Basketball 2021/2022 - Potential Improvements

[Jalexjsmithj]

I am super intrigued by Tyreek Smith. His measurables from the "Cowboy Combine" are freakish.

"A lot has been said about Texas Tech transfer Tyreek Smith’s athleticism since his move to OSU, and the combine showed a little bit why. Smith is 6-foot-7 but has a 7-3 wingspan, tied with Kalib Boone for the longest on the team. Smith’s 10-inch hands tied with Bernard Kouma for third-biggest on the team, and Smith also had a 40-inch vertical."

https://pistolsfiringblog.com/oklahoma-state-basketball-players-show-out-at-cowboy-combine/

7'3" wingspan with a 40" vertical is ridiculous. Those are NBA measureables. If he can hold his own on switches and continue to develop his jumpshot, scouts will notice him.

I've been trying to think of a good comp for him because he's a definite 4.5 with his skillset, but he's a little undersized. He fits the size profile of a guy like Robert Covington, maybe a springier Eric Pashcall. But his offensive game doesn't have near the refinement. He can't play on the perimeter like RoCo but those measurables are very impressive.

At any rate, I think Smith is the addition I'm most intrigued to watch.

Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk

Not to be harsh, but he’s just about the guy I’m the least interested in. He’s the same arch-type as MAM, which is definitely useful and something we need, but I don’t really think he offers us anything new except extra foul protection.

The real question to me, is can we play enough spacing in the backcourt and the wing to allow for 2 more traditional bigs to thrive.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jalexjsmithj]

Ice is the other guy that blew up the combine, I was honestly a little surprised by his results. I would not have thought he had the highest vert nor the longest wingspan of the guards. It kind of puts into perspective that he’s actually an NBA caliber athlete. I wonder if he’ll be a guy that can really stick in Europe and get the years he needs to put into his jump shot and then possibly get an NBA contract.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[CowboyFan15]

I am super intrigued by Tyreek Smith. His measurables from the "Cowboy Combine" are freakish.

"A lot has been said about Texas Tech transfer Tyreek Smith’s athleticism since his move to OSU, and the combine showed a little bit why. Smith is 6-foot-7 but has a 7-3 wingspan, tied with Kalib Boone for the longest on the team. Smith’s 10-inch hands tied with Bernard Kouma for third-biggest on the team, and Smith also had a 40-inch vertical."

https://pistolsfiringblog.com/oklahoma-state-basketball-players-show-out-at-cowboy-combine/

7'3" wingspan with a 40" vertical is ridiculous. Those are NBA measureables. If he can hold his own on switches and continue to develop his jumpshot, scouts will notice him.

I've been trying to think of a good comp for him because he's a definite 4.5 with his skillset, but he's a little undersized. He fits the size profile of a guy like Robert Covington, maybe a springier Eric Pashcall. But his offensive game doesn't have near the refinement. He can't play on the perimeter like RoCo but those measurables are very impressive.

At any rate, I think Smith is the addition I'm most intrigued to watch.

Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk

Not to be harsh, but he’s just about the guy I’m the least interested in. He’s the same arch-type as MAM, which is definitely useful and something we need, but I don’t really think he offers us anything new except extra foul protection.

The real question to me, is can we play enough spacing in the backcourt and the wing to allow for 2 more traditional bigs to thrive.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's not harsh at all. In fact, I think the safe bet for Smith is that he settles into the mold of MAM or McGriff. It's much more likely that he is just a decent backup forward with occasional flashes of supreme athleticism.

I don't want to seem like I'm expecting an All-Big 12 performer. I just think his physical profile combined with his potential skillset compares very favorably to some high level players.

Take for example his physical similarities to Patrick Williams.

Williams:

6'8" 225
7' wingspan
39" vertical


Smith:

6'7" 220
7'3" wingspan
40" vertical

In his lone season at FSU, Williams came off the bench as a backup 3/4. In ~22 minutes per game, he averaged 9.2 points, 4 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 steal, and 1 block with 46/32/83 shooting splits.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect similar production from Smith. Now, what got Williams drafted so highly was his perimeter defense combined with his shot blocking. We don't know if Smith can defend on the perimeter. I can't find any footage to say one way or the other. His 38% from 3 also came on only 8 attempts so that's far too small of a sample size to draw any conclusions. But we do know he can rim protect.

Smith had nearly double the block rate of Williams - 10.5% vs. 5.6%. And Smith's rebound rate of 16.9% dwarfs Williams at 10.5%.

https://twitter.com/RMainvilleLBK/status/1387488805188513794?s=19



Key differences here, however, Williams had the ballhandling, footwork, and jumpshot to play on the perimeter and the footspeed to defend wings on defense. I have no evidence to indicate Smith can do any of those things beside his tiny sample size from Tech and snippets of workout film.

Again, I want to be clear that I don't expect Smith to perform like a lottery pick. Far from it, actually. I just think his physical tools and shot mechanics make for some very intriguing possibilities.

Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk

 

[PJ-OSU]

I am super intrigued by Tyreek Smith. His measurables from the "Cowboy Combine" are freakish.

"A lot has been said about Texas Tech transfer Tyreek Smith’s athleticism since his move to OSU, and the combine showed a little bit why. Smith is 6-foot-7 but has a 7-3 wingspan, tied with Kalib Boone for the longest on the team. Smith’s 10-inch hands tied with Bernard Kouma for third-biggest on the team, and Smith also had a 40-inch vertical."

https://pistolsfiringblog.com/oklahoma-state-basketball-players-show-out-at-cowboy-combine/

7'3" wingspan with a 40" vertical is ridiculous. Those are NBA measureables. If he can hold his own on switches and continue to develop his jumpshot, scouts will notice him.

I've been trying to think of a good comp for him because he's a definite 4.5 with his skillset, but he's a little undersized. He fits the size profile of a guy like Robert Covington, maybe a springier Eric Pashcall. But his offensive game doesn't have near the refinement. He can't play on the perimeter like RoCo but those measurables are very impressive.

At any rate, I think Smith is the addition I'm most intrigued to watch.

Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk

On a different note, I would love to see the numbers from the whole team. I wonder why some info was released and not everyone's. It would be super easy to post a chart with that data. In fact, here we go.

Edit: Maybe there were some unflattering numbers for some on the team and that's why the limited info was presented. My interest is still there.

 

[Sutton4ever]

40" and 7'3 Wingspan. Wow

 

[PJ-OSU]

40" and 7'3 Wingspan. Wow

And, I believe both he and Kalib have quick hops too. In that they can elevate fast when needed to swat shots or get rebounds. Conversely, I think Ice needs to wind up a bit more to get big elevation.

 

[Sutton4ever]

And, I believe both he and Kalib have quick hops too. In that they can elevate fast when needed to swat shots or get rebounds. Conversely, I think Ice needs to wind up a bit more to get big elevation.

I'm surprised by Ice's vertical. He doesn't seem to play with that kind of lift. All the others, MAM, AA, B. Williams all come off as super bouncy.

 

[Sutton4ever]

Not to be harsh, but he’s just about the guy I’m the least interested in. He’s the same arch-type as MAM, which is definitely useful and something we need, but I don’t really think he offers us anything new except extra foul protection.

The real question to me, is can we play enough spacing in the backcourt and the wing to allow for 2 more traditional bigs to thrive.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We're not playing two bigs any longer. That is evident by our recruiting. Smith will play both the 5 and the 4. He's different than MAM. Both are very athletic and finishers at the goal. Smith has the better jumper. MAM is stronger and has some better mobility on offense with the ball.

I don't see Kouma getting very many minutes. I see Kalib, MAM, Smith and fourth guard getting all the minutes at the 4/5 spots.

 

[Jalexjsmithj]

Not to be harsh, but he’s just about the guy I’m the least interested in. He’s the same arch-type as MAM, which is definitely useful and something we need, but I don’t really think he offers us anything new except extra foul protection.

The real question to me, is can we play enough spacing in the backcourt and the wing to allow for 2 more traditional bigs to thrive.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We're not playing two bigs any longer. That is evident by our recruiting. Smith will play both the 5 and the 4. He's different than MAM. Both are very athletic and finishers at the goal. Smith has the better jumper. MAM is stronger and has some better mobility on offense with the ball.

I don't see Kouma getting very many minutes. I see Kalib, MAM, Smith and fourth guard getting all the minutes at the 4/5 spots.

We played Kalib and MAM together every we could last year assuming the fouling situation allowed us. We’ve got 4 bench front court players on the team (6 total with 2 starters), we’re still aiming to play 2 bigs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[PokeJ]

And, I believe both he and Kalib have quick hops too. In that they can elevate fast when needed to swat shots or get rebounds. Conversely, I think Ice needs to wind up a bit more to get big elevation.

I'm surprised by Ice's vertical. He doesn't seem to play with that kind of lift. All the others, MAM, AA, B. Williams all come off as super bouncy.

Best rebounder on the team. ICE is getting it from somewhere


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Sutton4ever]

We played Kalib and MAM together every we could last year assuming the fouling situation allowed us. We’ve got 4 bench front court players on the team (6 total with 2 starters), we’re still aiming to play 2 bigs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I guess if you call MAM a big, then we are playing two bigs. I would consider MAM a forward 3/4 type. He's physical enough to guard 4's. MAM also was forced to play a lot of 5 last year. With Smith here, I don't think that will be the case next season. Hopefully, MAM has improved his perimeter skillset to make him more versatile and harder to guard.

But Newton and Keylan, I can't characterize as "bigs". But they will play some 4, as will Ice. Smith, Kalib, and Kouma are our only "bigs" in my mind because it wouldn't be totally out of line for MAM to play some 3, even though I don't think he will see hardly any minutes at that spot with our wealth of guards.

Here's how I would characterize our roster, but I can certainly seeing it framed other ways as well.

Guards (Play the 1-3):
AA, Bryce T, Bryce W, Rondell, Donovan, Harris, Ice
Forwards (Play 3&4):
Ice, Keylan, Newton, MAM
Bigs (Play only 4&5):
Kalib, Smith, Kouma

 

[Nolaeer]

 

[Sutton4ever]

I knows these aren't standing verts. Are they max verts or are they one step verts?

 

[CowboyFan15]

Where does Cisse fit in the lineup?

Boone's backup or his frontcourt running mate? Can they play together offensively? Can Boone survive if he gets pulled out to the perimeter on defense?

Always great to add high-level talent. I have questions about his role, though. Good problem to have.

 

[LS1 Z28]

Where does Cisse fit in the lineup?

Boone's backup or his frontcourt running mate? Can they play together offensively? Can Boone survive if he gets pulled out to the perimeter on defense?

Always great to add high-level talent. I have questions about his role, though. Good problem to have.

That's a good question. After watching Cisse's highlights, it's pretty clear that he's a traditional center that likes to play around the rim. If he's going to be Boone's running mate, Boone will probably have to move to power forward.

Ice & AA probably have starting spots locked down, but there's going to be a lot of competition for the other 3 starting spots going into next season.

Coach Boynton has been recruiting at a high level. He's now brought in 3 different 5-star players in the past 2 years. We may eventually see some players transfer out after getting recruited over, but that's a good problem to have.

 

[TrevB11]

That's a good question. After watching Cisse's highlights, it's pretty clear that he's a traditional center that likes to play around the rim. If he's going to be Boone's running mate, Boone will probably have to move to power forward.

Ice & AA probably have starting spots locked down, but there's going to be a lot of competition for the other 3 starting spots going into next season.

Coach Boynton has been recruiting at a high level. He's now brought in 3 different 5-star players in the past 2 years. We may eventually see some players transfer out after getting recruited over, but that's a good problem to have.

In my mind I would hope that eventually Thompson would play off of AA and Ice taking turns bringing the ball up the court and starting the offense, but we will see maybe someone else will step up before Thompson.

 

[CowboyFan15]

Spacing will be an issue, but that issue would have existed with or without Cisse. Assuming Cisse starts, Kalib will slide up to the 4 taking MAM's (non-shooter) spot.

I predicted previously that Ice, Anderson, and Thompson would all start. I still see that being the case, at least early in the season.

I'll list them in order of what position I see them defending.

Anderson/B. Williams
Thompson/Walker/Harris
Likekele/Ke. Boone/D. Williams
Ka. Boone/MAM/Newton
Cisse/Smith/Kouma

The biggest negative that jumps out is spacing, obviously. That's 3 non-shooters in the starting 5. I think Boynton will need to find ways to limit minutes with more than 2 non-shooters on the floor. That said, that starting lineup may be necessary just to keep everyone happy.

Fortunately, Ice has the versatility to slide up and down the lineup from 1-3, and even 4 situationally. My guess is that Boynton's first substitution each game is for one of the non-shooters.

At first glance, the defense should be very good. A lot of length and defensive intensity in that group. I am a little concerned about Boone's ability to play the 4 on that end, though. Near the end of the season, teams started exploiting MAM by drawing him out of the paint and forcing him to defend in space. I think they'll do the same thing to Kalib.

I think Likekele, Cisse, and Boone will see a lot of staggered minutes to avoid both the offensive and defensive weaknesses that trio presents. Ideally, Likekele is only on the floor with one of them for the majority of his minutes.

Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk

 

[Tall Cowboy]

Crazy deep roster. We aren't going to have a 14-man rotation and there are really no scrubs.

Really big, really athletic.

Shooting is probably going to be the achilles heel, but at least the rest of our strengths will exist every night.

 

[Sutton4ever]

Crazy deep roster. We aren't going to have a 14-man rotation and there are really no scrubs.

Really big, really athletic.

Shooting is probably going to be the achilles heal, but at least the rest of our strengths will exist every night.

I would say that Harris, D. Williams, and Kouma are the odd men out right now. I would also say that Newton and Keylan have work to do to crack the rotation. Like you said, these guys aren't scrubs by any means.

5 Guards (1-3 spots) who are likely playing:
Ice, AA, Walker, B Williams, B. Thompson

4 Bigs (4-5 spots) who are likely playing: And I think we will see Ice at the 4 as well.
Kalib, MAM, Cisse, Smith

Who starts and how many minutes each guy plays is completely unknown at this moment.

 

[teachum]

I would say that Harris, D. Williams, and Kouma are the odd men out right now. I would also say that Newton and Keylan have work to do to crack the rotation. Like you said, these guys aren't scrubs by any means.

5 Guards (1-3 spots) who are likely playing:
Ice, AA, Walker, B Williams, B. Thompson

4 Bigs (4-5 spots) who are likely playing: And I think we will see Ice at the 4 as well.
Kalib, MAM, Cisse, Smith

Who starts and how many minutes each guy plays is completely unknown at this moment.

Kouma could stand a redshirt year anyway for development, if he hasn't done that already.