Did we just lose a home baseball series to Houston?

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Ptak'sNewspaper

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#62
The bottom line is we need ORANGE BLOOD back in the head coaching position. We are a school with a rich tradition and in order to return to that level we need to go back to what got us there. OSU and an athletic director did not build our program....Gary Ward, Tom Holiday, and the players did. FA has not embraced the tradition that built this program since he stepped foot on campus. It is likely because of a control issue where he believes that he needs his own system. Well, his own system is not good enough. His ideas on what it takes to win are different than those that succeeded before him. If what he was doing had worked, then we would all be happy, but they have not. I do not agree at all with measuing his success with NCAA's. That is saying we are in the top 50 those years we get there. He needs to be measured based on his success in the conference and are we challenging for championships. Being an all conference player and member of what was our glory years I get sick thinking about where we should be and how far we have dropped. If FA does not want to embrace those that made the job he took a good one, then why should the school or alumni support him? As a father and provider for my family I don't like the idea of firing anyone, however it is a time for a change in Stillwater. It is time to bring back on of our own to run the show. OSU was successful wit facilities that did not match their competitions back in the 80's and 90's because they knew how to play and got it done. Baseball recruits are different. A simply upgrade to the facilities is enough as long as the field is in great shape and that has never been an issue with Allie P. We need to generate interest with one of OSU's own coming in to coach and change the thinking around here. Let Holder and everyone else think of how to get butts in the seats. If there is an x-player that embraces what Ward built in charge you will be amazed how fast the quality of the team changes......


I don't disagree with your thinking here.

Ever since Anderson took over, he has tried to change the style of play at OSU, which is fine, if it works. It has not worked. Our mediocre Anderson teams have looked like a hybrid of OSU and Texas in style. That has not worked out. We can't seem to bring in the same quality of pitching that Texas and Texas A&M do, so the style fails. The teams under Anderson that have been good looked more like vintage OSU teams, to tell you the truth. In 06, 07, and 08 those teams could knock the ball around the park with the best of them. I think we led the league those years in HR's and Double, if I'm not mistaken. So, those teams were built more like vintage OSU teams, hitting the ball around the park with lots of power. But the OSU teams that have seemed to have a little better ERA's with much weaker hitting numbers have not had success.

As far as firing a coach, I have no freaking clue what is the big deal. Anderson has been making very good money at OSU for 9 years now (around $500,000 a year is what I heard, not sure if true). If he hasn't been saving for a rainy day, then he's a moron. Same thing with Ford, people act like it's a sin to fire a coach when he's been making $2 million a year. Absolutely crazy how people can feel sorry for coaches who are making that much money. Just another example of how America has become sissified...
 

superpoke

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#64
So, you're saying that we're exactly like OU now? I absolutely refuse to accept that.
It is unfortunately the truth, and it's what some have been working toward for over 40 years - ever since Mr. Iba retired. Now they just have Boone's money to make it happen rather than having to cheat, but they've gotten things back to how they want them - and those guys don't care about anything but football. Welcome back to the '70s.
 

Carneyman14

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#65
I don't disagree with your thinking here.

Ever since Anderson took over, he has tried to change the style of play at OSU, which is fine, if it works. It has not worked. Our mediocre Anderson teams have looked like a hybrid of OSU and Texas in style. That has not worked out. We can't seem to bring in the same quality of pitching that Texas and Texas A&M do, so the style fails. The teams under Anderson that have been good looked more like vintage OSU teams, to tell you the truth. In 06, 07, and 08 those teams could knock the ball around the park with the best of them. I think we led the league those years in HR's and Double, if I'm not mistaken. So, those teams were built more like vintage OSU teams, hitting the ball around the park with lots of power. But the OSU teams that have seemed to have a little better ERA's with much weaker hitting numbers have not had success.

As far as firing a coach, I have no freaking clue what is the big deal. Anderson has been making very good money at OSU for 9 years now (around $500,000 a year is what I heard, not sure if true). If he hasn't been saving for a rainy day, then he's a moron. Same thing with Ford, people act like it's a sin to fire a coach when he's been making $2 million a year. Absolutely crazy how people can feel sorry for coaches who are making that much money. Just another example of how America has become sissified...
A lot of that has to do with the new bats. But I get your point. Compared to A&M Texas and the SEC schools our power is still below them, when we should be up there with them for the "vintage" style of play
 

Ptak'sNewspaper

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#66
It is unfortunately the truth, and it's what some have been working toward for over 40 years - ever since Mr. Iba retired. Now they just have Boone's money to make it happen rather than having to cheat, but they've gotten things back to how they want them - and those guys don't care about anything but football. Welcome back to the '70s.

So, I take it you despise Holder and Boone.
 

superpoke

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#67
So, I take it you despise Holder and Boone.
Didn't say that. What I'm saying is that there have been people trying to make OSU into OU for 40 years. They only care about football, because that's what their OU friends care about and give them crap about when OU wins. The other stuff doesn't matter to them.

I am also one that is not prepared to sacrifice everything at the altar of football...but I also know that I'm very likely in the minority of OSU fans today.
 

superpoke

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#68
The bottom line is we need ORANGE BLOOD back in the head coaching position. We are a school with a rich tradition and in order to return to that level we need to go back to what got us there. OSU and an athletic director did not build our program....Gary Ward, Tom Holiday, and the players did. FA has not embraced the tradition that built this program since he stepped foot on campus. It is likely because of a control issue where he believes that he needs his own system. Well, his own system is not good enough. His ideas on what it takes to win are different than those that succeeded before him. If what he was doing had worked, then we would all be happy, but they have not. I do not agree at all with measuing his success with NCAA's. That is saying we are in the top 50 those years we get there. He needs to be measured based on his success in the conference and are we challenging for championships. Being an all conference player and member of what was our glory years I get sick thinking about where we should be and how far we have dropped. If FA does not want to embrace those that made the job he took a good one, then why should the school or alumni support him? As a father and provider for my family I don't like the idea of firing anyone, however it is a time for a change in Stillwater. It is time to bring back on of our own to run the show. OSU was successful wit facilities that did not match their competitions back in the 80's and 90's because they knew how to play and got it done. Baseball recruits are different. A simply upgrade to the facilities is enough as long as the field is in great shape and that has never been an issue with Allie P. We need to generate interest with one of OSU's own coming in to coach and change the thinking around here. Let Holder and everyone else think of how to get butts in the seats. If there is an x-player that embraces what Ward built in charge you will be amazed how fast the quality of the team changes......
With all due respect, this is bull.

Love him or hate him, Frank Anderson is not the man responsible for the decline of the baseball program. There are a number of factors (including facilities) that have brought it down from where it was 20 years ago. Anderson has become the target because he's not a Ward guy.

There is no guarantee an ex-player will have success just because they played here. NONE. This is the same point that's had to be beaten home about every other sport on campus. Personally, I think this is what eventually will cause Anderson's departure, whether by force or by his own volition - the fact that some will flatly refuse to ever accept him because he didn't play here.

If Tom Holliday had been able to do what Anderson did, you guys would be singing his praises from the mountaintops. But because Frank is an outsider, it's not good enough.

You cannot expect anyone, even an ex-player, to come in and win like Ward did with no support. If Anderson could do what Ward did and fundraise for things as needed, even that would be a help, but he can't. Ward's freedom to work donors for things the program needed was a big part in keeping things going. He was able to make things happen without full administrative support, but that's not allowed anymore.

There are things Anderson can improve on, for sure. I have also been one that has said the history of the program has not been embraced. He quite likely does need to make staff changes. But he doesn't have control over all the issues that have to be corrected, and his removal will not alleviate those - nor does bringing in an ex-player magically make them go away.
 

Ptak'sNewspaper

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#69
With all due respect, this is bull.

Love him or hate him, Frank Anderson is not the man responsible for the decline of the baseball program. There are a number of factors (including facilities) that have brought it down from where it was 20 years ago. Anderson has become the target because he's not a Ward guy.

There is no guarantee an ex-player will have success just because they played here. NONE. This is the same point that's had to be beaten home about every other sport on campus. Personally, I think this is what eventually will cause Anderson's departure, whether by force or by his own volition - the fact that some will flatly refuse to ever accept him because he didn't play here.

If Tom Holliday had been able to do what Anderson did, you guys would be singing his praises from the mountaintops. But because Frank is an outsider, it's not good enough.

You cannot expect anyone, even an ex-player, to come in and win like Ward did with no support. If Anderson could do what Ward did and fundraise for things as needed, even that would be a help, but he can't. Ward's freedom to work donors for things the program needed was a big part in keeping things going. He was able to make things happen without full administrative support, but that's not allowed anymore.

There are things Anderson can improve on, for sure. I have also been one that has said the history of the program has not been embraced. He quite likely does need to make staff changes. But he doesn't have control over all the issues that have to be corrected, and his removal will not alleviate those - nor does bringing in an ex-player magically make them go away.


There's also not the guarantee that bringing someone else in wouldn't get us back to winning either. What I'm saying is no one knows if someone else could come in and turn things around or not. But, it doesn't hurt to try something new. If the baseball team doesn't return to a regional this year, it's time for a change.
 

Ptak'sNewspaper

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#70
Didn't say that. What I'm saying is that there have been people trying to make OSU into OU for 40 years. They only care about football, because that's what their OU friends care about and give them crap about when OU wins. The other stuff doesn't matter to them.

I am also one that is not prepared to sacrifice everything at the altar of football...but I also know that I'm very likely in the minority of OSU fans today.

Um, so, you're saying that these "people" who have been trying to make OSU into OU for 40 years are the ones calling the shots? Last I checked, it's pretty clear that Holder and Boone are in charge and they are the ones who have led us down this path for better or worse.

Just because a lot of OSU fans have wanted us to become OU for 40 years doesn't mean that these "people" have any say in what is going on. And if you think that these "people" have pressured Boone and Holder into going on this path, that's just crazy talk.

So, in short, I don't get what you're trying to say.
 

superpoke

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#71
Um, so, you're saying that these "people" who have been trying to make OSU into OU for 40 years are the ones calling the shots? Last I checked, it's pretty clear that Holder and Boone are in charge and they are the ones who have led us down this path for better or worse.

Just because a lot of OSU fans have wanted us to become OU for 40 years doesn't mean that these "people" have any say in what is going on. And if you think that these "people" have pressured Boone and Holder into going on this path, that's just crazy talk.

So, in short, I don't get what you're trying to say.
It may not be those specific people (especially since the NCAA banned some of them), but their goal is the goal in place now: to have a top-level football program with the other stuff secondary. The people may change, but over the last 40 years, there have been a lot who have tried to push us into being like OU. And whether or not they're the ones doing it, what they want is coming to pass.

It's not about specific people. It's about the mindset - it existed long before Boone and Holder were running things. It's only now that it's coming to fruition without accompanying NCAA sanctions.
 
Mar 16, 2011
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#72
With all due respect, this is bull.

Love him or hate him, Frank Anderson is not the man responsible for the decline of the baseball program. There are a number of factors (including facilities) that have brought it down from where it was 20 years ago. Anderson has become the target because he's not a Ward guy.

There is no guarantee an ex-player will have success just because they played here. NONE. This is the same point that's had to be beaten home about every other sport on campus. Personally, I think this is what eventually will cause Anderson's departure, whether by force or by his own volition - the fact that some will flatly refuse to ever accept him because he didn't play here.

If Tom Holliday had been able to do what Anderson did, you guys would be singing his praises from the mountaintops. But because Frank is an outsider, it's not good enough.

You cannot expect anyone, even an ex-player, to come in and win like Ward did with no support. If Anderson could do what Ward did and fundraise for things as needed, even that would be a help, but he can't. Ward's freedom to work donors for things the program needed was a big part in keeping things going. He was able to make things happen without full administrative support, but that's not allowed anymore.

There are things Anderson can improve on, for sure. I have also been one that has said the history of the program has not been embraced. He quite likely does need to make staff changes. But he doesn't have control over all the issues that have to be corrected, and his removal will not alleviate those - nor does bringing in an ex-player magically make them go away.
There is no guarantee but we have some pretty good evidence that supports otherwise. Mike Gundy, Bill Young, Eddie Sutton, John Smith, Robbie Wine, John Farrell just to name the ones that come to mind easily. The core of OSU baseball fans are "Gary Ward era" fans. You manage to bring someone from that linage in and you will generate more interest in the program and probably even more donations, should the position be available. When I throw out Rocky Ward as a candidate it's for good reason. He's turned NMS into a great program with a multitude more success than before he arrived. I know it's only 6 weeks into this season but NMS has an RPI of 68, we're currently sitting at an RPI of 166. There is ample anecdotal evidence and empirical data to support quite a few former players for assistant or head coaching positions. When I did have a conversation with Rocky, he said "it would take a tremendous groundswell from Alumni and supporters to make it happen" So I'm guessing there is some very bad blood between holder and the Wards.

Continuing on that subject, I'm not sure Holder is doing a GREAT job. He's making as many mistakes as doing things right. Don't misunderstand me, I've been a fan of every OSU sport for 35 years and I LOVED LOVED seeing your last football season but we can't forget and scrap every other program. Between giving Travis Ford a 10!!! year deal and the hair-brianed scheme to take out life insurance policies that ended up costing the university 33 million in premium payments, Holder is digging us a hole. Think how far that 33 million could have gone towards Tennis, Baseball and some of the other sports.

I really really really think if we just developed some semblance of hitting discipline, we would win quite a few more games this season. I guess it's just more of a philosophical
difference, I'm more in favor of hitters that will take guys deep into the count and chase starters out early, especially the ones having a hard time finding the strike zone. SO many times last season an opposing pitcher is struggling to find the strike zone and we had a batter go up first-pitch swinging. I would keep score on the games and we would routinely let opposing pitchers out of an inning throwing 4 to 8 pitches. Adjusting to FA "small ball" has been hard. It's predicated on being solid defensively and having great pitching. When either of those break down we don't have the offense to overcome. I'd like to see us go deep into the NCAA's this year. If, God forbid, we have a losing season, FA has to go, period.
 
Mar 16, 2011
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#73
I don't disagree with your thinking here.

Ever since Anderson took over, he has tried to change the style of play at OSU, which is fine, if it works. It has not worked. Our mediocre Anderson teams have looked like a hybrid of OSU and Texas in style. That has not worked out. We can't seem to bring in the same quality of pitching that Texas and Texas A&M do, so the style fails. The teams under Anderson that have been good looked more like vintage OSU teams, to tell you the truth. In 06, 07, and 08 those teams could knock the ball around the park with the best of them. I think we led the league those years in HR's and Double, if I'm not mistaken. So, those teams were built more like vintage OSU teams, hitting the ball around the park with lots of power. But the OSU teams that have seemed to have a little better ERA's with much weaker hitting numbers have not had success.

As far as firing a coach, I have no freaking clue what is the big deal. Anderson has been making very good money at OSU for 9 years now (around $500,000 a year is what I heard, not sure if true). If he hasn't been saving for a rainy day, then he's a moron. Same thing with Ford, people act like it's a sin to fire a coach when he's been making $2 million a year. Absolutely crazy how people can feel sorry for coaches who are making that much money. Just another example of how America has become sissified...
The problem with firing Ford is the buy-out. It would cost the University millions since genius Holder gave him a 10 year deal. For better or worse, we're stuck with Ford for a while.

Something else to take into consideration. The attendance numbers since FA took over have been horrendous. I compiled them last season and it's been a pretty rough decline year after year. Granted, Allie P. isn't the crown jewel of the big 8 anymore but the style of play doesn't suit us old-school fans. It infuriates me to go to a game and watch us have zero hitting discipline. People will reference our overall offensive numbers instead of looking at the details, situational hitting. Being able to make that struggling pitcher throw 30 or 40 pitches to get out of an inning. One of my favorite baseballisms, a walk is as good as a hit.
 
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#74
Coach Anderson was promised a brand new ballpark to recruit to. He's aslo had to deal with ncaa mandated scholarship limitations he wasn't responsible for. I would say that due to those two factors, over his career he's probably over-performed.

The main issue I've had over the past few years is lack of team chemistry & leadership. Regardless of how bad your facilities are & how few scholarships you have to give out, you still control the personality of your team through recruiting.
It seems like we've had several years recently where the team looked completely uninspired & apathetic toward the last part of the season. If Coach Anderson is going to succeed, that trend has to change soon.

I want Coach Anderson to succeed because I like him. I think he's a good guy. Truthfully I'm not sure if he'll turn this program around or not. But with our facilities in the shape they're in, I'm not sure we could bring in anyone better. Our baseball program in just in bad shape right now.
 
Mar 16, 2011
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#75
Coach Anderson was promised a brand new ballpark to recruit to. He's aslo had to deal with ncaa mandated scholarship limitations he wasn't responsible for. I would say that due to those two factors, over his career he's probably over-performed.

The main issue I've had over the past few years is lack of team chemistry & leadership. Regardless of how bad your facilities are & how few scholarships you have to give out, you still control the personality of your team through recruiting.
It seems like we've had several years recently where the team looked completely uninspired & apathetic toward the last part of the season. If Coach Anderson is going to succeed, that trend has to change soon.

I want Coach Anderson to succeed because I like him. I think he's a good guy. Truthfully I'm not sure if he'll turn this program around or not. But with our facilities in the shape they're in, I'm not sure we could bring in anyone better. Our baseball program in just in bad shape right now.
Just and observation, in the last two seasons the teams fell apart after school was over and the summer started. May be just a coincidence but I'm curious to watch this season too.
 

superpoke

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#76
There is no guarantee but we have some pretty good evidence that supports otherwise. Mike Gundy, Bill Young, Eddie Sutton, John Smith, Robbie Wine, John Farrell just to name the ones that come to mind easily. The core of OSU baseball fans are "Gary Ward era" fans. You manage to bring someone from that linage in and you will generate more interest in the program and probably even more donations, should the position be available. When I throw out Rocky Ward as a candidate it's for good reason. He's turned NMS into a great program with a multitude more success than before he arrived. I know it's only 6 weeks into this season but NMS has an RPI of 68, we're currently sitting at an RPI of 166. There is ample anecdotal evidence and empirical data to support quite a few former players for assistant or head coaching positions. When I did have a conversation with Rocky, he said "it would take a tremendous groundswell from Alumni and supporters to make it happen" So I'm guessing there is some very bad blood between holder and the Wards.

Continuing on that subject, I'm not sure Holder is doing a GREAT job. He's making as many mistakes as doing things right. Don't misunderstand me, I've been a fan of every OSU sport for 35 years and I LOVED LOVED seeing your last football season but we can't forget and scrap every other program. Between giving Travis Ford a 10!!! year deal and the hair-brianed scheme to take out life insurance policies that ended up costing the university 33 million in premium payments, Holder is digging us a hole. Think how far that 33 million could have gone towards Tennis, Baseball and some of the other sports.

I really really really think if we just developed some semblance of hitting discipline, we would win quite a few more games this season. I guess it's just more of a philosophical
difference, I'm more in favor of hitters that will take guys deep into the count and chase starters out early, especially the ones having a hard time finding the strike zone. SO many times last season an opposing pitcher is struggling to find the strike zone and we had a batter go up first-pitch swinging. I would keep score on the games and we would routinely let opposing pitchers out of an inning throwing 4 to 8 pitches. Adjusting to FA "small ball" has been hard. It's predicated on being solid defensively and having great pitching. When either of those break down we don't have the offense to overcome. I'd like to see us go deep into the NCAA's this year. If, God forbid, we have a losing season, FA has to go, period.
I'm not saying there wouldn't be increased interest - there very well could be. What I am saying is that program ties are not a guarantee of success.

Yes, there have been some successful alumni coaches here. There have also been successful non-alumni coaches. What matters is having the right coach here. Winning brings in fans, regardless of the coach's alma mater. Case in point: Gary Ward.

It's a matter of finding the right fit, alum or not. And I think one of the biggest issues Anderson has had is that some people assumed right at the start that he wasn't the right fit because he isn't an OSU alum, and that perception has lingered his whole tenure.

As for the Wards and Holder, I think "bad blood" might be an understatement. I really wish someone that has it would post the letter Gary sent when he left the second time.
 

Ptak'sNewspaper

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#77
Coach Anderson was promised a brand new ballpark to recruit to. He's aslo had to deal with ncaa mandated scholarship limitations he wasn't responsible for. I would say that due to those two factors, over his career he's probably over-performed.

The main issue I've had over the past few years is lack of team chemistry & leadership. Regardless of how bad your facilities are & how few scholarships you have to give out, you still control the personality of your team through recruiting.
It seems like we've had several years recently where the team looked completely uninspired & apathetic toward the last part of the season. If Coach Anderson is going to succeed, that trend has to change soon.

I want Coach Anderson to succeed because I like him. I think he's a good guy. Truthfully I'm not sure if he'll turn this program around or not. But with our facilities in the shape they're in, I'm not sure we could bring in anyone better. Our baseball program in just in bad shape right now.

This is the reason that I would be in favor of a change if they don't reach a regional this year. Ever since 09, team chemistry and apathetic attitudes have been a huge issue. And, it has nothing to do with scholarship limitations. I was there for the Saturday game against Houston. Chance to take a series against a decent squad, and our guys just acted like they didn't even want to be out there. Houston's dugout was fired up from the beginning, making a lot of noise. It was embarrassing to watch them get so excited and our guys just looked like they didn't care.
 

Ptak'sNewspaper

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#78
I'm not saying there wouldn't be increased interest - there very well could be. What I am saying is that program ties are not a guarantee of success.

Yes, there have been some successful alumni coaches here. There have also been successful non-alumni coaches. What matters is having the right coach here. Winning brings in fans, regardless of the coach's alma mater. Case in point: Gary Ward.

It's a matter of finding the right fit, alum or not. And I think one of the biggest issues Anderson has had is that some people assumed right at the start that he wasn't the right fit because he isn't an OSU alum, and that perception has lingered his whole tenure.

As for the Wards and Holder, I think "bad blood" might be an understatement. I really wish someone that has it would post the letter Gary sent when he left the second time.


And, this is the same thing happening with Travis Ford right now. See how that is turning out? Winning puts butts in the seats, period, end of story.

Anderson has had 9 seasons, 3 of them he had good ball clubs. 9 years is a lot of time to put things together, and it still seems like things have gone backwards since 09. I truly believed from 09 - 11 that the backsliding was due to schlarship reductions and bad facilities. But, I'm beginning to change my mind. I have seen this team and last year's team in person a bunch, and there is no competitive fire in the dugout AT ALL. Last year, the scholarship situation was pretty much back to full, and this year it is back to full. But, this year's squad looks quite a bit worse than last year's.

You're saying that making a change doesn't guarantee success. That's true. But, my opinion is that it certainly won't hurt anything to make a change.
 

superpoke

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#79
And, this is the same thing happening with Travis Ford right now. See how that is turning out? Winning puts butts in the seats, period, end of story.

Anderson has had 9 seasons, 3 of them he had good ball clubs. 9 years is a lot of time to put things together, and it still seems like things have gone backwards since 09. I truly believed from 09 - 11 that the backsliding was due to schlarship reductions and bad facilities. But, I'm beginning to change my mind. I have seen this team and last year's team in person a bunch, and there is no competitive fire in the dugout AT ALL. Last year, the scholarship situation was pretty much back to full, and this year it is back to full. But, this year's squad looks quite a bit worse than last year's.

You're saying that making a change doesn't guarantee success. That's true. But, my opinion is that it certainly won't hurt anything to make a change.
I think it's somewhat different with Ford because of the acrimony that existed before his arrival, but he's certainly not doing much to prove his doubters wrong. Frank's at least getting his team into the tournament most of the time, which is one of the biggest hurdles OSU would have in trying to replace him right now.

There are very few places that can fire a coach for "only" making the tournament and get someone better in. You can do that after a quick dropoff at an elite program, but not at one that's been out of the elite for 15 years. We're not like LSU anymore.

That's not to say that a change won't be necessary at some point - our history tells us that. Heck, Chet Bryan made three trips to Omaha before the program tanked in the '70s. But if the program is still showing some success and Anderson is dismissed, it's not going to be an easy sell to elite-level coaches to come here.
 
Jun 23, 2011
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#80
FA could have the best facilities in the world and we would still suck. I'm sick and tired of people giving him excuses. He's been here too long to not have done jack. Time for a change. IMO we need someone new and someone with OSU ties.