BPS seat widening

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CTeamPoke

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...in and of itself... (sorry for the disconnected reply).

There is the "build it and they will come theory". That is marketing 101 - create your own demand. Plus the time element of when a need is identified but yet it takes years to accommodate it is difficult - reconciling those is risky.

Your pricing theory until a waiting list is created is flawed, it is old school thinking, period. The variable of most games being on TV/streaming, and the younger generation's relationship with instant feedback/technology will most likely impact not expanding more than anything else.

As an old guy I would argue the build it, it creates excitement and they will come. But the realist in me says we need to figure out how to get the younger generation engaged, It's a different and changing world.
I'm sorry... but for our most successful sport we struggle to get 3,000 people into the stands and the "build it and they will come" philosophy has failed our basketball program. You can build marketing on hopes and dreams, but economics is based on fact. It's not "old school thinking" it's common logic.
 

Jostate

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I'm sorry... but for our most successful sport we struggle to get 3,000 people into the stands and the "build it and they will come" philosophy has failed our basketball program. You can build marketing on hopes and dreams, but economics is based on fact. It's not "old school thinking" it's common logic.
It worked quite well for our basketball for a while there. I don't like the idea of building to fit bad times, not good. Things will turn around and we will be glad we have the seats.

Sometimes you have to be a little optimistic to grow.
 

CTeamPoke

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It worked quite well for our basketball for a while there. I don't like the idea of building to fit bad times, not good. Things will turn around and we will be glad we have the seats.

Sometimes you have to be a little optimistic to grow.
Ok... but what would you call times right now for football bad? I sure as shit wouldn't... and we can't fill up the stadium unless they give away tickets.
 

Jostate

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Ok... but what would you call times right now for football bad? I sure as shit wouldn't... and we can't fill up the stadium unless they give away tickets.
You keep saying that as if there are big open sections. I'm at work but if I have to I can find the numbers again. We aren't selling out but we are over 90% in many games. Our capacity is around 60, less 5 for visitors that leaves 55k. We'll have over 50 season ticket holders again next year.

We are filling up pretty well.

BTW where are these free tickets? I missed those deals.
 
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If the athletic department really wanted more people in the seats, they would drop the prices until they were there. But once you sellout of a product, you potentially have "lost" revenue because it generally means you under priced your product. That is why you continually see us selling a lot of our tickets but never all, they are maximizing profit. I also think this is why some of the football prices went down last year (west end zone here), they must not have been selling as many as they would like so they dropped price to try to get that number higher. I don't think we are aiming to "sell out".
 

CTeamPoke

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If the athletic department really wanted more people in the seats, they would drop the prices until they were there. But once you sellout of a product, you potentially have "lost" revenue because it generally means you under priced your product. That is why you continually see us selling a lot of our tickets but never all, they are maximizing profit. I also think this is why some of the football prices went down last year (west end zone here), they must not have been selling as many as they would like so they dropped price to try to get that number higher. I don't think we are aiming to "sell out".
Tickets are already cheap. People that think that they are too expensive have an unrealistic expectation of how much a ticket should be. Our fan base simply isn't big enough to support a stadium larger than what we have.
 

CTeamPoke

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You keep saying that as if there are big open sections. I'm at work but if I have to I can find the numbers again. We aren't selling out but we are over 90% in many games. Our capacity is around 60, less 5 for visitors that leaves 55k. We'll have over 50 season ticket holders again next year.

We are filling up pretty well.

BTW where are these free tickets? I missed those deals.
I keep saying it because I can see it with my eyes, which aren't really all that great, but there are a lot of empty seats. Enough that even the players commented on it this past season. I don't know what reality you live in... but the attendance numbers reported are not matching the actual attendance. Just like the Dallas Mavericks are in year 16 of consecutive "sellouts." Sure, the tickets may have sold, but to whom I have no idea... Probably back to the athletic department that they give away to charities to write off.
 

Jostate

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Tickets are already cheap. People that think that they are too expensive have an unrealistic expectation of how much a ticket should be. Our fan base simply isn't big enough to support a stadium larger than what we have.
I agree. But I can't join you in this sentiment that it has to be that way until about a decade after we colonize Mars.

There are more OSU graduates in Oklahoma than OU. Just keep winning and maybe it won't seem so crazy one of these days.
 

CTeamPoke

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I agree. But I can't join you in this sentiment that it has to be that way until about a decade after we colonize Mars.

There are more OSU graduates in Oklahoma than OU. Just keep winning and maybe it won't seem so crazy one of these days.
That may be but they clearly don't give a rip about the sports teams.
 

Jostate

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Tickets are already cheap. People that think that they are too expensive have an unrealistic expectation of how much a ticket should be. Our fan base simply isn't big enough to support a stadium larger than what we have.
I learned to go through stub hub. I was buying through the university, and for 3 to go to a non conference game was $270. That sounds like a lot to me.
 

CTeamPoke

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I learned to go through stub hub. I was buying through the university, and for 3 to go to a non conference game was $270. That sounds like a lot to me.
Average ticket price for football should be around $75. $270 sounds reasonable for three something near mid field and in the 200 level. Also, buying an odd number of tickets usually leaves a single seat, which is a big no-no in ticket sales.
 
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Tickets are already cheap. People that think that they are too expensive have an unrealistic expectation of how much a ticket should be. Our fan base simply isn't big enough to support a stadium larger than what we have.
Maybe they are cheap by your definition. I don't think they are cheap or expensive, they are priced about where I think they should be. I agree with you that we don't have enough current support for us to need/desire a larger stadium. But if you go on the assumption that if we add an upper tier that the seats would be cheaper, then it could potentially draw some people. I agree though it would not be anywhere near filled and make us look more empty.

You argument is still based around the fact that it looks empty, and I'm actually agreeing with your conclusion but stating it is happening for a different reason. You are arguing that it is because we don't have enough fans, I would argue instead that we don't have enough fans willing to pay the current price and of those that do not all decide to come to every game. If season tickets were $1 dollar with no donations I bet the stadium would sell out (even if attendance didn't match, attendance does not equal sales). If no last minute emergencies ever came up, I am sure attendance would more closely match sales. But neither of these are likely to happen.
 

Jostate

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Average ticket price for football should be around $75. $270 sounds reasonable for three something near mid field and in the 200 level. Also, buying an odd number of tickets usually leaves a single seat, which is a big no-no in ticket sales.
These were west endzone. The place to be due to larger seats. Back to the previous point, wider seats help.
 
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Anybody know how many seats per row were eliminated?


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All I know is what happened to me on my row (Section 309, Row 3, Seats 37-40). The previous seats were 2 seats in from the aisle on the west end of the section. I'm informed my new seats are 4 seats in from the aisle on the west side. By the numbers, it appears 8 seats were lost on that row.
 

CTeamPoke

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It takes time. But winning does help. The 35k we could always count on when I was growing up has turned into 45k.
Well until there are 65k that are trying to come to every game consistently there is absolutely no reason to have an 80k seat stadium. It's just numbers. I mean... crap... have presidential inauguration attendance number "alt-facts" entered the realm here or what?
 

CTeamPoke

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These were west endzone. The place to be due to larger seats. Back to the previous point, wider seats help.
Wider seats help because they create less seats to be filled. You're contradicting your argument.

Also, you must have been looking at the Ticket Exchange for a high demand game. They were selling WEZ seats for $20/ea. the last couple of seasons. I know because I have all of my tickets listed for sale on Ticket Exchange and every time they do a promo I have to go lower my price below face value to sell them... and I have good seats.
 

Jostate

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Wider seats help because they create less seats to be filled. You're contradicting your argument.

Also, you must have been looking at the Ticket Exchange for a high demand game. They were selling WEZ seats for $20/ea. the last couple of seasons. I know because I have all of my tickets listed for sale on Ticket Exchange and every time they do a promo I have to go lower my price below face value to sell them... and I have good seats.
Wider seats help because 2017 size butts are bigger than 1947 size butts. It became so uncomfortable to sit at a game it kept some people away.
 
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Ok... but what would you call times right now for football bad? I sure as shit wouldn't... and we can't fill up the stadium unless they give away tickets.
There are a few things you should consider. First BPS's capacity is dropping from 60K to 57K with the seats lost. You have to remember attendance numbers come down to tickets sold, not butts in seats. For various reasons there are tickets that are sold every game that go unused. Last season our per game attendance was down at a little over 52K. But two season ago we averaged over 58K per game, which would now be sold out.

Next season should be special. We're going to be a top 10 team going into the season. We'll likely be the preseason favorite to win the league. We're going to have an opportunity to be in the forefront of the college football world. With the reduced capacity, I bet we'll be nearly sold-out. There may be some ultra-expensive season tickets that go unsold, but I would be we'll be at 98-99% capacity.

You mentioned in another post that ticket prices are already low. But if you compare our prices to much of the Big 12, our cheapest ticket is significantly higher than what you'll pay elsewhere. Our cheapest season ticket is $400. At K-State you can get a season ticket for $199. If we were able to add an upper deck, we could offer a similarly priced season ticket. There are a ton of lower income people in Payne County and the surrounding counties that can't afford $800-1200 for season tickets. But a lot more could afford them if they were half the price.

If the product on the field continues to shine and we stay consistently at 95%+ capacity, I would love to see the south side upper deck built in the next decade. Then over the next 10-20 years we could build the north side & end zone as demand allows. I really hope to see it happen some day.