Cowboys (6-2) Drops game against Wichita State Shockers. Next Up Big 12/Big East Challenge against Xavier on SUNDAY

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edmondcowboy

Federal Marshal
Sep 24, 2008
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Ice needs to play way less. He screws it up for everyone. He misses free throws. He turns it over. He misses lay ups all down the stretch. And he gives everyone on the court no space. He's in, just play a zone. Everyone will get better with him off the floor. Boynton loves him. Apparently he has forgotten Ice's freshman and sophomore year when he was a featured player. And then as a junior gets hurt, and we go on a run to end the season without him.

Kalib and MAM play off each other well. Cisse and MAM on the court at the same time is not good. But MAM struggles when Ice is on the floor as well (no space again).

Boynton may let this season go to hell on the Ice sword. Boynton needs to watch the film without Ice and Cade from last year. Watch the movement and the spacing. You can't win grinders with Ice. He has to score in transition. He cannot score or make plays in the half court. AA and Bryce W are the only guys who can make plays in the half court in the backcourt. Bryce T can have a good floor game with those two I believe. So can Walker.

I wouldn't cut all Ice's minutes, but they would be SEVERELY reduced at this point. The proof is with the start we are having. We are losing the momentum from last year.

I think our starters should be
AA, Bryce W, Bryce T, MAM, Kalib
Walker, Keylan, Smith/Cisse,

I would actually like to see this without Ice. Ice seems like a great kid, but we have never been a good team with him playing all these minutes.
Nailed it. You can’t run your team with a guy you don’t even have to guard.


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Dec 9, 2013
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Give him all of Cisse’s minutes and I wonder what it looks like. And I’m actually a Cissé supporter because of his defense.

to be fair to all our big men, they work their butts off down there and routinely get positions and our guards don’t feed them. It is what it is.
Watch Cisse’s footwork on D. He doesn’t communicate the screen. He doesn’t prevent the screen. He doesn’t hedge off the top. His first 2 steps are to the rim.
 
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Oct 1, 2006
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I'd really like to see what goes on at our practices. Do the coaches just wheel a rack of balls out, then go to Eskimo Joes to drink beer while the players do whatever they want? Because we sure play like it.
 
Dec 9, 2013
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Ice needs to play way less. He screws it up for everyone. He misses free throws. He turns it over. He misses lay ups all down the stretch. And he gives everyone on the court no space. He's in, just play a zone. Everyone will get better with him off the floor. Boynton loves him. Apparently he has forgotten Ice's freshman and sophomore year when he was a featured player. And then as a junior gets hurt, and we go on a run to end the season without him.

Kalib and MAM play off each other well. Cisse and MAM on the court at the same time is not good. But MAM struggles when Ice is on the floor as well (no space again).

Boynton may let this season go to hell on the Ice sword. Boynton needs to watch the film without Ice and Cade from last year. Watch the movement and the spacing. You can't win grinders with Ice. He has to score in transition. He cannot score or make plays in the half court. AA and Bryce W are the only guys who can make plays in the half court in the backcourt. Bryce T can have a good floor game with those two I believe. So can Walker.

I wouldn't cut all Ice's minutes, but they would be SEVERELY reduced at this point. The proof is with the start we are having. We are losing the momentum from last year.

I think our starters should be
AA, Bryce W, Bryce T, MAM, Kalib
Walker, Keylan, Smith/Cisse,

I would actually like to see this without Ice. Ice seems like a great kid, but we have never been a good team with him playing all these minutes.
I agree w everything you just posted except I would swap out walker and keylan for Williams and MAM.

And Williams would be on a short leash. When he’s dialed in he’s good but when he’s not he really hurts you. Makes bad passes and doesn’t run sets.

I get a bad feeling that we are not only sacrificing this year with him spreading minutes but am afraid players will get disenfranchised and transfer. Walker, the Boone’s and Smith are all sacrificing minutes this year to players they shouldn’t.
 
May 22, 2019
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It’s frustrating and really kind of sad that this is the most athletic talented roster that we’ve maybe ever had, defensively solid and has everything you would want except a legitimate 3 pt shooter. This team is just one Keaton Page, Phil Forte or Randy Rutherford away from being elite. But we won’t beat the good teams with the long range bricklayers we’ve got right now. Honestly our best chances of beating good teams is just to abandon the three and take the ball to the basket and shoot high percentage short range jumpers. Shooting threes with this team and missing 80-90% of them will do nothing but lose games for us!
We have to recruit and dead eye shooter before next year. I mean a kid that just shoots the 3 ball. Just expand the defense. We get to the rim and kick out wide open to someone that shoots 19%from 3. Can we just get a kid that just lights it up. I remember some guys in the past forte, page, even dizzy
 
Aug 13, 2005
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Seem all those scrimmages with WSU in Emporia during summer made this game seem like a scrimmage. I would have Anderson play point guard and let Ice come in off the bench.
 
Dec 9, 2013
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People say this every year but by the end of the year we start rolling. Lots of new faces and a lot of moving parts. It just takes time.
Look at his conference record and avg placement. I’m afraid Cade covered up a lot of deficiencies last year.

I don’t care how you color it we are not a good team or well coached. And it’s the same thing we’ve seen for the last 4 years.

Bad turnovers. Bad shots. Poor use of timeouts. Unexplainable rotations. Bad shooting including free throws.

I will say we seem to play hard.
 
Sep 23, 2010
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37% FG
28% 3pt
47% FT
21 turnovers
That's pretty inept on offense

Ice plays 36min. Maybe the criticism of Ice is too much. He went 1-5 FG, 1-4 FT, 3ast, 2turnovers. But I just believe we are going to keep seeing these zones that bog us down because he's on the floor so much. I can't just point at a stat, but when I watch the game. There is no space for guys who avg. 8-10ppg a year ago in B Williams, MAM and Walker. And AA who avg 13-14ppg. The offense is different with him out there, and he's out there almost the whole game. And don't give me the Cade references. We were pretty good on O last year when Cade was off the floor.

AA 6 turnovers and B Thompson with 4 turnovers. But, we did jack up their confidence by basically not playing them hardly in the game before.

Walker, Smith, Williams were -20, -22, -18 in their 9-11min of playing time. That stuck out on the box score. Plus/minus is not always the best thing to look at but clearly Wichita made big runs with them in there. Those 3 were not responsible for the debacle down the stretch (1-12FG).

And Kalib Boone logs less than 10min.
 
Sep 23, 2010
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People say this every year but by the end of the year we start rolling. Lots of new faces and a lot of moving parts. It just takes time.
I'm not ready to roll on Boynton. But man, it feels like he holds onto certain guys until it becomes painfully obvious he needs to make a change. I mean, he was starting and playing Donovan Williams at the start of this season. He put Woody Newton and Williams in with like 6min in a close game with Oakland. He jekyl and Hyde's the players minutes (besides Ice) trying to keep guys happy when it has the opposite effect and kills their confidence.
 
Jun 14, 2011
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Interesting notes on the stat changes over the past few games:
1. Great news, our 3-point percentage has actually gone up 0.1% (ugh).
2. This is the worst 3-point shooting team we have had in 20+ years.
3. FT percentage dropped a little bit.
4. Turn-overs worse 16.3 up from 16.1 per game.
5. Blocks up to almost 7 per game, impressive.
Overall, the metrics show we are a very solid defensive team. However, as anyone with eyes can see, the turnovers, FT shooting, and three point shooting are hot garbage.
Stats as of 120221.JPG
 
Sep 23, 2010
2,106
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Interesting notes on the stat changes over the past few games:
1. Great news, our 3-point percentage has actually gone up 0.1% (ugh).
2. This is the worst 3-point shooting team we have had in 20+ years.
3. FT percentage dropped a little bit.
4. Turn-overs worse 16.3 up from 16.1 per game.
5. Blocks up to almost 7 per game, impressive.
Overall, the metrics show we are a very solid defensive team. However, as anyone with eyes can see, the turnovers, FT shooting, and three point shooting are hot garbage.
View attachment 93596
If you put us in a half court game and we can't score in transition, we struggle mightily on offense. We have to get better in half court offense. We have to get better against the zone, although I'm not sure how much we'll see zone in conference play. But we have to be better in shooting and ballhandling to improve in the half court. Maybe some change in schemes can help our guys with this.
 
Jun 14, 2011
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If you put us in a half court game and we can't score in transition, we struggle mightily on offense. We have to get better in half court offense. We have to get better against the zone, although I'm not sure how much we'll see zone in conference play. But we have to be better in shooting and ballhandling to improve in the half court. Maybe some change in schemes can help our guys with this.
It is really interesting to me that Boynton was an assistant to Underoo for so long and was able to see and theoretically be involved in the offense during that time. Then, knowing how efficient those teams were on offense (yes, personnel plays into that), he does not try to duplicate it to the maximum possible extent. Considering how consistently terrible we have been in the half court, I'm at a loss.
 
Sep 23, 2010
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Another crazy stat. Ricky Council was a +30 in plus/minus in 29minutes. We outscored WSU by 21 when he was out of the game.
 
Mar 27, 2008
1,721
1,252
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37% FG
28% 3pt
47% FT
21 turnovers
That's pretty inept on offense

Ice plays 36min. Maybe the criticism of Ice is too much. He went 1-5 FG, 1-4 FT, 3ast, 2turnovers. But I just believe we are going to keep seeing these zones that bog us down because he's on the floor so much. I can't just point at a stat, but when I watch the game. There is no space for guys who avg. 8-10ppg a year ago in B Williams, MAM and Walker. And AA who avg 13-14ppg. The offense is different with him out there, and he's out there almost the whole game. And don't give me the Cade references. We were pretty good on O last year when Cade was off the floor.

AA 6 turnovers and B Thompson with 4 turnovers. But, we did jack up their confidence by basically not playing them hardly in the game before.

Walker, Smith, Williams were -20, -22, -18 in their 9-11min of playing time. That stuck out on the box score. Plus/minus is not always the best thing to look at but clearly Wichita made big runs with them in there. Those 3 were not responsible for the debacle down the stretch (1-12FG).

And Kalib Boone logs less than 10min.
The only thing I can think of is Boynton plays him so much because he is a senior who has stuck with him through everything. It is the only reason I can think of.
 

OkstateKerr

Federal Marshal
Jan 13, 2005
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The only thing I can think of is Boynton plays him so much because he is a senior who has stuck with him through everything. It is the only reason I can think of.
I think you hope that he gets back to how he was playing before he got mono a few years ago. Dude was a force. He has just never been the same dude since.
 

CowboyHoopsPride

Territorial Marshal
Feb 18, 2009
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I think you hope that he gets back to how he was playing before he got mono a few years ago. Dude was a force. He has just never been the same dude since.
Was he really a force? Still can't shoot. Plays very out of control on the break. Gets as many charge calls as he does assists under the bucket. When we use him as a mismatch, especially against the zones I love it. If he's our primary ball handler he's not nearly as effective. Run down the floor, pass it off and go stand in the corner.