Covid-19

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wrenhal

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Aug 11, 2011
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https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMms2101220
Writing before the pandemic, Larson observed that “Vaccine reluctance and refusal are not issues that can be addressed by merely changing the message or giving ‘more’ or ‘better’ information.”

...dismissing their concerns often leaves them seeking someone to validate them. I suspect that’s one reason why correcting misinformation often falls short. Some people, for instance, may truly believe that vaccines cause autism. But for others, this ostensible fear may mask less easily expressed needs such as maintaining one’s identity, belonging to a group, or simply being heard.
...
Although the scientific community’s obligation will always begin with championing truth, the pandemic has shown that society’s health also depends on understanding why so many people reject it. While some trust scientific experts, Larson notes that others seek “truth” elsewhere — their experiences, perhaps, or “heard truths” from their social networks. The pandemic, then, has reminded Larson why getting the public to understand science may be insufficient.Maybe, she suggests, it’s also time for science to understand the public.
The best agent for change for an addict is often an ex-addict...they can speak to the addiction and it's attraction based on their past experience. I understand what you are saying, but those addicts also understand blunt reality and truth when it comes from one of their own...not psychologist nor scientist whom they don't believe or agree with on a myriad of subjects anyway and have no shared reality. I have a ton of friends who aren't getting the vaccine for various reasons, despite what we have seen in our church with covid. I understand these reasons, but I also know they are misguided based on the past year we have all experienced. In most of my communications with these people I'm using logic, reason, Christian creation science, and that doctors, scientist, and vaccines are here on Earth by Gods will in order to help to provide healing and the spread of the Gospel. How can we do international mission work if we cannot travel? That is how you reach people who are vaccine reluctant in my sphere. You convince them that it's God's will, not an agent of Evil and you get them involved in hosting vaccinations rather than contributing to the misinformation about them. The problem comes because so many in my sphere see the whole covid thing and the way it was handled, politically, as an agent for evil and division. Convincing them to get the vaccine based on doing what is right for others and how it potentially expands the Gospel is the best tact for them. I agree with you that I shouldn't get too preachy with them, especially in person where most of the convincing actually happens...I want to ask my pastor to advocate for vaccines, as he could have massive impact, but the congregation is so divided on the subject and I could see his hesitancy and assume he is. Maybe I could speak to that group of friends who are doctors and see if they have/will ask...
Or the worst thing for an ex-addict could be an addict.

Lol

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Binman4OSU

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Stupid about AGW!!
I thought I read early on that COVID in India was out of control and the government simply didn't have the capacity to test many people. So the cases and deaths were artificially low because of them not being reported (ie. China). This was around the time when the government instantly shut down grocery stores and public transportation.
in Summer 2020 India was using the Gold standard in Testing with 60% of their testing and tracing methods done via PCR testing. However, a shortage of these left Indian states (who independently control their own health codes) to begin to switch to a Rapid testing method that was proven to be incorrect 50% of the time.

In Aug, Sept, and Oct 2020 India was PCR testing and tracing 400k to 500k per month. However, as the PCR test supplies ran out, their PCR testing and tracing program by the end of Nov was less than 100K per month.

as of this month they have the PCR testing back on track and 2 days ago had the most COVID test performed in a single day...1.5 MILLION test.

Given the lack of testing they had over several months ending 2020, and now that testing is back at full strength I think they are finally getting their first realistic view now of how bad it has gotten since the start of the Fall months when they last had reliable testing data.
 

oks10

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That shouldn't be a teachers responsibility. If any lower than a district policy, it should be a school policy set by the principal. It shouldn't be a "classroom policy".
I agree. I have tremendous respect for Bixby's Superintendent, Rob Miller. I have known him personally for years and he definitely is someone that is pro-student and someone that is in it for the right reasons.

I applaud that he is giving his teachers authority, but masks for students should be a location wise decision.
 

UrbanCowboy1

Some cowboys gots smarts real good like me.
Aug 8, 2006
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oks10

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I agree. I have tremendous respect for Bixby's Superintendent, Rob Miller. I have known him personally for years and he definitely is someone that is pro-student and someone that is in it for the right reasons.

I applaud that he is giving his teachers authority, but masks for students should be a location wise decision.
And the teachers can even collectively decide whether they want them or not, but that should be a policy with the Principal's name attached. Should be no different than a dress code.
 
Jul 25, 2018
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Boulder, CO
I play frisbee golf at a park less than a mile from my house. A park that abuts an Elementary school on one side, baseball and soccer fields on another, and a YMCA on a third side. The park also houses a community center where kids do after school stuff, families get meals, etc... This is a large park, with any number of people there at all hours.

There is also a creek which runs through this park, and the creek has a pedestrian bridge. The pedestrian bridge is barricaded off, with COVID social distancing signs plastered all over the barricade.

My point? We still have some idiot with the city who apparently thinks the pedestrian bridge poses some viable threat to defeating COVID. Yes, a bridge, in the middle of a park full of people.:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

The 'clingers' cannot go away soon enough.
 

oks10

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I play frisbee golf at a park less than a mile from my house. A park that abuts an Elementary school on one side, baseball and soccer fields on another, and a YMCA on a third side. The park also houses a community center where kids do after school stuff, families get meals, etc... This is a large park, with any number of people there at all hours.

There is also a creek which runs through this park, and the creek has a pedestrian bridge. The pedestrian bridge is barricaded off, with COVID social distancing signs plastered all over the barricade.

My point? We still have some idiot with the city who apparently thinks the pedestrian bridge poses some viable threat to defeating COVID. Yes, a bridge, in the middle of a park full of people.:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

The 'clingers' cannot go away soon enough.
OR... Now this might sound crazy... But ORRR they closed it off back when rates were high bc it's a choke point (I'm assuming with it being a pedestrian bridge that it's not incredibly wide) that requires people break within the 6ft bubble to pass each other and either they think it's still not needing to be open yet or they've forgotten about it?? (My bet is it's been forgotten in which case you could reach out to the city and ask when it will be open again.)
 
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Birry

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But those hesitant are also ones not taking precautions and being cautious, right (that's what some of the media is saying)? Wouldn't that mean they'd get it and thus be part of the 85%?

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In our case, that's false. I was one of the first to start working full time from home, and have followed all guidelines to this point with the express intent of doing my part to protect whoever was at risk. My decisions for me and my my family have always been to take it week by week and see what the data compels us to do. At this point, #'s are plummeting, the at-risk populations have full access to a nearly 100% effective antidote, we are 99.9% sure we had the virus in Dec 2020, and we now feel less compelled to get the vaccine for all the above reasons.
 

Birry

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The 70% number would assume that an additional portion of the population (roughly half of those unvaccinated) have some kind of immunity from prior exposure. Given the r0 of this thing, we need about 85% of the population with some kind of immunity in order to suppress the virus. There's 0 chance that happens, at least in state like Oklahoma and Texas. There's too much vaccine hesitancy.
You don't think that a 40-60% vaccinated population plus those with immunity due to already contracting the virus could reach 85%+? I thought asymptomatic cases far exceeded symptomatic ones, so there is a high likelihood that a huge % already has immunity...?
 
May 4, 2011
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You don't think that a 40-60% vaccinated population plus those with immunity due to already contracting the virus could reach 85%+? I thought asymptomatic cases far exceeded symptomatic ones, so there is a high likelihood that a huge % already has immunity...?
Also included in my math. What I wrote assumes 50% of the unvaccinated population has some immunity. That's about 5 times the current rate of confirmed cases. That's on the higher side of estimates, but not by much.

We won't get close to heard immunity and the associated full suppression with only 50% of the population vaccinated. With that rate, it will become more like the flu and a source of thousands of deaths per year. I don't like that notion, but I accept that it's reality for us, at least for what seems to be in our future for the next couple years.
 

Rack

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In our case, that's false. I was one of the first to start working full time from home, and have followed all guidelines to this point with the express intent of doing my part to protect whoever was at risk. My decisions for me and my my family have always been to take it week by week and see what the data compels us to do. At this point, #'s are plummeting, the at-risk populations have full access to a nearly 100% effective antidote, we are 99.9% sure we had the virus in Dec 2020, and we now feel less compelled to get the vaccine for all the above reasons.
You might check your antibodies...Plus, "at risk populations" are in every demographic, albeit the numbers are lower for the younger population (however I did share the story of my 28 year old very healthy friend who was on a vent and we thought we would lose). Additionally, both my spouse and I felt for sure we had covid in February 2020 and we either didn't, or failed to retain the antibodies. I had my blood checked for them prior to getting my first dose of vaccine in December 2020 and, nope, none. You may very well have had covid, but without an antibody check you really shouldn't assume. As far as being less compelled, you should understand that if you wish to travel internationally in the next year or so, the vaccine is going to be required by many nations if not our own at some point and being vaccinated already gets you to the front of the line without any testing or quarantine in several countries... Airlines and Cruise lines are seeking more ability to get back open for international travel and one way is that they are compelling the federal government to open up to at least fully vaccinated people first. Additionally it's only a matter of time before long term care and inpatient facilities like hospitals will allow visitors who have the vaccine. Likely is already happening at some locations. The more the numbers of vaccinated people rise, the quicker we can open...everything. Also, if you and your spouse gets the vaccine it should give you a level of certainty of the extra protection that others without it don't have, you won't have to be concerned anymore about visiting with unvaccinated or vaccinated people without a mask in homes or anywhere else. Good job following all the guidelines, I just think it would be wise to check your antibodies to at least to firm up your level of certainty about your immunity. It's up to you, but that is what I did and would do in your situation. Just think about the possibilities you may open up with full vaccination or at least a high level antibody test...especially if you can convince others to also get the vaccine once you find out. Once we get nearly full participation we can all stop with the mask wearing, stop social distancing, go to full on church services, have visitors in patients rooms in hospitals, have full size weddings and funerals, and basically go back to pre pandemic life. All of that really does depend on as many getting the vaccine as can. The USA has given 211 MILLION doses of the vaccine. However, only 39% of us have had one shot and 25% are fully vaccinated. We need to get full participation and instead the daily participation rate is falling. This is when the rubber meets the road and we determine as a nation how this is going to finish. It's up to us to lead on ending the virus and the biggest by far ability we have to lead in fighting the virus here and around the world is to get the vaccine.
 

Rack

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I play frisbee golf at a park less than a mile from my house. A park that abuts an Elementary school on one side, baseball and soccer fields on another, and a YMCA on a third side. The park also houses a community center where kids do after school stuff, families get meals, etc... This is a large park, with any number of people there at all hours.

There is also a creek which runs through this park, and the creek has a pedestrian bridge. The pedestrian bridge is barricaded off, with COVID social distancing signs plastered all over the barricade.

My point? We still have some idiot with the city who apparently thinks the pedestrian bridge poses some viable threat to defeating COVID. Yes, a bridge, in the middle of a park full of people.:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

The 'clingers' cannot go away soon enough.
I agree that the way some parks and outdoors spaces were treated was poor logic. In New Mexico they closed all state parks and left the federal forest ones open. This caused the Federal forest parks to be packed with people while the state parks were empty. Every other parking space in Santa Fe was closed to create, what, car social distancing? I know their intentions where likely good, but authorities on local levels made some really stupid logic defying decisions in the mitigation efforts on this thing.

Btw, contact your local officials and let them know how stupid it is to restrict flow of traffic which actually causes congregation in certain areas and restricts it from the other side of the bridge.

Also, you can personally get rid of 'clingers' by getting your vaccine and convincing as many others as possible to do the same...Especially any friends who are vaccine hesitant. Not sure you have gotten it yet, but it would be a great idea if not...
 

Binman4OSU

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In an interview with Fox News’ Sean Hannity Monday night, Trump said he had been asked to do a public service announcement because a lot of his supporters “don’t want to take the vaccine.”
Data shows Republicans have the highest rate of vaccine skepticism of any major demographic group in the U.S., with 45% stating they do not plan on getting inoculated in a recent Quinnipiac survey.
Trump—who previously expressed skepticism about vaccines in general—said he doesn’t know why Republicans are hesitant to get inoculated, saying “I don’t know what that is exactly.”
“I encourage people to take it, I do,” Trump said of Covid-19 vaccines, adding that he was immunized.
Trump and former First Lady Melania Trump received the vaccine in January behind closed doors, unlike Joe Biden and other former presidents.

Blasting the Johnson & Johnson vaccine pause as “stupid,” Trump again pushed an unfounded conspiracy theory that U.S. health agencies halted the rollout to benefit Pfizer, claiming the pharmaceutical company was “in with the FDA.”
 

Binman4OSU

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The longer we let the virus to stay around by not getting everyone vaccianated the more variants we will see.
we too stupid about it and we will end up with Super Covid that doesn't respond to any antibodies. We are at war, and this enemy is very good at changing itself to overcome our defenses. We give it enough time and opportunity and it will eventually find a way to change to where we have no defense.

Virus is like the damn Borg from Star Trek