Advice on a handgun...

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Erick

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Jun 11, 2006
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#41
Thank you sir!
I have a .380, I was hoping the ppk was as well. I will let my wife carry the 380 now. My brother has a walther p22 and I love that gun. I was hoping the ppk was just as awesome.

Thanks for the help Sig.
If you are set on the .380. I would also recommend the Walther P380. It is nearly identical to the P22 including size.. I enjoyed my PPK back in the day but this wold be a nice alternative and allows you to mount a light/laser. It also has a higher capacity with an 8 rd mag. They are cheaper than the PPK too.

What makes the PPK nice is the hammer, decock and manual safety. The PK390 has the same features but lighter. The ergo goes to the newer PK380 as well. (in my opinion.)

 

Duke Silver

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#42
If you are set on the .380. I would also recommend the Walther P380. It is nearly identical to the P22 including size.. I enjoyed my PPK back in the day but this wold be a nice alternative and allows you to mount a light/laser. It also has a higher capacity with an 8 rd mag. They are cheaper than the PPK too.

What makes the PPK nice is the hammer, decock and manual safety. The PK390 has the same features but lighter. The ergo goes to the newer PK380 as well. (in my opinion.)

thanks
 

Erick

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#43
... I am looking for advice on what handgun to purchase for my wife. This would be purely for home-protection as I am gone alot. I have a .357 and plenty of rifles but I am looking for something light weight and easy for her to control. Any suggestions are welcome, Thanks.
If it is purely for home protection, I would look at something other than a handgun, especially a low capacity one. I think it is important to not handicap yourself when you are in your own home and you control the setting. When concealing isn't an issue, go big. My personal pick would be an AR with a light/laser. With a 30rd mag, I think it is going to be much more effective than a shotgun. Usually a shotgun's pattern wont open up more than a few inches at ranges inside a house. On top of that they are low capacity and slow to reload. With an AR, anyone can pretty much hold off any threat in their house regardless of who and how many. The .223 ballistics are actually better for home defense than a 9mms. They seem to frag or tumble after first contact so it lessens the chance of it going through multiple walls (like a second bedroom)
 

CPTNQUIRK

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#44
Erick and OSU Sig, I am looking to buy a pistol for concealed carry(mostly for a loaded gun in a vehicle) and a rifle for varmints on the ranch (Coyotes, stray dogs, etc.). I think that I have decided on a Browning X-bolt Stainless Stalker .22-250 for the rifle. I can't seem to make up my mind on the pistol, however. I don't think that I want a .45 so I am leaning toward a Beretta 9mm 92FS INOX or a 92A1. Which on of these pistols, or any other suggestions, would you choose?Where would be the best place to get these guns?
 

PokealypseNow

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#45
Erick and OSU Sig, I am looking to buy a pistol for concealed carry(mostly for a loaded gun in a vehicle) and a rifle for varmints on the ranch (Coyotes, stray dogs, etc.). I think that I have decided on a Browning X-bolt Stainless Stalker .22-250 for the rifle. I can't seem to make up my mind on the pistol, however. I don't think that I want a .45 so I am leaning toward a Beretta 9mm 92FS INOX or a 92A1. Which on of these pistols, or any other suggestions, would you choose?Where would be the best place to get these guns?
While not in the list, I hope you don't mind me throwing a few ideas your way.

If you're looking at the Berettas as a full-size, all metal, durable pistol, I'd also suggest the CZ 75 (or SP-01 if you want a rail) varieties or the full size Sig (I think it's the P226, but may be the P229). Both types are great guns and are a little bit smaller than the big Beretta is you find the grip on it is a bit of a stretch.
 

CPTNQUIRK

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#46
While not in the list, I hope you don't mind me throwing a few ideas your way.

If you're looking at the Berettas as a full-size, all metal, durable pistol, I'd also suggest the CZ 75 (or SP-01 if you want a rail) varieties or the full size Sig (I think it's the P226, but may be the P229). Both types are great guns and are a little bit smaller than the big Beretta is you find the grip on it is a bit of a stretch.
Thanks, I'll have a look at them. The 92FS feels good in my hand, which is fairly big. The only reason that I am considering the 92 A1 is because of the rail. Are there any negatives to the 92 A1 compared to the 92FS?
 

State

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#47
Thanks, I'll have a look at them. The 92FS feels good in my hand, which is fairly big. The only reason that I am considering the 92 A1 is because of the rail. Are there any negatives to the 92 A1 compared to the 92FS?
I was going to say that with your hands, you could probably handle the Beretta, but for a lot of people the grip is too big. If you're looking for a full-size 9mm you might go with a SigSauer 226 and I think others would recommend it as well. It does cost a bit more than the Beretta and it doesn't have a manual safety if that's something you absolutely have to have.
 

OSU Sig

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#48
If it is purely for home protection, I would look at something other than a handgun, especially a low capacity one. I think it is important to not handicap yourself when you are in your own home and you control the setting. When concealing isn't an issue, go big. My personal pick would be an AR with a light/laser. With a 30rd mag, I think it is going to be much more effective than a shotgun. Usually a shotgun's pattern wont open up more than a few inches at ranges inside a house. On top of that they are low capacity and slow to reload. With an AR, anyone can pretty much hold off any threat in their house regardless of who and how many. The .223 ballistics are actually better for home defense than a 9mms. They seem to frag or tumble after first contact so it lessens the chance of it going through multiple walls (like a second bedroom)
I am afraid I'll have to disagree with your position on a 223 being better than a shotgun. If you plan to be in an extended gun battle at range, you would be correct but gun battles may not last long and they may be inside 30 meters.
In the stress that will surely surround the notion that I am going to have to kill this perp in order to protect my family and self, I want every advantage I can get. Inside 30 meters, a shotgun is worlds more effective than an AR. Imagine how your heart rate will affect looking through a scope or attempting to locate a target with a red dot. Now compare that to what looking down the barrel of a shotgun is like. I keep a shotgun at the ready in case I have to do battle inside my home. I have rifles and handguns that are also standing by but if I were able to inflict multiple wounds on a bad guy with one shot, that's better than attempting to shoot a moving target with a 55 grain bullet. At least, that is what I believe.
 

PokealypseNow

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#49
I am afraid I'll have to disagree with your position on a 223 being better than a shotgun. If you plan to be in an extended gun battle at range, you would be correct but gun battles may not last long and they may be inside 30 meters.
In the stress that will surely surround the notion that I am going to have to kill this perp in order to protect my family and self, I want every advantage I can get. Inside 30 meters, a shotgun is worlds more effective than an AR. Imagine how your heart rate will affect looking through a scope or attempting to locate a target with a red dot. Now compare that to what looking down the barrel of a shotgun is like. I keep a shotgun at the ready in case I have to do battle inside my home. I have rifles and handguns that are also standing by but if I were able to inflict multiple wounds on a bad guy with one shot, that's better than attempting to shoot a moving target with a 55 grain bullet. At least, that is what I believe.
Not to mention if a DA decided to make a political example out of you, that scary black rifle is going to look more menacing by an order of magnitude than a wood stocked shotgun to a jury. Not worth it to me.
 

OSU Sig

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#50
Erick and OSU Sig, I am looking to buy a pistol for concealed carry(mostly for a loaded gun in a vehicle) and a rifle for varmints on the ranch (Coyotes, stray dogs, etc.). I think that I have decided on a Browning X-bolt Stainless Stalker .22-250 for the rifle. I can't seem to make up my mind on the pistol, however. I don't think that I want a .45 so I am leaning toward a Beretta 9mm 92FS INOX or a 92A1. Which on of these pistols, or any other suggestions, would you choose?Where would be the best place to get these guns?
I would hold off on the X Bolt. I'm not hearing much good about them. If you are looking for an excellent shooting, good value in a rifle, look at the Tikka T-3 in 22-250. It's made by Sako and the barrels come off the same equipment Sako barrels do. Simply put, the Tikka may be among the best values in center fire rifles and are certainly among the most accurate. Tikka rifles come with scope rings which is another benefit.
There are so many good handguns out there that I would be doing you a disservice by recommending one over all the others. The best thing for you to do is to go to your local gunshop and look, feel and grip all of the ones you can. H&H in OKC will allow you to shoot a model if you are interested in buying it. That is the best way to see which one feels best in your hands. I'm not a huge 9mm fan but ammo is inexpensive and can be found almost everywhere.
 

Erick

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#51
Erick and OSU Sig, I am looking to buy a pistol for concealed carry(mostly for a loaded gun in a vehicle) and a rifle for varmints on the ranch (Coyotes, stray dogs, etc.). I think that I have decided on a Browning X-bolt Stainless Stalker .22-250 for the rifle. I can't seem to make up my mind on the pistol, however. I don't think that I want a .45 so I am leaning toward a Beretta 9mm 92FS INOX or a 92A1. Which on of these pistols, or any other suggestions, would you choose?Where would be the best place to get these guns?
The Beretta is a very nice gun. It's a reliable gun and has nice operations. The major down side is it's size, It would be pretty difficult to conceal. Like State said, Sigs make great medium sized guns like the 226 and the 229. This weekend I went shooting with a friend of mine that was in the Air Force that carried a Beretta 92. When he was looking for a full sized gun so I had him shoot my HK USP .45. He loved it and I found him one. He told me this weekend that he wouldn't take the Beretta back if someone offered him a million dollars and the trade. You can get a police trade in now in excellent condition for $539 plus FFL transfer at CDNN. They also have Berettas and Sigs for great bargains.

http://site.cdnninvestments.com/CDNN2012-2/index.html


As far as rifles, like always, I must suggest the AR. They can be had for around $700 and there isn't much you cant do with it. They are also upgradeable on your schedule and cheap to shoot. I think every law abiding responsible citizen needs one.

I don't know much about the Browning rifles, but it looks nice. I love the Tikka T3 for a rifle under $800 (they are around $500-600. They are amazing shooters. As far as a varmint round, it's had to beat the 22-250, but it is expensive to shoot. Depending on the range, a .223 might be enough to do what you want to do for a fraction of the cost in ammo.
 

Erick

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#52
I am afraid I'll have to disagree with your position on a 223 being better than a shotgun. If you plan to be in an extended gun battle at range, you would be correct but gun battles may not last long and they may be inside 30 meters.
In the stress that will surely surround the notion that I am going to have to kill this perp in order to protect my family and self, I want every advantage I can get. Inside 30 meters, a shotgun is worlds more effective than an AR. Imagine how your heart rate will affect looking through a scope or attempting to locate a target with a red dot. Now compare that to what looking down the barrel of a shotgun is like. I keep a shotgun at the ready in case I have to do battle inside my home. I have rifles and handguns that are also standing by but if I were able to inflict multiple wounds on a bad guy with one shot, that's better than attempting to shoot a moving target with a 55 grain bullet. At least, that is what I believe.
This is a great debate and I think it could go about either way depending on who you are and where you live. My position on the AR being the better home defense gun is based on a few things. One, the ballistics of the .223 and how a home's wall affect it. Only bird shot is better. Score one for the shotgun. However, close ranges inside a house you are generally looking a 5'-30' besides hallways. A shotgun's pattern wont be much more than a few inches. That's not going to help much in a stressful situation. What will help is a very large capacity and automatic loading.......and a bayonet!
 

OSU Sig

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#55
This is a great debate and I think it could go about either way depending on who you are and where you live. My position on the AR being the better home defense gun is based on a few things. One, the ballistics of the .223 and how a home's wall affect it. Only bird shot is better. Score one for the shotgun. However, close ranges inside a house you are generally looking a 5'-30' besides hallways. A shotgun's pattern wont be much more than a few inches. That's not going to help much in a stressful situation. What will help is a very large capacity and automatic loading.......and a bayonet!
I must correct you on pattern at 10 yards. Cylinder bore shotguns with spreader wads, shooting bird shot will expand a pattern that will completely cover a human body's width at, say 15'. Multiple wounds beat a single wound for stopping an advance, every time.
 

pokefun

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#56
I must correct you on pattern at 10 yards. Cylinder bore shotguns with spreader wads, shooting bird shot will expand a pattern that will completely cover a human body's width at, say 15'. Multiple wounds beat a single wound for stopping an advance, every time.
Plus one on the shotgun! The only way I would use a high power for home defense is if it is my only weapon. There is too much chance of blowing thru a wall and hurting an unintended target.
 

Erick

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#57
I must correct you on pattern at 10 yards. Cylinder bore shotguns with spreader wads, shooting bird shot will expand a pattern that will completely cover a human body's width at, say 15'. Multiple wounds beat a single wound for stopping an advance, every time.
We need to conduct a study!

Plus one on the shotgun! The only way I would use a high power for home defense is if it is my only weapon. There is too much chance of blowing thru a wall and hurting an unintended target.
That chance is greatly reduced with a 55grain .223 bullet. In a study conducted on bullets in a home, the .223 performed better than everything except bird shot. The test was conducted to see what bullets dropped or fell apart after hitting two drywall partitions to simulate a master bedroom wall, a hall way and a second bedroom wall.
 

pokefun

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#59
That chance is greatly reduced with a 55grain .223 bullet. In a study conducted on bullets in a home, the .223 performed better than everything except bird shot. The test was conducted to see what bullets dropped or fell apart after hitting two drywall partitions to simulate a master bedroom wall, a hall way and a second bedroom wall.
What bullets in the .223? I would like to see the study, not that I don't believe you, but that I find it interesting that a rifle round would be stopped that easily. You do have me interested enough to load up the AR and so some simulations myself when I get time.
 

Erick

Master in the art of Gemütlichkeit
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#60
What bullets in the .223? I would like to see the study, not that I don't believe you, but that I find it interesting that a rifle round would be stopped that easily. You do have me interested enough to load up the AR and so some simulations myself when I get time.
It looks like Hornady TAP was the best performer. I would like to try it in the .55 grain. The conclusion (the way I see it) was that the light/fragmenting bullet with that velocity will come apart and lose energy...somewhat.
Board #4 simulates the inside wall of a secondary room (such as a second bedroom).

http://www.nj.gov/oag/dcj/njpdresources/pdfs/wallboard_test.pdf

The Truth Box:
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu143.htm

Some interesting test results can be found on that page, especially the shotgun tests.