Covid-19

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RxCowboy

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But Israel is a very small compact country in comparison to the US and studies are much easier to do there than here. Here in the US we look worldwide for well done studies to help us here. In my opinion the CDC is doing their very best under very difficult circumstances.
Is the medical community at least in agreement that natural immunity is superior to the immunity from the vaccine?
What good does natural immunity do for my sister in law who died from COVID-19 last December? There are good reasons to take the vaccine.

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oks10

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Is the medical community at least in agreement that natural immunity is superior to the immunity from the vaccine?
Contract it naturally with no anti-bodies and have a high risk of hospitalization/death/long term health issues or get a shot so you if DO manage to contract the real thing you'll be fine? I honestly don't see why it's even a question...
 
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Contract it naturally with no anti-bodies and have a high risk of hospitalization/death/long term health issues or get a shot so you if DO manage to contract the real thing you'll be fine? I honestly don't see why it's even a question...
It's the virus of 'The Stupids' that plague this society. There's no protection from them, sadly.
 

RxCowboy

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Is the medical community at least in agreement that natural immunity is superior to the immunity from the vaccine?
Contract it naturally with no anti-bodies and have a high risk of hospitalization/death/long term health issues or get a shot so you if DO manage to contract the real thing you'll be fine? I honestly don't see why it's even a question...
It seems obvious to me.

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RxCowboy

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What good does natural immunity do for my sister in law who died from COVID-19 last December? There are good reasons to take the vaccine.

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I *think* he's talking about people who have a confirmed case already, not people who haven't had the vaccine yet.
I think your assumption is erroneous given his prior statements. It appears that others have taken it the exact same way I did.

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oks10

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I think your assumption is erroneous given his prior statements. It appears that others have taken it the exact same way I did.

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Reading back I think in this particular instance UrbanCowboy is right. Partly right at worst. The article he was talking about was regarding natural immunity not being discussed enough and seemed to be pointing at the "do you need the vaccine if you've got natural immunity" question. That said, the article also makes a sound point that if you tell people that they don't need the vaccine if they've gotten infected, there's dumbasses who haven't caught it yet a "reason" to not get the vax. Also, are there even any studies out that show how long you're covered for after catching covid? How would you know if you do in fact still have immunity and if you've lost it, then are you going to just risk catching it again or actually get the vax?
 
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It seems obvious to me.

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To hopefully add some nuance, there are potentially two related questions here at the heart of why people ask if natural immunity is stronger, though both have roughly the same conclusion.

1) is it better to get vaccinated or catch COVID naturally if I'm young and healthy?
Answer is a resounding, get vaccinated. It's safer and has more reliable immune response. Much of the data on immune response from catching COVID are among those with symptoms, sometimes even moderate or more. If you have very mild or asymptomatic responses, you may not achieve the level seen in many recent studies. So, higher risk and really unknown probability of benefits.

2) Do I need to get vaccinated after catching COVID since I probably had a robust immune response?
The answer is still get vaccinated. It still massively boosts your immune response even if you've had it before and even if you have detectable antibodies.

I'm not telling you anything new, but wanted to add the questions that seem to be behind the natural immunity vs vaccine questions.
 
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To hopefully add some nuance, there are potentially two related questions here at the heart of why people ask if natural immunity is stronger, though both have roughly the same conclusion.

1) is it better to get vaccinated or catch COVID naturally if I'm young and healthy?
Answer is a resounding, get vaccinated. It's safer and has more reliable immune response. Much of the data on immune response from catching COVID are among those with symptoms, sometimes even moderate or more. If you have very mild or asymptomatic responses, you may not achieve the level seen in many recent studies. So, higher risk and really unknown probability of benefits.

2) Do I need to get vaccinated after catching COVID since I probably had a robust immune response?
The answer is still get vaccinated. It still massively boosts your immune response even if you've had it before and even if you have detectable antibodies.

I'm not telling you anything new, but wanted to add the questions that seem to be behind the natural immunity vs vaccine questions.
Viruses that were eradicated by vaccines:

Polio
Tetanus
Influenza
Measles
Chickenpox

The list goes on and on.

Those viruses sadly killed countless people despite how long they existed without vaccines. Thankfully, vaccines wiped those out. Had vaccines not wiped them out, they'd still be present and killing countless people.

It amazes me the rather foolish arguments people try to use to justify not getting vaccine shots.
 

Boomer.....

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I had this question weeks ago but didn't get an answer.

Breakthrough Infections in Vaccinated People Less Likely to Cause ‘Long COVID’

Previously, the study found that 1 in 20 people in the U.K. who got COVID-19 battled Long COVID symptoms for eight weeks or more. But this work was done before vaccines were widely available.

While accounting for differences in age, sex, and other risk factors, the researchers found that fully vaccinated individuals who developed breakthrough infections were about half (49 percent) as likely as unvaccinated people to report symptoms of Long COVID Syndrome lasting at least four weeks after infection.
 

UrbanCowboy1

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To hopefully add some nuance, there are potentially two related questions here at the heart of why people ask if natural immunity is stronger, though both have roughly the same conclusion.

1) is it better to get vaccinated or catch COVID naturally if I'm young and healthy?
Answer is a resounding, get vaccinated. It's safer and has more reliable immune response. Much of the data on immune response from catching COVID are among those with symptoms, sometimes even moderate or more. If you have very mild or asymptomatic responses, you may not achieve the level seen in many recent studies. So, higher risk and really unknown probability of benefits.

2) Do I need to get vaccinated after catching COVID since I probably had a robust immune response?
The answer is still get vaccinated. It still massively boosts your immune response even if you've had it before and even if you have detectable antibodies.

I'm not telling you anything new, but wanted to add the questions that seem to be behind the natural immunity vs vaccine questions.
Thanks for actually answering the question without scorn! (Even though it wasn't my question, was just trying to clarify for @gogetumpoke )
 

UrbanCowboy1

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I had this question weeks ago but didn't get an answer.

Breakthrough Infections in Vaccinated People Less Likely to Cause ‘Long COVID’

Previously, the study found that 1 in 20 people in the U.K. who got COVID-19 battled Long COVID symptoms for eight weeks or more. But this work was done before vaccines were widely available.

While accounting for differences in age, sex, and other risk factors, the researchers found that fully vaccinated individuals who developed breakthrough infections were about half (49 percent) as likely as unvaccinated people to report symptoms of Long COVID Syndrome lasting at least four weeks after infection.
This is great news.
 

gogetumpoke

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I think your assumption is erroneous given his prior statements. It appears that others have taken it the exact same way I did.

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It's really a simple question. In light of Fauci's statement last week there seems to be a lot of confusion. Is natural immunity somehow less than that immunity gained from the vaccine. You might have missed it but Biden came out with some mandates last week that are going to prevent some folks that haven't been vaccinated to keep their job. To my knowledge no mention has been made of the immunity that a lot of people have from the virus itself. In other words, lets say I've got 150 employees....100 of them are fully vaccinated, 50 of them are unvaccinated but 35 of those 50 have had the virus and have natural immunity. How many people do I have to fire?. Are those 35 equally protected, less protected, or more protected. It's a serious question asked because it doesn't seem like anyone is addressing it and I'm sincerely interested if there has been some study that I've not heard of that says natural immunity is inferior. Nowhere, did I imply that someone should just wait to get Covid and get their immunity that way. I've stated on here several times that I'm fully vaccinated and I have encouraged all of my employees to do the same. Is natural immunity as good as the immunity gained from the vaccine? Yes or No will do.
 

gogetumpoke

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To hopefully add some nuance, there are potentially two related questions here at the heart of why people ask if natural immunity is stronger, though both have roughly the same conclusion.

1) is it better to get vaccinated or catch COVID naturally if I'm young and healthy?
Answer is a resounding, get vaccinated. It's safer and has more reliable immune response. Much of the data on immune response from catching COVID are among those with symptoms, sometimes even moderate or more. If you have very mild or asymptomatic responses, you may not achieve the level seen in many recent studies. So, higher risk and really unknown probability of benefits.

2) Do I need to get vaccinated after catching COVID since I probably had a robust immune response?
The answer is still get vaccinated. It still massively boosts your immune response even if you've had it before and even if you have detectable antibodies.

I'm not telling you anything new, but wanted to add the questions that seem to be behind the natural immunity vs vaccine questions.
Thank you for your civil response but my question is if natural immunity is better, the same, or worse than that gained from the vaccine. Simple question. No agenda. If it's at least as good there are going to be a lot of people fired with antibody levels that are just as good as those who have been vaccinated. Sounds like you're saying that if you have natural antibodies and you take the vaccine you have an added layer of protection and I'm certainly not arguing with that at all. I just thought that maybe the medical community had recently discovered that natural immunity was suddenly not any good and somehow that was construed as me not wanting people to get the vaccine. I've had this question for a while now and when the mandates were announced last week with no mention of natural immunity it peaked my interest again.
 

gogetumpoke

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Contract it naturally with no anti-bodies and have a high risk of hospitalization/death/long term health issues or get a shot so you if DO manage to contract the real thing you'll be fine? I honestly don't see why it's even a question...
Is the medical community at least in agreement that natural immunity is superior to the immunity from the vaccine? Not sure how you got there from that question. It's a serious question about immunity and nowhere, not one single place, did I say that people shouldn't get vaccinated. If the immunity is at least as good why should someone with natural immunity lose their job over someone who is vaccinated?
 

oks10

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Is the medical community at least in agreement that natural immunity is superior to the immunity from the vaccine? Not sure how you got there from that question. It's a serious question about immunity and nowhere, not one single place, did I say that people shouldn't get vaccinated. If the immunity is at least as good why should someone with natural immunity lose their job over someone who is vaccinated?
See my later post. I just misread you.
 

Rack

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Is the medical community at least in agreement that natural immunity is superior to the immunity from the vaccine? Not sure how you got there from that question. It's a serious question about immunity and nowhere, not one single place, did I say that people shouldn't get vaccinated. If the immunity is at least as good why should someone with natural immunity lose their job over someone who is vaccinated?
New CDC Study: Vaccination Offers Higher Protection than Previous COVID-19 Infection | CDC Online Newsroom | CDC
Why COVID-19 Vaccines Offer Better Protection Than Infection | Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health (jhu.edu)
Fact Check: Natural Immunity Is NOT Far Superior To COVID-19 Vaccines | Lead Stories
Fauci: Why COVID Vaccines Work Better Than Natural Infection Alone (businessinsider.com)
Unvaccinated more than twice as likely to get COVID again | Miami Herald
COVID-19 Vaccines: Myth Versus Fact | Johns Hopkins Medicine

conclusion...while having had covid provides some natural immunity...everyone still needs to get the vaccine, even if they have had covid. My Uncle after his hospitalization pre vaccine with covid. On advice of his doctor, got his vaccine LESS THAN 90 days post hospitalization...

I think you are looking for confirmation bias. The vaccine is needed and it's effective vs covid. Everyone needs to roll up their sleeves UNLESS they cannot take it for medical reasons.
 

gogetumpoke

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New CDC Study: Vaccination Offers Higher Protection than Previous COVID-19 Infection | CDC Online Newsroom | CDC
Why COVID-19 Vaccines Offer Better Protection Than Infection | Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health (jhu.edu)
Fact Check: Natural Immunity Is NOT Far Superior To COVID-19 Vaccines | Lead Stories
Fauci: Why COVID Vaccines Work Better Than Natural Infection Alone (businessinsider.com)
Unvaccinated more than twice as likely to get COVID again | Miami Herald
COVID-19 Vaccines: Myth Versus Fact | Johns Hopkins Medicine

conclusion...while having had covid provides some natural immunity...everyone still needs to get the vaccine, even if they have had covid. My Uncle after his hospitalization pre vaccine with covid. On advice of his doctor, got his vaccine LESS THAN 90 days post hospitalization...

I think you are looking for confirmation bias. The vaccine is needed and it's effective vs covid. Everyone needs to roll up their sleeves UNLESS they cannot take it for medical reasons.
How are you not getting this? My question is not should you get vaccinated whether or not you have had the virus. My question is....Is the medical community at least in agreement that natural immunity is superior to the immunity from the vaccine? To put it another way. Bob has never had covid but is fully vaccinated. George is not vaccinated but has had a confirmed case of covid and has tested positive for the antibodies. Is George's immunity as good as Bob's?
 

RxCowboy

Has no Rx for his orange obsession.
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To hopefully add some nuance, there are potentially two related questions here at the heart of why people ask if natural immunity is stronger, though both have roughly the same conclusion.

1) is it better to get vaccinated or catch COVID naturally if I'm young and healthy?
Answer is a resounding, get vaccinated. It's safer and has more reliable immune response. Much of the data on immune response from catching COVID are among those with symptoms, sometimes even moderate or more. If you have very mild or asymptomatic responses, you may not achieve the level seen in many recent studies. So, higher risk and really unknown probability of benefits.

2) Do I need to get vaccinated after catching COVID since I probably had a robust immune response?
The answer is still get vaccinated. It still massively boosts your immune response even if you've had it before and even if you have detectable antibodies.

I'm not telling you anything new, but wanted to add the questions that seem to be behind the natural immunity vs vaccine questions.
You used a scalpel, I used an axe.