Broken Arrow accused of constitutional violation

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UrbanCowboy1

Some cowboys gots smarts real good like me.
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Do you think individuals sometimes rely on religion to avoid self destructive or selfish behavior? How many churches reach out to help those in need every day? Would you say the government is a more trustworthy mechanism to help those in need?
To the bolded part, I definitely do. It's not 100% bad to be religious. Some people use it to accomplish great things, some don't, and some use it to further their own ends.

As to your last question, I wouldn't trust the government to make me a ham sandwich, so... no. Lol.
 

UrbanCowboy1

Some cowboys gots smarts real good like me.
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No, I wasn't asking you to believe anything. I just couldn't determine to what examples he was referring by "rediculous and nonsensical". But thanks. I see the point now. That being said, I choose to try and look beyond just the words of the stories and parables. My beliefs can be summed up in the Apostles' Creed, including that one day I will be rewarded with definitive answers to all of my questions.
Putting your feet to the fire a bit, and you don't have to answer (obviously), but I would be super curious to know what you think about some of the points @Jostate made. How do you feel about Noah, Jonah, manna from heaven? I remember these things when I was young and believing them, but it became harder and harder to mesh with reality as I got older.
 
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Broken Arrow
So it's been 11 days since a BA spokesperson stated they were checking with the school’s athletic director about the situation and would respond "later". I'm guessing "later" to them means they'll respond when someone brings it up again, but not before?
 

Jostate

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Putting your feet to the fire a bit, and you don't have to answer (obviously), but I would be super curious to know what you think about some of the points @Jostate made. How do you feel about Noah, Jonah, manna from heaven? I remember these things when I was young and believing them, but it became harder and harder to mesh with reality as I got older.
I think he said he views them as parables.
 

okstate987

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Not disputing you (yet), just not sure to what "things" you're referring.
1) The virgin birth of jesus
2) the ressurection of jesus
3) miracles
4) talking snakes
5) end times prophecies
6) anything regarding satan

Just for starters. And before you try to downplay these, go tell your church you don't believe these things and they will call you a heretic and kick you out.

These beliefs are hallmarks of orthodox christianity and several are in virtually every creed.
 
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1) The virgin birth of jesus
2) the ressurection of jesus
3) miracles
4) talking snakes
5) end times prophecies
6) anything regarding satan

Just for starters. And before you try to downplay these, go tell your church you don't believe these things and they will call you a heretic and kick you out.

These beliefs are hallmarks of orthodox christianity and several are in virtually every creed.
See my earlier responses.
 

okstate987

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See my earlier responses.
I see them, and the apostles creed that you say you believe would be exhibit A of the nonsense IMO:
I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth;

And in Jesus Christ his only Son, our Lord;
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, dead, and buried;*
the third day he rose from the dead;
he ascended into heaven,
and sitteth at the right hand of God the Father Almighty;
from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic** church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.
 
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I see them, and the apostles creed that you say you believe would be exhibit A of the nonsense IMO:
I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth;

And in Jesus Christ his only Son, our Lord;
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, dead, and buried;*
the third day he rose from the dead;
he ascended into heaven,
and sitteth at the right hand of God the Father Almighty;
from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic** church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.
Yea, AND? As I said and you failed to include is how I try to look beyond the words and parables and understand the meaning behind them. I’m not here to try and prove anything to you, nor will I try. Scripture and my religious beliefs go beyond that.
 
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GodsPeace

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I see this a little differently. Probably not by leaps and bounds.

As a Christian, hallelujah! You decided to make a "bold" statement for Christ. I'm all for it.

That said, it doesn't change the fact that there are tons of cases that deal with separation of Church and State, and I cannot see this being allowed from that standpoint. These baptisms cannot be undone, but cases could come of it that rule against allowing this to take place on school grounds. I don't know that for sure, but it is what I suspect.

Coaches are an interesting bunch within schools. They lead prayers all the time before and after games and nobody bats an eye. If I started a history class with one in 1st hour, I bet I have a conference with the principle before lunch. People(who are not generally legal scholars) don't view my position and theirs the same.

As to Noah, Jonah, talking Donkeys, Creation, Virgin Birth, Resurrection...I have FAITH.

There is next to nothing that I could do to prove any of those things. I used to be super impressed(still am at times) regarding biblical archaeological finds that confirm biblical stories. Problem is they cannot prove that Moses stood before a burning bush that wasn't consumed by the fire. They cannot prove that Red Sea parted. They cannot prove the Divinity of Christ. I have faith in those things being true.

I don't remember who referenced the church of satan doing something on campuses, and it really makes me think. Remember the monument at the Oklahoma State Capitol? Would I be stoked if my daughters were preached to about other faiths in school? No. As a teacher I mention my faith frequently, and have had many discussions(usually not on class) regarding faith issues. I don't attempt to proselytize.
 

okstate987

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Yea, AND? As I said and you failed to include is how I try to look beyond the words and parables and understand the meaning behind them. I’m not here to try and prove anything to you, nor will I try. Scripture and my religious beliefs go beyond that.
*your interpretation of scripture. Scripture isn't an open and shut thing my man and what you really mean is your own, probably eisegetical interpretation of it.
 

okstate987

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That's pretty cynical even by my standards.
Not really. Wonder why so many churches struggle with sexual misconduct? Its because natural expression of it is repressed, so what happens? It comes out as then a large variety of misconduct. Wonder why pedophilia is such a problem in the preisthood? Its because priests cannot marry, much less have consensual sex with a partner/spouse. This isn't rocket science.
 

GodsPeace

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Not really. Wonder why so many churches struggle with sexual misconduct? Its because natural expression of it is repressed, so what happens? It comes out as then a large variety of misconduct. Wonder why pedophilia is such a problem in the preisthood? Its because priests cannot marry, much less have consensual sex with a partner/spouse. This isn't rocket science.
I don't totally disagree with this. Sexual subjects can be handled much better in most churches that I've attended, and I am grateful that mine tries to do so. I think repression kills any real discussion or understanding whatsoever. You don't have to condone anything to be a good human.

I think there are also people that gravitate to church service who try to use it to suppress their own inclinations and fail. The Catholic Church is not alone in this, as you well know. I don't think it is surprising when someone speaks so vehemently about some sins that they fall to the same.

I don't think the marriage aspect is really related to pedophilia though. Not being married or having sex available to me wouldn't make minors of the same sex suddenly attractive to me. I could see affairs or whatever taking place, but pedophilia?
 

okstate987

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I don't totally disagree with this. Sexual subjects can be handled much better in most churches that I've attended, and I am grateful that mine tries to do so. I think repression kills any real discussion or understanding whatsoever. You don't have to condone anything to be a good human.

I think there are also people that gravitate to church service who try to use it to suppress their own inclinations and fail. The Catholic Church is not alone in this, as you well know. I don't think it is surprising when someone speaks so vehemently about some sins that they fall to the same.

I don't think the marriage aspect is really related to pedophilia though. Not being married or having sex available to me wouldn't make minors of the same sex suddenly attractive to me. I could see affairs or whatever taking place, but pedophilia?
Affairs happen with the preisthood at a much higher rate than pedophilia in the catholic church, they just don't make the headlines because they are not a heinous crime. Part of why it happens is because of access. They are very close to altar boys/other youth due to the layout of services and participation of youth in those services & catechism.
 

okstate987

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You failed to include the context in which I made that comment. My faith and my belief are not here for me to try to prove anything to you or anyone else, nor do I believe the scripture written to try and prove anything.
You obviously think that scripture says something, which lends it to your own, human, interpretation. Otherwise you would have left it at that, not this:
I’m not here to try and prove anything to you, nor will I try. Scripture and my religious beliefs go beyond that.
Its pretty simple.