Basketball Off-season Thread

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Oct 29, 2016
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How many contributors will play next yr from our #1 recruiting class?

And since that time how many high school players have we signed or have committed?

Do we still have a coach who is a “great” recruiter?

There is 0 momentum with our program right now. We are still missing the one position that we desperately need.

Boynton has struggled mightily w rotation management and chemistry on the floor. Next season depends on those factors probably as much as anything else.

No more excuses. Recruit and get kids signed. Develop those kids. Graduate those kids. And WIN!
For evidence to back up my proclamation, y'all are more than welcome to read previous posts I made at the end of the season. Paraphrasing, i said "let's see how serious Boynton is about keeping his job. If he's serious, he'll tell majority of roster to hit the raid and then hope he hits the jackpot in transfers."

That's exactly what happened. Boynton is out of here at the cincl of next season. He didn't hit the jackpot in transfers.. he foolishly recruited transfers from BFE from mid+majors and below. Once again the roster is filled out by non-power 5 talent. It's gonna be a disaster of a season
 
Apr 12, 2020
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How many contributors will play next yr from our #1 recruiting class?

And since that time how many high school players have we signed or have committed?

Do we still have a coach who is a “great” recruiter?

There is 0 momentum with our program right now. We are still missing the one position that we desperately need.

Boynton has struggled mightily w rotation management and chemistry on the floor. Next season depends on those factors probably as much as anything else.

No more excuses. Recruit and get kids signed. Develop those kids. Graduate those kids. And WIN!
For evidence to back up my proclamation, y'all are more than welcome to read previous posts I made at the end of the season. Paraphrasing, i said "let's see how serious Boynton is about keeping his job. If he's serious, he'll tell majority of roster to hit the raid and then hope he hits the jackpot in transfers."

That's exactly what happened. Boynton is out of here at the cincl of next season. He didn't hit the jackpot in transfers.. he foolishly recruited transfers from BFE from mid+majors and below. Once again the roster is filled out by non-power 5 talent. It's gonna be a disaster of a season
It’s called complimentary pieces, the 3 best guys on the team still include 2 five stars.


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Apr 12, 2020
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Lol, what are you talking about?


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check out the roster.
we have some big time transfers coming in.get your tickets now
It’s been all of 1 season since he got two 5 stars from the portal. I can get plenty of complaints about Boynton but going after his recruiting acumen is a pea-brain take.

He picked up 3 experienced guys who showed the ability to space the floor at their previous stops.


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OSUCowboy787

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Dec 31, 2008
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For evidence to back up my proclamation, y'all are more than welcome to read previous posts I made at the end of the season. Paraphrasing, i said "let's see how serious Boynton is about keeping his job. If he's serious, he'll tell majority of roster to hit the raid and then hope he hits the jackpot in transfers."

That's exactly what happened. Boynton is out of here at the cincl of next season. He didn't hit the jackpot in transfers.. he foolishly recruited transfers from BFE from mid+majors and below. Once again the roster is filled out by non-power 5 talent. It's gonna be a disaster of a season


I believe it is much more important to get team players and complimentary pieces than shooting for all 5 stars, which we don't typically get them like the Kentucky's or Kansas' of the world. So we need the team guys that hustle and fit what we're trying to do.
 
Sep 23, 2010
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I love Ice, but it was time for us and more importantly, Boynton to move on. He gave OSU his all, but he has serious limitations on offense that made us stagnant at times. Rondel has all the potential in the world, but he kinda sucked last year. MAM was a turnover machine. Bryce W, Keylan, and Donovan weren’t Big 12 caliber guys in my opinion. So yeah, give me the new guys.

Another way to look at it is to ask yourself if you think any of guys that transferred out would have been first team all conference in the conferences the incoming guys are coming from? Other than Ice, I seriously don’t think they would have been first team all conference in the lower conferences. So based on that fact alone, I think we upgraded our talent.
I agree with Ice. It was just time. But MAM and Walker are Big 12 caliber players in my opinion who had a lot tread on the tires. I do think they are capable of being all league players in those low major leagues. In fact, after their freshmen years, I thought both were capable of becoming all league (maybe not first team) in the big 12. MAM was 9pt,5reb per game and Walker was 8pts, 3reb per game. And that team went 11-7 in league play. Then the rotation was a complete mess this season. Both of them lost their confidence and we are where we are. I don't want to completely blame Boynton. There is shared responsibilities for players to keep developing themselves and perform when they get the opportunity. But the circumstances were difficult.
 
Jul 27, 2011
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I love Ice, but it was time for us and more importantly, Boynton to move on. He gave OSU his all, but he has serious limitations on offense that made us stagnant at times. Rondel has all the potential in the world, but he kinda sucked last year. MAM was a turnover machine. Bryce W, Keylan, and Donovan weren’t Big 12 caliber guys in my opinion. So yeah, give me the new guys.

Another way to look at it is to ask yourself if you think any of guys that transferred out would have been first team all conference in the conferences the incoming guys are coming from? Other than Ice, I seriously don’t think they would have been first team all conference in the lower conferences. So based on that fact alone, I think we upgraded our talent.
I agree with Ice. It was just time. But MAM and Walker are Big 12 caliber players in my opinion who had a lot tread on the tires. I do think they are capable of being all league players in those low major leagues. In fact, after their freshmen years, I thought both were capable of becoming all league (maybe not first team) in the big 12. MAM was 9pt,5reb per game and Walker was 8pts, 3reb per game. And that team went 11-7 in league play. Then the rotation was a complete mess this season. Both of them lost their confidence and we are where we are. I don't want to completely blame Boynton. There is shared responsibilities for players to keep developing themselves and perform when they get the opportunity. But the circumstances were difficult.
You may be right about MAM. I thought he had a lot of potential coming into the season, but he was flat out bad. Could be confidence. Who knows?

But he was not good on either end of the floor.

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Sep 23, 2018
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MAM thought his game including dribbling, I'm sure he was successful at it in high school. Some coach of ours either encouraged it OR at least didn't correct it in practice, either way in the Big 12 you have to be really good at it to not turn the ball over. Combine the dribbling turnovers with the blatant charges and you end up riding the pine. He was a good player with a huge upside, but he wanted his game to be something it wasn't.
Either way Ice went I'm happy for him, probably good for everyone that he moved on. I can't wait to watch him play for Ohio state.
 
Apr 12, 2020
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I get some regret over MAM leaving, as I think he was extremely talented and we are definitely front court light now.

However, I think this deficit may accidentally back us into something great with one of the more puzzling players on the team… Kalib.

If we are forced to play 4 guards around Kalib, then that’s great. Kalib has been more limited by the lack of spacing than anyone else, as unstoppable as his back to the basket game seems 1 on 1, post ups are inherently incredibly weak vs double teams. MAM or Ice charging under the basket or even trying to be on the perimeter but being left completely alone, is what allowed a second defender to help on Kalib. 4 guards around Kalib could really unlock the offense in the 2nd team.


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Sep 23, 2010
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You may be right about MAM. I thought he had a lot of potential coming into the season, but he was flat out bad. Could be confidence. Who knows?

But he was not good on either end of the floor.

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MAM's freshman year, he was best as a small ball 5. Letting him handle or even putting him at the wing was a terrible idea. He was forced to play 5 with Kalib getting in foul trouble and Kouma not being good enough his freshmen year.

Added Smith and Cisse. Made things hard for Kalib and MAM. I'm not sure which combo was actually better though? Towards last half of the season, MAM and Kalib were pretty darn good in 20-21.

I still think it will be hard to play 2 out of the 3 at the same time -- Smith, Kalib, Cisse. Not much perimeter defense of offense there in the new spacing world we live in. Not having Ice could help with the spacing while playing two of them.
 
Sep 23, 2010
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I get some regret over MAM leaving, as I think he was extremely talented and we are definitely front court light now.

However, I think this deficit may accidentally back us into something great with one of the more puzzling players on the team… Kalib.

If we are forced to play 4 guards around Kalib, then that’s great. Kalib has been more limited by the lack of spacing than anyone else, as unstoppable as his back to the basket game seems 1 on 1, post ups are inherently incredibly weak vs double teams. MAM or Ice charging under the basket or even trying to be on the perimeter but being left completely alone, is what allowed a second defender to help on Kalib. 4 guards around Kalib could really unlock the offense in the 2nd team.


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Kalib is easily our post low post player. You can give him the ball and he can score it, whereas Smith and Cisse are more suited rim rollers. I just wonder if we have 4 5's (Kalib, Smith, Cisse, Kouma) without any 4's.
 
Apr 12, 2020
1,246
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Stillwater
I get some regret over MAM leaving, as I think he was extremely talented and we are definitely front court light now.

However, I think this deficit may accidentally back us into something great with one of the more puzzling players on the team… Kalib.

If we are forced to play 4 guards around Kalib, then that’s great. Kalib has been more limited by the lack of spacing than anyone else, as unstoppable as his back to the basket game seems 1 on 1, post ups are inherently incredibly weak vs double teams. MAM or Ice charging under the basket or even trying to be on the perimeter but being left completely alone, is what allowed a second defender to help on Kalib. 4 guards around Kalib could really unlock the offense in the 2nd team.


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Kalib is easily our post low post player. You can give him the ball and he can score it, whereas Smith and Cisse are more suited rim rollers. I just wonder if we have 4 5's (Kalib, Smith, Cisse, Kouma) without any 4's.
I think realistically we’re going to start Smith and Cisse together. They both have a good perimeter defense for bigs, and with those 2 we could possibly dominate the boards. On offense, we’ll need the spacing from Avery and BT to develop and hope that Asberry is a knock down shooter to surround those 2 with plenty of space.

Then Kalib gets to play with either Newton or Harrison at the 4 in a super spaced out line up.


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Sep 23, 2010
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I think realistically we’re going to start Smith and Cisse together. They both have a good perimeter defense for bigs, and with those 2 we could possibly dominate the boards. On offense, we’ll need the spacing from Avery and BT to develop and hope that Asberry is a knock down shooter to surround those 2 with plenty of space.

Then Kalib gets to play with either Newton or Harrison at the 4 in a super spaced out line up.


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I don't disagree with this. Will Kalib have the temperament to deal with being a guy coming off the bench? Him being up and down has been the big setback with him in his career. Can he and Cisse play any minutes together? I feel like our four best players are AA, Bryce, Kalib and Cisse. I can't speak about the freshman or the transfers right now.
 

PokeJ

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Oct 27, 2003
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I get some regret over MAM leaving, as I think he was extremely talented and we are definitely front court light now.

However, I think this deficit may accidentally back us into something great with one of the more puzzling players on the team… Kalib.

If we are forced to play 4 guards around Kalib, then that’s great. Kalib has been more limited by the lack of spacing than anyone else, as unstoppable as his back to the basket game seems 1 on 1, post ups are inherently incredibly weak vs double teams. MAM or Ice charging under the basket or even trying to be on the perimeter but being left completely alone, is what allowed a second defender to help on Kalib. 4 guards around Kalib could really unlock the offense in the 2nd team.


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Kalib is easily our post low post player. You can give him the ball and he can score it, whereas Smith and Cisse are more suited rim rollers. I just wonder if we have 4 5's (Kalib, Smith, Cisse, Kouma) without any 4's.
I think realistically we’re going to start Smith and Cisse together. They both have a good perimeter defense for bigs, and with those 2 we could possibly dominate the boards. On offense, we’ll need the spacing from Avery and BT to develop and hope that Asberry is a knock down shooter to surround those 2 with plenty of space.

Then Kalib gets to play with either Newton or Harrison at the 4 in a super spaced out line up.


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Kalib gives no effort on the defensive end. That’s what keeps him on the bench


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Sep 23, 2010
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Kalib gives no effort on the defensive end. That’s what keeps him on the bench


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He has moments. But when Kalib is sulky, the defense is bad and he plays soft. When he's high energy, he's one of our best players and has helped us win Big 12 games against good teams. Like I said, his spirit is up and down. It has to get more consistent. I thought at the end of his sophomore year, he was solving that problem. Adding two players that ate into his minutes substantiated the problem.
 

POPOKE

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I love Ice, but it was time for us and more importantly, Boynton to move on. He gave OSU his all, but he has serious limitations on offense that made us stagnant at times. Rondel has all the potential in the world, but he kinda sucked last year. MAM was a turnover machine. Bryce W, Keylan, and Donovan weren’t Big 12 caliber guys in my opinion. So yeah, give me the new guys.

Another way to look at it is to ask yourself if you think any of guys that transferred out would have been first team all conference in the conferences the incoming guys are coming from? Other than Ice, I seriously don’t think they would have been first team all conference in the lower conferences. So based on that fact alone, I think we upgraded our talent.
I agree with Ice. It was just time. But MAM and Walker are Big 12 caliber players in my opinion who had a lot tread on the tires. I do think they are capable of being all league players in those low major leagues. In fact, after their freshmen years, I thought both were capable of becoming all league (maybe not first team) in the big 12. MAM was 9pt,5reb per game and Walker was 8pts, 3reb per game. And that team went 11-7 in league play. Then the rotation was a complete mess this season. Both of them lost their confidence and we are where we are. I don't want to completely blame Boynton. There is shared responsibilities for players to keep developing themselves and perform when they get the opportunity. But the circumstances were difficult.
I agree MAM and Walker are Big 12 or other P5 talent guys. Go back and read what I said. I said I thought Donovan Williams, Keylan, and Bryce Williams weren’t Big 12 caliber guys. But I disagree that MAM and Walker would make a first team in a lower conference. MAM is too turnover and foul prone and Walker is just a really good role player.
 
Sep 23, 2010
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I agree MAM and Walker are Big 12 or other P5 talent guys. Go back and read what I said. I said I thought Donovan Williams, Keylan, and Bryce Williams weren’t Big 12 caliber guys. But I disagree that MAM and Walker would make a first team in a lower conference. MAM is too turnover and foul prone and Walker is just a really good role player.
The Sun Belt and the Big South are low majors. They only get one team each year to the NCAA. MAM and Walker nearly avg double figures as freshmen on a team that went 11-7 in the best conference in the country. It's not a reach to think they would be all league players, averaging 15plus per game in those leagues. And as important, they would likely be those league's most impactful defenders as well. Those league teams have zero chance of landing Walker and MAM at this point.