Covid-19

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Jun 4, 2014
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I posted similar sentiments earlier, but I've always been under the impression this will just become the new flu shot. As strains mutate the vaccine effectiveness will wane, and immunity will be adjusted. I was blasted by some earlier in the year for comparing viruses that have nothing in common, only was trying to highlight the fact that some vaccines are one and done, and others are seasonal. Covid seems like it will be a seasonal event like the flu shot.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/15/pfi...cine-dose-likely-needed-within-12-months.html
 
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May 31, 2007
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It's flawed logic to think that the majority of our society, or even a big minority, would want to keep people "locked down" for long periods of time...that just makes no sense to me. I also don't think it's lying to them to tell them that if they get the vaccine "XYZ" will happen when you look at the "XYZ's" below...

"Promised XYZ's" that ARE and will happen ONLY if you are vaccinated...
1. Travel...international Travel is ALREADY open to ONLY vaccinated Americans without testing to enter several countries...including Croatia, Belize, Georgia, Malta, Ecuador, Guatemala, Iceland and several others...more countries will join suit in prompt order...for the vaccinated only. You can go to some of these countries if you are unvaccinated but it will require a negative test and sometimes a quarantine. Of course some counties like Mexico never required anything of Americans. One of the BIG HUGE MASSIVE things the USA needs to do NOW is remove the requirement for vaccinated citizens to test when they return from abroad. That one remains a huge stumbling block to the return of international travel and would likely increase American vaccination.
2. Virus...You won't get it even if exposed 97% of the time...and if you do you will not get a serious case requiring hospitalization nearly 100% of the time (see above post by @Boomer..... , btw, I wonder if my FALSE positive is part of this study and how many others are ).
3. Sports...Some football teams like the Bills are allowing ONLY vaccinated people to buy tickets and expect a full stadium...IF you are vaccinated you can attend a game...IF you aren't...xyz, you can't attend. Some NBA teams and others will likely follow suit...In fact I'm in favor of this IF only to get more people on board with the vaccine.
4. Visit in homes with one unvaccinated family without masking
5. Visit in homes with multiple vaccinated families without masking
6. No requirement for quarantine after traveling abroad for vaccinated persons.
7. Travel domestically at will without any CDC level recommendations.
8. Closer to home for readers of this board...OSU players are allowed to skip daily testing once they get the vaccine...a very nice XYZ...I'd be on that big time if I was a player...No more cotton swab up my nose every stinking day.

Anyway, just know that the XYZ list is going to get bigger soon...It's inevitable, especially as we really do want to incentivize people to get the vaccine for their own and our own good as a global community.
Oh there’s certainly nothing wrong with touting the things that are known to come with getting the vaccine. I’m talking about promising the unknowns such as no more masks or a general return to normalcy. I think those are the things most people crave and I don’t see any signs that those things are coming any time soon.
Once again, look at it from the perspective of the vaccine hesitant people, most of them are already doing the stuff you are dangling in front of them, some of it the CDC says wont be done until 2022 even if everyone is vaccinated, the other stiff will go away with time and low numbers
I have a handful of friends that had Covid and were either asymptotic or at worst it was described as the sniffles. Then they got vaccinated and it knocked them on their rear end for a few days each time after. That’s the people I would worry about (A) not being repeat customers and (B) not giving very good customer reviews to those who haven’t had it.

I’ll say this, I either haven’t had Covid or had it and it was not apparent. But I also got the Pfizer vaccine very early and had no ill effects whatsoever. So to me it was no harm no foul.
 

Rack

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Oct 13, 2004
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Oh there’s certainly nothing wrong with touting the things that are known to come with getting the vaccine. I’m talking about promising the unknowns such as no more masks or a general return to normalcy. I think those are the things most people crave and I don’t see any signs that those things are coming any time soon.

I have a handful of friends that had Covid and were either asymptotic or at worst it was described as the sniffles. Then they got vaccinated and it knocked them on their rear end for a few days each time after. That’s the people I would worry about (A) not being repeat customers and (B) not giving very good customer reviews to those who haven’t had it.

I’ll say this, I either haven’t had Covid or had it and it was not apparent. But I also got the Pfizer vaccine very early and had no ill effects whatsoever. So to me it was no harm no foul.
I’m not sure where you live but most of those things are already “here” in Oklahoma and most of the central USA. They will return to even states like California when they start to realize that they are behind the eight ball and losing companies hand over fist over lockdowns. Our mask mandate is set to expire end of April and it’s nearly totally due to the numbers of at risk people who have gotten the vaccine. I’m confident barring a crazy resurgence of hospitalizations and deaths the mandate will fall April 30th. This is what happens when we get the vaccine in mass...the deaths decline and so do hospitalizations..thus the mandates will also fall. Texas dropped theirs like a rock a month ago seeing the trend. Tulsa and OKC have waited and will likely drop them end of month. Btw I have more than a handful of friends who have had covid...one who died and one, my uncle, who nearly did. Maybe this was the result of Oklahoma not totally shutting down, maybe not, but it also contributed to what appears to be an early form of the dreaded “herd immunity” so I don't think you see the "fear" of opening fully here like you do in some states.
 
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May 31, 2007
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I’m not sure where you live but most of those things are already “here” in Oklahoma and most of the central USA. They will return to even states like California when they start to realize that they are behind the eight ball and losing companies hand over fist over lockdowns. Our mask mandate is set to expire end of April and it’s nearly totally due to the numbers of at risk people who have gotten the vaccine. I’m confident barring a crazy resurgence of hospitalizations and deaths the mandate will fall April 30th. This is what happens when we get the vaccine in mass...the deaths decline and so do hospitalizations..thus the mandates. Btw I have more than a handful of friends who have had covid...one who died and one who nearly did. Maybe this was the result of Oklahoma not totally shutting down, maybe not, but it also contributed to what appears to be an early form of the dreaded “herd immunity.”
You seem to be predicting the future on a lot of things by saying for example California “will” return to this or that. To me these are the things that are still unknown and I’m not ready to make those kind of predictions and state them as high likelihoods to people on the fence. That’s all I’m saying.
 

Rack

Legendary Cowboy
Oct 13, 2004
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You seem to be predicting the future on a lot of things by saying for example California “will” return to this or that. To me these are the things that are still unknown and I’m not ready to make those kind of predictions and state them as high likelihoods to people on the fence. That’s all I’m saying.
That's fine, I understand that. But, when our vaccine numbers increased here our covid numbers drastically went down...same in other nations that have been big on vaccine numbers. To me it's pretty cut and dry get the vaccine and the society will open...don't and it won't. Not only that, but don't in big enough numbers and it for sure won't because cases, deaths, and hospitalizations will all rise. This is, to me, why it's so important to get it and why I'm such a big advocate about it. I see those who don't as people who lack what seems to be simple understanding of what we are seeing here in Realville. I don't mean to be divisive, but those who don't get it are in fact holding on to a divide that is unhealthy not only for themselves, but for the "health" of our nation.

Btw, IF you have friends who want the vaccine and are frustrated about lockdowns and all that, tell them to hop in their car now and make the road trip to Oklahoma where the shots are free flowing and so is the whiskey indoors at the bars...restaurants are also wide open and have been for a long time...we are nearly 100% open since last summer with minor precautions in some places. We got serious about mask in December as the numbers went up and then we got serious about vaccines and ditching mask soon...we were a national leader in percentage vaccinated right out the gate and now we are looking very very good. We want to share our bounty! Come on!
 
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May 31, 2007
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That's fine, I understand that. But, when our vaccine numbers increased here our covid numbers drastically went down...same in other nations that have been big on vaccine numbers. To me it's pretty cut and dry get the vaccine and the society will open...don't and it won't. Not only that, but don't in big enough numbers and it for sure won't because cases, deaths and hospitalizations will all rise. This is, to me, why it's so important to get it and why I'm such a big advocate about it. I see those who don't as people who lack what seems to be simple understanding of what we are seeing here in Realville. I don't mean to be divisive, but those who don't get it are in fact holding on to a divide that is unhealthy not only for themselves, but for our health of our nation.
I think the problem in your “realville” is you assume that if X happens, it will automatically result in Y. I think that’s fine from a common sense perspective but that ignores who and what are the decision makers. Common sense doesn’t necessarily apply when we are already hearing that many of the things in place need to stay put until 2022. And at the point it may be time for another go round of vaxxing. For instance, how many things in place from post 9/11 are still around? I think politics is dictating these things much more than science or common sense which is why I’m not willing to say X automatically means Y. I’ll let you have the last word on this one.
 

Rack

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Oct 13, 2004
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I think the problem in your “realville” is you assume that if X happens, it will automatically result in Y. I think that’s fine from a common sense perspective but that ignores who and what are the decision makers. Common sense doesn’t necessarily apply when we are already hearing that many of the things in place need to stay put until 2022. And at the point it may be time for another go round of vaxxing. For instance, how many things in place from post 9/11 are still around? I think politics is dictating these things much more than science or common sense which is why I’m not willing to say X automatically means Y. I’ll let you have the last word on this one.
I understand that...but we can't shove common sense in their face if "we" don't have it and embrace the anti-vaxers. I absolutely LOVED it when the leaders in vaccines in the states where West Virginia, Oklahoma, and Alaska. It was basically us saying HEY we will take your bet and raise you a million on it. IF it was a bluff, we called it and we doubled down. This is why we are open and they have no recourse over us...we choose common sense when they were still trying to figure out how to politic their way out of killing old folks by putting covid patients in nursing homes, fining people who "jumped line," keeping businesses closed and fining those who opened, and otherwise trying to be "fair" in their "control" of vaccine distribution rather than getting shots in freaking arms and damn the torpedo's! Oklahoma and others have shown the way...pride is the only thing holding others back. California still has a ton of conservatives...we just need to fight the right battles and get guys elected that realize the way out of messes is to let free people work there way out of them...not force them into more messes.
 
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Jun 4, 2014
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Pretty predictable considering he is on record saying that the real money will be in the follow-up vaccinations.

Pfizer CEO says third Covid vaccine dose likely needed within 12 months
Lol crickets when I posted that earlier. Continued to go back and forth about "normalville" or whatever Rack was hypothesizing.

Either way, this will be the new flu shot. It won't be a single dose immunity. The only way people become comfortable, and restrictions start to really lift, is when the media stops pushing the Covid story. Now don't confuse this statement as me saying that the media created this crisis. Crisis is real, people are dying. But the only way people start to live normally, is when it stops being the #1 news story.
 
May 4, 2011
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WE kinda knew this all along...just like the flu vaccine they have been saying all along...but, I would think, once we build immunity it won't be as massive a need due to the hopeful natural decline in the virus.
I would guess pertussis (whooping cough) is going to be the better analogy. The challenge is getting ahead of variants, but that should be feasible. They already have evidence that targeting some the mutations in th SA and Brazil variants will provide strong reaction to the Wuhan original. So, we are looking at good preliminary indications that we'll have a vaccine that works against basically all major strains. Having that be widespread will reduce the risk of mutations and lengthen the duration between vaccines. So, it may be annual for another year or two and then probably every few years after that.
 
May 4, 2011
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Hmm, but there's a difference between working/school acceptance from a business servicing customers. I try to imagine a venue saying someone can't attend because they declined treatment for a disease and I don't see it going super well for them.
I'd defer to someone like @CowboyJD , but I'd have a hard time with the legal distinctions between these two when the argument is basically the same: we're denying you access to a public accommodation because we have a reasonable belief that you pose a threat to the safety of others. I would also assume the standard for that argument is higher for state-sponsored institutions (e.g., public schools and colleges) than private organizations that serve the public (e.g., sports teams or entertainment venues).
 

Rack

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Oct 13, 2004
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198 MILLION doses given in the USA as of now...3.35 Million per Day pace...look for the milestone of 200 MILLION doses given this evening or tomorrow am. I'm assuming here, but it seems this may be the biggest vaccine effort in terms of shear numbers in our history as a country and likely the world. As a result we are kicking Covid's as* and sending it to an early grave....Let's get on board, do our part, and end this virus! Do it for those who we have lost...do it for your family...do it for yourself, get the shot.
 

Rack

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https://aspe.hhs.gov/pdf-report/vaccine-hesitancy

This is an interesting map...if you use your geographic knowledge of the demographics in the areas that are hesitant you could come up with a few the following theories (and more not mentioned).

1. It's not just "redneck" republicans that are vaccine hesitant as is some of the narrative in some parts of media, although it is a disturbingly new trend in this vaccine cycle that may not have existed to this extent in the past or it just was uncovered.
2. It also appears people in very socially distant states, with their built in distances and independent spirit, in the Northwest interior don't want to be told what to do by the government whom they dispute with consistently over land and the uses of it. Wyoming has a small rural population and man is their vaccine hesitancy high.
3. Mississippi Valley and areas with high rural African American populations don't seem to trust vaccines, most likely due to experiences in the past like Tuskegee that have logically caused low faith in authorities.
4. On reservation land and in areas of high native American population vaccine hesitancy also appears to be high (Alaska is a striking example of this), likely due to similar reasons as with African American populations. Oklahoma's most hesitant counties are Cherokee, Comanche, Sequoyah, and Adair...
5. In Tennessee and Georgia we do appear to see some of the "redneck" factor as well as in a few other states out west (mentioned above as socially distant areas), these areas also have high Native American populations as well.
6. Surprisingly we don't see a noticeable hesitancy line along the southern boarder as I suspected we would. It least on this map a Hispanic hesitancy is hard for me to see. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but only it's not showing up specifically in the geography of this particular map.

My point is only that vaccine hesitancy comes in all shapes, sizes, political leanings, and colors...advocacy needs to be the same across all areas without politics and narrative. Peoples who feel marginalized to begin with have less trust in authority, this is only logical and these fears need to be dealt with logically and in love for all peoples without regard to politics and race. My hope is that the vaccine can be a uniting force and not a dividing one...certainly some are going to feel pressured because others like myself feel it's so important to our collective health not only as individuals but as a society to move past this divisive time. I'm pretty happy with the few ad's I've seen and heard here in Oklahoma on the vaccine as It think they target in a loving way the demographics that have these logical questions.
 
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May 4, 2011
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Charleston, SC
https://aspe.hhs.gov/pdf-report/vaccine-hesitancy

This is an interesting map...if you use your geographic knowledge of the demographics in the areas that are hesitant you could come up with a few the following theories (and more not mentioned).

1. It's not just "redneck" republicans that are vaccine hesitant as is some of the narrative in some parts of media, although it is a disturbingly new trend in this vaccine cycle that may not have existed to this extent in the past or it just was uncovered.
2. It also appears people in very socially distant states, with their built in distances and independent spirit, in the Northwest interior don't want to be told what to do by the government whom they dispute with consistently over land and the uses of it. Wyoming has a small rural population and man is their vaccine hesitancy high.
3. Mississippi Valley and areas with high rural African American populations don't seem to trust vaccines, most likely due to experiences in the past like Tuskegee that have logically caused low faith in authorities.
4. On reservation land and in areas of high native American population vaccine hesitancy also appears to be high (Alaska is a striking example of this), likely due to similar reasons as with African American populations. Oklahoma's most hesitant counties are Cherokee, Comanche, Sequoyah, and Adair...
5. In Tennessee and Georgia we do appear to see some of the "redneck" factor as well as in a few other states out west (mentioned above as socially distant areas), these areas also have high Native American populations as well.
6. Surprisingly we don't see a noticeable hesitancy line along the southern boarder as I suspected we would. It least on this map a Hispanic hesitancy is hard for me to see. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but only it's not showing up specifically in the geography of this particular map.

My point is only that vaccine hesitancy comes in all shapes, sizes, political leanings, and colors...advocacy needs to be the same across all areas without politics and narrative. Peoples who feel marginalized to begin with have less trust in authority, this is only logical and these fears need to be dealt with logically and in love for all peoples without regard to politics and race. My hope is that the vaccine can be a uniting force and not a dividing one...certainly some are going to feel pressured because others like myself feel it's so important to our collective healthy not only as individuals but as a society to move past this divisive time. I'm pretty happy with the few ad's I've seen and heard here in Oklahoma on the vaccine as It think they target in a loving way the demographics that have these logical questions.
A lot of my work has flipped to focusing on this exact issue and you got a lot right, but there are a few amendments I'd offer. Rural areas with primarily White residents do clearly stand out here, with the exception of the midwest and northeast. This fits national data about rural conservative Whites being hesitant. I'd frame this more around trust in government and medical systems. Rural conservatives on average have very little trust in the government. Black and Native populations have little trust in both government and medical systems, though Tuskegee plays a small role. Ongoing negative experiences with medical care seem to play a larger role.

Also, to explain a bit more about about Latino/Hispanic hesitancy, these tools always do a mediocre job of capturing immigrants. That's a huge deal in this case because they're the most hesitant, but even then, it's not as bad as for rural conservatives or Black/African Americans. I wouldn't have expected it to show up in this kind of geographic data.
 

TheMonkey

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Sep 16, 2004
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https://aspe.hhs.gov/pdf-report/vaccine-hesitancy

This is an interesting map...if you use your geographic knowledge of the demographics in the areas that are hesitant you could come up with a few the following theories (and more not mentioned).

1. It's not just "redneck" republicans that are vaccine hesitant as is some of the narrative in some parts of media, although it is a disturbingly new trend in this vaccine cycle that may not have existed to this extent in the past or it just was uncovered.
2. It also appears people in very socially distant states, with their built in distances and independent spirit, in the Northwest interior don't want to be told what to do by the government whom they dispute with consistently over land and the uses of it. Wyoming has a small rural population and man is their vaccine hesitancy high.
3. Mississippi Valley and areas with high rural African American populations don't seem to trust vaccines, most likely due to experiences in the past like Tuskegee that have logically caused low faith in authorities.
4. On reservation land and in areas of high native American population vaccine hesitancy also appears to be high (Alaska is a striking example of this), likely due to similar reasons as with African American populations. Oklahoma's most hesitant counties are Cherokee, Comanche, Sequoyah, and Adair...
5. In Tennessee and Georgia we do appear to see some of the "redneck" factor as well as in a few other states out west (mentioned above as socially distant areas), these areas also have high Native American populations as well.
6. Surprisingly we don't see a noticeable hesitancy line along the southern boarder as I suspected we would. It least on this map a Hispanic hesitancy is hard for me to see. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but only it's not showing up specifically in the geography of this particular map.

My point is only that vaccine hesitancy comes in all shapes, sizes, political leanings, and colors...advocacy needs to be the same across all areas without politics and narrative. Peoples who feel marginalized to begin with have less trust in authority, this is only logical and these fears need to be dealt with logically and in love for all peoples without regard to politics and race. My hope is that the vaccine can be a uniting force and not a dividing one...certainly some are going to feel pressured because others like myself feel it's so important to our collective health not only as individuals but as a society to move past this divisive time. I'm pretty happy with the few ad's I've seen and heard here in Oklahoma on the vaccine as It think they target in a loving way the demographics that have these logical questions.
Good grief Wyoming and North Dakota.