing the reasons sick individuals get this way like absence of parenting, violence in movies and video games and disturbing online sites that are allowed to exist?

Then there's the elephant in the room that is continually ignored in that cities like Chicago, which has the strictest gun laws anywhere in the country where 19 kids killed is just a couple of weekends tally in that city. Nobody says or does a thing. What about those lives. Do they not matter because most are black? Where is BLM? These kids live in fear every day of their existence but nobody talks about helping them.

My granddaughter's middle school had only one accessible entrance from the outside. It has a secure vestibule where you come in the first set of doors and you are basically trapped in that vestibule between two sets of doors until you are properly vetted. You do not enter the second set of locked doors until you are buzzed in by staff. No other entrances are accessible from outside. This incident could not have happened in the same way with that kind of security. They also have an armed security guard on duty. Why are these measures not an absolute minimum requirement at every US school? If you care about kid's lives why are you not all over this minimum standard instead of taking away guns from law abiding citizens?

The very first thing Kamala and Joe do is say a couple of platitudes about the shooting and then launch into their gun control narrative. It's sickening to me. How is taking my firearms away from me going to make schools safer? It won't, all it does is make my home less safe.

We'd better start instituting these basic minimum standards of protection for our school kids and we'd better start talking about and finding ways to address how an 18 year old gets to the point mentally that he would want to slaughter a bunch of 7, 8 and 9 year old children. Until we stop making this about gun control and start identifying and addressing the reasons and how to stop them, these devastating incidents are going to continue to happen.
I have a close relative that suffers from pretty severe and erratic mental illness. They are sometimes dangerous to be around, and we all desperately want them to get help. However.....we can't do much, no matter how scary they get. The police have been involved countless times, but they can't do anything unless the individual breaks a law. On the mental health side, we can't force the individual to get help, because they are over 18 years old. That means the only avenue to get mental health treatment is if the individual recognizes their illness and is willing to seek treatment on their own. In our case, the individual knows they are ill, but has so far been unwilling to seek help, because they are obsessively paranoid and don't trust the government, medical doctors, or anyone.

I agree with the premise that families and friends should be involved in mental illness cases, but I'm also actively involved in a similar situation, and there is LITERALLY nothing we can do. There are times we wish that the individual could do something bad enough to be taken away, but not bad enough to kill someone so that treatment might be forced, but so far that hasn't happened. It's a very challenging situation, and so far we've found no solutions except to actively love the person, know the person, and just hope for the best.

Basically the system only intervenes if someone gets hurt or the mentally ill person somehow seeks help on their own. There are no other options. You could try stealing their guns, but what do you think that would do to an already unstable person???
 

jobob85

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I have a close relative that suffers from pretty severe and erratic mental illness. They are sometimes dangerous to be around, and we all desperately want them to get help. However.....we can't do much, no matter how scary they get. The police have been involved countless times, but they can't do anything unless the individual breaks a law. On the mental health side, we can't force the individual to get help, because they are over 18 years old. That means the only avenue to get mental health treatment is if the individual recognizes their illness and is willing to seek treatment on their own. In our case, the individual knows they are ill, but has so far been unwilling to seek help, because they are obsessively paranoid and don't trust the government, medical doctors, or anyone.

I agree with the premise that families and friends should be involved in mental illness cases, but I'm also actively involved in a similar situation, and there is LITERALLY nothing we can do. There are times we wish that the individual could do something bad enough to be taken away, but not bad enough to kill someone so that treatment might be forced, but so far that hasn't happened. It's a very challenging situation, and so far we've found no solutions except to actively love the person, know the person, and just hope for the best.

Basically the system only intervenes if someone gets hurt or the mentally ill person somehow seeks help on their own. There are no other options. You could try stealing their guns, but what do you think that would do to an already unstable person???
You can start the process of having them declared incompetent
 

Pokit N

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I love (not really) the response using Chicago and killings or saying a particular mass shooting was done by 'regular' guns...it's like saying there are more vehicle deaths by sober people than 'under the influence' people, so therefor, we really don't have a problem...YES WE DO!!! but keep burying your heads in the sand...we need change!!!
It's illegal to own an AR15 in Cook County. Yet so far223 People have been murdered this year in Chicago. That's about 11 people per week so far through May. You have to get a FOID CARD from the state (takes 4 months to get) just to legally own a gun, and you have to do a background check every time you buy a gun. A CC License is a 16 hour class and hundreds of dollars and another 3 months on top of getting your FOID. You are right everyone buries their heads in the sand about it because it's proof most of the legislation that anyone wants to propose doesn't work.
 

LS1 Z28

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I love (not really) the response using Chicago and killings or saying a particular mass shooting was done by 'regular' guns...it's like saying there are more vehicle deaths by sober people than 'under the influence' people, so therefor, we really don't have a problem...YES WE DO!!! but keep burying your heads in the sand...we need change!!!
I agree that we have a problem and we need change. That being said, it's important to understand that 77% of mass shootings are done with common handguns. Banning rifles like the AR-15 won't stop them.
 
Sep 3, 2010
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Maybe it’s just me being simplistic but it seems to me that this issue, like most, at it’s core boils down to the homes that these young men are being raised in. What this country needs now more than anything else is strong fathers who commit to the family. If we could just simply unify and focus and somehow fix how we father our kids think of all of the problems that we could fix or eliminate. I’m all about the 2nd amendment and I’m not really convinced that guns are the problem buuut…you can put me firmly in the camp that is against crazy unhinged people having easy access to guns. There simply has to be some compromise on this issue.