BYU, Cincy, Houston, UCF will join B12 07/23

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Midnight Toker

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#61
Do you think that the Big12 would be willing to negotiate a lower buyout?

From what I understand OU/Texas both owe the Big12 $80m in exit fees. That’s regardless of when they leave If they leave before 2025 they either have to pay in addition to the exit fees.
Why negotiate, a deal is a deal. They either pony up or they stay. Why be nice to them, business is business.
Well there might be a couple reasons for that.
One could be that while Oklahoma and Texas remain in the big 12, they will be the top two recruiting teams in the conference. So if they are gone, then that might open up some doors.

And of course there’s having a deal with Oklahoma and texas on the field. Yeah, we know Texas sucks and they haven’t been a threat for a while, but Sarkisian knows offense and now he has a quarterback so they could be a threat. Maybe.

Then if there is no negotiation for a buyout, that means the big 12 would receive zero dollars from a negotiated settlement to see these two programs leave. They would just play out their contract, continue to dominate in recruiting and more than likely continue winning the conference.

Other reasons might include just getting a fresh new start with the new teams. So it’s truly the new big 12. I think it would be funny if all these new teams came into the conference and either OU or Texas won it anyway.

But on the other hand, I can see that they don’t want to help them. And negotiating a lower fee to exit would certainly help them. And of course then there’s all the loss of tv revenue and TV viewership numbers. But if they Believe these four new teams would make up for that loss, then it’s no big deal.

So then it just comes down to the bottom line, what does the big 12 gain from keeping these two teams in the conference for the next three seasons? I suppose the payouts to each team would continue to be as high as they are now, and they would be significantly less otherwise without them. Having two blue bloods in the conference does help their reputation of the conference. Increases the likelihood of a playoff or NY6 bowl from the conference

But that good also comes with the bad. That is having to deal with your ex while still living in the same house. And your ex is always leaving the lights on, doesn’t put away the food, and flirting with your new girlfriend, and keeps winning. You have to deal with the possibility, and very real likelihood of having to suffer defeats in recruiting in on the field to your ex who would move out if you just let them.
 

Midnight Toker

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#63
Why negotiate, a deal is a deal. They either pony up or they stay. Why be nice to them, business is business.
That’s what I’m saying as well.

A negotiation requires a party to add value to a deal to achieve a more favorable outcome. otherwise it’s not a negotiation, it’s just lowering the price.

We really have them by the nuts here, I don’t see how lowering their buyout would be a benefit to the Big12 and member institutions without getting back some additional value. I can’t possibly fathom what value OU/UT could possibly add to get a more favorable buyout.
Just knowing you wouldn’t have to play them every year, and go up against them in recruiting battles for the same players. it feels like those two factors alone would be pretty nice for the rest of the conference not to have to deal with
 

gundysburner

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#64
6-6 no, but they'll take 9-3 all day and a shot at the ship. Currently the system does not allow you to absorb more than 1 loss.
My point exactly. Anyone who thinks there wouldn't be an argument made for a 3 loss tOSU or even an A&M is living in fantasyland. We'd hear all about how 'good' their losses were and what a tough schedule they faced. The discussion would also shift to 'do we want the best teams in the playoffs, or are we just looking at records?'
 

Midnight Toker

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#65
Do you think that the Big12 would be willing to negotiate a lower buyout?

From what I understand OU/Texas both owe the Big12 $80m in exit fees. That’s regardless of when they leave If they leave before 2025 they either have to pay in addition to the exit fees.
Why negotiate, a deal is a deal. They either pony up or they stay. Why be nice to them, business is business.
True but at the same time, how much money would they get if they chose to not negotiate anything at all? If Oklahoma and Texas play out their contract, they could just leave without paying any fee, so what would the big 12 gain from that?
 

Midnight Toker

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#66
I think our facilities and successes are going to lead us to the SEC eventually. They are already having scheduling issues with16 teams. They need two more teams to make everything work correctly or they need to kick two out.
I tend to agree, some how, some way I believe we end up in the SEC. It just makes sense, we would fit right in.
At the end of the day everyone wants to be the best and one way to do that is joining up with the best
 

andylicious

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#67
the big east was a bcs conference when WVU was the best brand in it.

so yeah, the new big 12 is a power 5 conference bc it consists of power 5 teams.

Big East proves you dont need a blue blood to have a seat at the big boy table. and all talk of taking away the Big East's seat ended when WVU upset SEC champion georgia in the Sugar Bowl played in atlanta(bc katrina had forced the location to be moved).

Baylor just won the sugar bowl last year, and the remaining teams have beaten good teams in bowls. Big 12 will have a seat, but may not make as much money.
The next thing the Big XII deniers will say is, "We should all unite behind the university in the people's republic of Norman to give Oklahoma a chance at a winning football team" ain't that right you damn hillbilly trolls. We got a conference to build payup your $80,000,000 and gtf out.
 

andylicious

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#68
True but at the same time, how much money would they get if they chose to not negotiate anything at all? If Oklahoma and Texas play out their contract, they could just leave without paying any fee, so what would the big 12 gain from that?
Annoying the hell out of them and two more years of their media rights
 

andylicious

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#69
Just knowing you wouldn’t have to play them every year, and go up against them in recruiting battles for the same players. it feels like those two factors alone would be pretty nice for the rest of the conference not to have to deal with
Then pay up and leave the squalid conditions
 

Midnight Toker

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#71
True but at the same time, how much money would they get if they chose to not negotiate anything at all? If Oklahoma and Texas play out their contract, they could just leave without paying any fee, so what would the big 12 gain from that?
Annoying the hell out of them and two more years of their media rights
So you do recognize the value of TV viewership and how it affects negotiations for TV rights. I think we all know that the new big 12 without Oklahoma and Texas will not be a power player in negotiating TV rights.

My guess is that this is the primary reason why they will not negotiate a buyout. Because having 2 giant programs in the conference means big money payouts for everyone else. It also means the big money payout ends when they leave. And really, those media right gets split 10 ways anyway so it’s not that big of a chunk of $. But, it’s good to see you recognize how valuable it is having blue bloods in your conference. The Value of replacing them with 4 middling programs might not be what you hope.

The value of annoying two programs you don’t like is pretty insignificant I think. Being petty can be expensive. I know that it’s cool to pretend like you don’t need them & don’t want them around, but you keep them around anyway, because you know who brings home the bacon. Top of that you have to deal with recruiting against them and then having to play them on the field.
 

Midnight Toker

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#72
Just knowing you wouldn’t have to play them every year, and go up against them in recruiting battles for the same players. it feels like those two factors alone would be pretty nice for the rest of the conference not to have to deal with
Then pay up and leave the squalid conditions
You clearly misunderstand my comment. It’s the rest of the conference that has to deal with recruiting against Oklahoma and Texas. I know Texas has sucked lately but that’s because they never had a good quarterback. Now they have one so they’re going to be a lot harder to beat. And we all know about Oklahomas dominance of the big 12.

For the record, I’m excited as hell to stay. I really much look forward to the four new teams coming in and the road trips they will allow. It will be a lot easier to win this conference than the SEC so from my perspective it’s a win either way. Honestly, because of the coaching change in roster turnover, I like having a couple extra years to work things out against this Mickey Mouse conference.
 

Midnight Toker

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#73
the big east was a bcs conference when WVU was the best brand in it.

so yeah, the new big 12 is a power 5 conference bc it consists of power 5 teams.

Big East proves you dont need a blue blood to have a seat at the big boy table. and all talk of taking away the Big East's seat ended when WVU upset SEC champion georgia in the Sugar Bowl played in atlanta(bc katrina had forced the location to be moved).

Baylor just won the sugar bowl last year, and the remaining teams have beaten good teams in bowls. Big 12 will have a seat, but may not make as much money.
The next thing the Big XII deniers will say is, "We should all unite behind the university in the people's republic of Norman to give Oklahoma a chance at a winning football team" ain't that right you damn hillbilly trolls. We got a conference to build payup your $80,000,000 and gtf out.
I kind of like the idea of the big 12having to watch Oklahoma win another conference championship or 2 before they dip out. And who knows, we could very well see Oklahoma &Texas play for that title while everyone else watches, knowing that it didn’t have to be this way
 

OstatePokes

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#74
I kind of like the idea of the big 12having to watch Oklahoma win another conference championship or 2 before they dip out. And who knows, we could very well see Oklahoma &Texas play for that title while everyone else watches, knowing that it didn’t have to be this way
OU had more talent last year and didn’t even reach the conference championship game.
 

Midnight Toker

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#76
I kind of like the idea of the big 12having to watch Oklahoma win another conference championship or 2 before they dip out. And who knows, we could very well see Oklahoma &Texas play for that title while everyone else watches, knowing that it didn’t have to be this way
OU had more talent last year and didn’t even reach the conference championship game.
They don’t win it every year obviously, but they’ve done it 14 times. When the next Most accomplished team in the conference is Baylor with 3, it’s a good bet they’ll win again.
 

Midnight Toker

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#77
OU had more talent last year and didn’t even reach the conference championship game.
Right, but that was because Riley was checked out, remember? They were really ready to move on from him anyway and Venables is the next coming of Stoops.
Everyone knows how talented they were last year but they knew from game one that they had problems & they weren’t addressed at all last season.
 
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#78
Well there might be a couple reasons for that.
One could be that while Oklahoma and Texas remain in the big 12, they will be the top two recruiting teams in the conference. So if they are gone, then that might open up some doors.

And of course there’s having a deal with Oklahoma and texas on the field. Yeah, we know Texas sucks and they haven’t been a threat for a while, but Sarkisian knows offense and now he has a quarterback so they could be a threat. Maybe.

Then if there is no negotiation for a buyout, that means the big 12 would receive zero dollars from a negotiated settlement to see these two programs leave. They would just play out their contract, continue to dominate in recruiting and more than likely continue winning the conference.

Other reasons might include just getting a fresh new start with the new teams. So it’s truly the new big 12. I think it would be funny if all these new teams came into the conference and either OU or Texas won it anyway.

But on the other hand, I can see that they don’t want to help them. And negotiating a lower fee to exit would certainly help them. And of course then there’s all the loss of tv revenue and TV viewership numbers. But if they Believe these four new teams would make up for that loss, then it’s no big deal.

So then it just comes down to the bottom line, what does the big 12 gain from keeping these two teams in the conference for the next three seasons? I suppose the payouts to each team would continue to be as high as they are now, and they would be significantly less otherwise without them. Having two blue bloods in the conference does help their reputation of the conference. Increases the likelihood of a playoff or NY6 bowl from the conference

But that good also comes with the bad. That is having to deal with your ex while still living in the same house. And your ex is always leaving the lights on, doesn’t put away the food, and flirting with your new girlfriend, and keeps winning. You have to deal with the possibility, and very real likelihood of having to suffer defeats in recruiting in on the field to your ex who would move out if you just let them.
I think you misunderstand the terms of the exit fees. There is an exit fee PLUS an early termination fee (media rights).

Each school owes approximately $80m to exit the the conference (2 years payout). That’s if you leave in 2023, 2025, or 2055.

If you leave before 2025 - the Big12 owns your media rights so its $80m + payout for 2023 and/or 2024.

You’re not leaving for nothing

Cost to leave
2025+: $80m
2024: $120m
2023: $160m

Now a finance/contract guru would be able to determine a break even point for the conference. Less revenue but less mouths to feed. \_(ツ)_/¯ so there is a number that makes sense to allow OU/UT to leave early. But there is not a number that makes sense to reduce the exit fee.

I could be wrong on this, please show me if I am.

I’m not sure about recruiting and x girlfriends but the Big12 should act in the best financial interest of the remaining and new schools.