Embarrassing and classless (Marcus Smart shoves Tech fan)

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Nov 26, 2008
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If a Texas Tech player shoved an Oklahoma State fan how many of us would be reacting differently?

Face it, we know currently just a tiny sliver of this story. A lot of the defense of Marcus Smart is because he's one of us, and a lot of the condemnation, a lot of the believing of rumors, etc is because the fan wasn't one of us. Then there is just some rational discussion in the middle.

Typical of every hot button sports issues. You side with the team or player you like and figure out a way to paint the team or player you don't like negatively even though it wouldn't be a negative if your team or player was doing it. Plain and simple. The opposite of our discussion here is going on with TTU fans. And our rivals get to go 'See OSU is terrible look at Marcus Smart!' TTU's rivals get to go 'See I told you those Tech fans are awful!' Circle of sports life.
 
Nov 3, 2008
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You don't think it remotely makes sense that Marcus could be telling the truth?
Could he be? Yeah. I've seen very little that leads me to believe a racial slur was used, but I'm not saying it's impossible.

I think there is a better chance that Smart misheard than there is that either are outright lying, but I see very little evidence that would leave me to believe Smart over Orr. Especially now that an investigation was conducted, a video has surfaced, there are literally no witnesses that support Smart's claim, Smart didn't say a racial slur was used in his press conference, OSU didn't say that, the Big 12 didn't say that.

Anything is possible, but just simply looking at the facts, I think Orr said "you're a piece of crap", Smart got up, Orr said "sorry about that" and then Smart shoved him.

You're asking me to consider the possibility that an entire collection of people all came up with the same lie, and doctored a video. I'm only suggesting that ONE person may have misheard or lied. What's the more likely scenario???
 
Nov 5, 2011
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Interesting perspective from Orangebloods Goeff Ketchum..

No. 5 - Momma always said there would be days like this (Part II) …

Oh boy, this is the part of this week's column when I address the situation that occurred this weekend in Lubbock.

Let's start with some perspective …

First of all, Oklahoma State guard Marcus Smart shoved a fan. He didn't punch him or slap him or anything that required medical attention. Make no mistake about it, Smart should not have reacted in the manner that he did and the situation could have escalated into something larger, but it didn't. All that happened was that a visiting player shoved a Tech fan that just happened to refer to him as feces at the very least.

No crime was committed, which is ironic because if Smart had been popped for a DUI or had been involved in a fight off-campus, there's a better than fair shot that much of the public uproar would be substantially less had he actually been involved in something that would have sent him to jail.

The kid got his suspension of three games and it's absolutely justified. As with everything else in life, there are consequences for your actions and Smart will learn the hard way as college basketball uses this incident to pretend that its moral compass is in place.

What I want to know if what Texas Tech is going to do to ensure that it's "No. 1 fan" isn't in a position to incite this type of situation with indefensible rhetoric moving forward? What I want to know is why Tech athletic official Blayne Beal (and I'm guessing other Tech officials) doesn't believe that the same fan mouthing off and making obscene gestures to other opposing players is crossing a line of decency? What I want to know is if the standards for decency only apply to the 19-year old unpaid college athlete?

I don't care how many miles this joker has travelled to see the Red Raiders play, this is the second documented instance of Jeff Orr creating an issue from the same seat in the last few years and if there aren't any repercussions for Orr moving forward, I'm going to have a very hard time watching Smart take all the heat. I'm not talking about this self-imposed timeout from Orr that was announced on Sunday. No, I'm talking about Texas Tech sending a statement that they will protect the rights of the athletes more than the rights of a man that gives money to them.

The NCAA claims that it exists to take care of its student-athletes and this is exactly the type of situation where it needs to prove it. The behavior in a number of college basketball venues crosses the lines of decency and I'm still waiting to get a sense that someone actually has the gall to demand more from someone other than the athletes.

Bottom line: The NCAA and Texas Tech must ensure that the lessons learned in this situation aren't applied to Smart and only Smart.
 
Oct 30, 2005
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If a Texas Tech player shoved an Oklahoma State fan how many of us would be reacting differently?

Face it, we know currently just a tiny sliver of this story. A lot of the defense of Marcus Smart is because he's one of us, and a lot of the condemnation, a lot of the believing of rumors, etc is because the fan wasn't one of us. Then there is just some rational discussion in the middle.

Typical of every hot button sports issues. You side with the team or player you like and figure out a way to paint the team or player you don't like negatively even though it wouldn't be a negative if your team or player was doing it. Plain and simple. The opposite of our discussion here is going on with TTU fans. And our rivals get to go 'See OSU is terrible look at Marcus Smart!' TTU's rivals get to go 'See I told you those Tech fans are awful!' Circle of sports life.
Watch the video of Mr. Orr at the tam game. Tell me he's a nice, honest, upstanding guy.
 
Nov 15, 2012
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You don't sound like you have an objective opinion on this topic...And, there is no evidence of what was said that can be "seen."
Says the person who is ignoring the only piece of close-up documentation of the event.

Marcus gave an immediate explanation of what happened. Mr. Orr tweeted later that he felt bad about what he said, but the tweet where he denied saying the n-word came a couple hours later, which leads me to believe he had to think about an explanation for what happened that protected him.
Orr didn't tweet anything. He released an apology statement late this afternoon; that's the first time he's publicly addressed the issue in any way. Doug Gottlieb (a person whose objectivity is completely unimpeachable in matters pertaining to OSU, I'm sure) is the one who tweeted an image he said was of a text conversation between Orr and another person. If you're going to post hearsay, at least make an effort to figure out where it started.

...Nah, much easier (and, according to you, more believable) to play the race card from the hip like Smart *allegedly* did. I say allegedly, because I haven't seen any direct evidence that he ever has played the race card on this matter...all reports of that come from one of your radio announcers who says he overheard Smart telling Ford as much at the bench. Maybe that's true, maybe it's not, maybe there was too much "crowd noise" for him to really hear what was being said but felt the need to guess something anyways because it would be a good story. But there are only two videos so far of the incident: one zoomed video of the altercation which had no way of recording audio, and one very closely shot video of someone saying "You're a piece of crap." Everything else is a product of the media witch-hunting for a racist; the next verifiable shred of evidence I see of race baiting will be the first.

Regardless, Tech won the ballgame and has lost the resulting war. Despite any hard evidence to the contrary Orr and Tech are the racist bogeymen du jour, and popular public opinion will be stilted against us from here on out ("Hey, isn't Texas Tech the school where those racists attacked the basketball player?")

Richard Jewell.

There is no OCEAN FRONT property in Arizona. :facepalm:
Yes, that's the point of the expression.
 
Nov 3, 2008
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Watch the video of Mr. Orr at the tam game. Tell me he's a nice, honest, upstanding guy.
Who here has said "he's a nice, honest, upstanding guy?

I just don't think a picture of a guy flipping off a fan means that should solely justify him being accused of a racial slur if the ONLY evidence is Marcus Smart's word.

"Texas Tech interviewed Mr. Orr along with numerous fans, photographers and arena personnel that were seated in the area surrounding him."

I'm not asking for your opinion on what happened. I'm simply asking what is the likelihood that numerous fans, photographers, arena personnel all lied and Texas Tech doctored a video?

Now what is the likelihood that Smart misheard or lied?
 
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Nov 3, 2008
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...Nah, much easier (and, according to you, more believable) to play the race card from the hip like Smart *allegedly* did. I say allegedly, because I haven't seen any direct evidence that he ever has played the race card on this matter...all reports of that come from one of your radio announcers who says he overheard Smart telling Ford as much at the bench.
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bas...a-state-cowboys-suspended-3-games-shoving-fan

"Smart claimed to Oklahoma State coaches that Orr called him a racial slur, a member of the basketball program confirmed to ESPN."

A member of the OSU basketball program confirmed the accusation of racial slur. This means that it goes much further than just some idiot OSU announcer tweet.

The OSU basketball program needs to provide evidence of a racial slur, or come out and publicly apologize for spreading false accusations.
 
Nov 15, 2012
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http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bas...a-state-cowboys-suspended-3-games-shoving-fan

"Smart claimed to Oklahoma State coaches that Orr called him a racial slur, a member of the basketball program confirmed to ESPN."

A member of the OSU basketball program confirmed the accusation of racial slur. This means that it goes much further than just some idiot OSU announcer tweet.

The OSU basketball program needs to provide evidence of a racial slur, or come out and publicly apologize for spreading false accusations.
Sounds like it's probably a fellow player or trainer or something to me..."member of the OSU basketball program" doesn't sound like a coach.

It's still second-hand information. A little more solid, but not like we've got the guy on tape making the claim. OSU's smart; the media/public opinion has been ripping them to shreds for months, but now it's willing to go to bat to defend them. There's no way they'd screw that up even if a cellphone video turns up that has every word from every person of the incident. They've had all the bad publicity they could want in the last year, owing up to a potential falsehood would just guarantee more.
 

msq2

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Aug 27, 2009
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http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bas...a-state-cowboys-suspended-3-games-shoving-fan

"Smart claimed to Oklahoma State coaches that Orr called him a racial slur, a member of the basketball program confirmed to ESPN."

A member of the OSU basketball program confirmed the accusation of racial slur. This means that it goes much further than just some idiot OSU announcer tweet.

The OSU basketball program needs to provide evidence of a racial slur, or come out and publicly apologize for spreading false accusations.
please stop trolling.
 
May 4, 2011
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When the camera went back security was talking to the guys Smart was actually laying on, who were helping him up, and they were likely talking about what happened.

The fan is an embarassment as a human being. I absolutely believe he said exactly what Smart says he did, but under no circumstance can he do what he did. Alert the refs and security, NEVER go after the fans.
Totally agree. I mostly think it's sad that players have to go through that. NCAA basketball should be far better than European soccer. Sad to see that apparently it's not.
 

cowboyethics344

Federal Marshal
Apr 2, 2008
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Either way I bet it's hard to recruit to tech when all you have to say is there is a bunch of racists out there in west texas. Not saying it's right but
 
Nov 26, 2008
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Either way I bet it's hard to recruit to tech when all you have to say is there is a bunch of racists out there in west texas. Not saying it's right but
That's a bit of a stretch, especially since you can look at the recruiting rankings and say there are a 'bunch of racists' amongst the fanbases of most all the top classes
 
Aug 7, 2009
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If a Texas Tech player shoved an Oklahoma State fan how many of us would be reacting differently?

Face it, we know currently just a tiny sliver of this story. A lot of the defense of Marcus Smart is because he's one of us, and a lot of the condemnation, a lot of the believing of rumors, etc is because the fan wasn't one of us. Then there is just some rational discussion in the middle.

Typical of every hot button sports issues. You side with the team or player you like and figure out a way to paint the team or player you don't like negatively even though it wouldn't be a negative if your team or player was doing it. Plain and simple. The opposite of our discussion here is going on with TTU fans. And our rivals get to go 'See OSU is terrible look at Marcus Smart!' TTU's rivals get to go 'See I told you those Tech fans are awful!' Circle of sports life.
WRONG at least in my case, I side with what I think is fair. We can speculate but we don't know for sure, there are two sides to most every confrontation and Mr. Orr is definitely not as pure as the driven snow.

I saw this clip today on Pro Sports Daily, much more important in the life of Marcus than any suspension in a season already lost:

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/artic...blowup-affect-his-nba-draft-stock-289523.html
 
Nov 6, 2004
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Interesting perspective from Orangebloods Goeff Ketchum..

No. 5 - Momma always said there would be days like this (Part II) …

Oh boy, this is the part of this week's column when I address the situation that occurred this weekend in Lubbock.

Let's start with some perspective …

First of all, Oklahoma State guard Marcus Smart shoved a fan. He didn't punch him or slap him or anything that required medical attention. Make no mistake about it, Smart should not have reacted in the manner that he did and the situation could have escalated into something larger, but it didn't. All that happened was that a visiting player shoved a Tech fan that just happened to refer to him as feces at the very least.

No crime was committed, which is ironic because if Smart had been popped for a DUI or had been involved in a fight off-campus, there's a better than fair shot that much of the public uproar would be substantially less had he actually been involved in something that would have sent him to jail.

The kid got his suspension of three games and it's absolutely justified. As with everything else in life, there are consequences for your actions and Smart will learn the hard way as college basketball uses this incident to pretend that its moral compass is in place.

What I want to know if what Texas Tech is going to do to ensure that it's "No. 1 fan" isn't in a position to incite this type of situation with indefensible rhetoric moving forward? What I want to know is why Tech athletic official Blayne Beal (and I'm guessing other Tech officials) doesn't believe that the same fan mouthing off and making obscene gestures to other opposing players is crossing a line of decency? What I want to know is if the standards for decency only apply to the 19-year old unpaid college athlete?

I don't care how many miles this joker has travelled to see the Red Raiders play, this is the second documented instance of Jeff Orr creating an issue from the same seat in the last few years and if there aren't any repercussions for Orr moving forward, I'm going to have a very hard time watching Smart take all the heat. I'm not talking about this self-imposed timeout from Orr that was announced on Sunday. No, I'm talking about Texas Tech sending a statement that they will protect the rights of the athletes more than the rights of a man that gives money to them.

The NCAA claims that it exists to take care of its student-athletes and this is exactly the type of situation where it needs to prove it. The behavior in a number of college basketball venues crosses the lines of decency and I'm still waiting to get a sense that someone actually has the gall to demand more from someone other than the athletes.

Bottom line: The NCAA and Texas Tech must ensure that the lessons learned in this situation aren't applied to Smart and only Smart.
Texas Tech invented racism.
 
Nov 10, 2011
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I wish more of our own fans would man-up enough to stand up for Marcus Smart more.
I'm copying over a tweet from comedian Daniel Tosh. It has over 14,000 retweets or favorites. The stars are mine, Tosh went ahead and spelled it out.
I said it yesterday, and I'll say it again. I see more support for Smart out in the general population than I do from OP folks. I find that pathetic.
All of you fans who are immediately "done" with Marcus, who want him off the team, and say it doesn't matter what was said to him are full of crap. Where else in the world besides a sports court is it okay for a 55 year old man to scream racial hate at a young man? Why is that okay with some of you? I'm starting to think those of you on this side may be a lot closer to relating to Jeff Orr than you are in relating to Marcus Smart.
No, Marcus shouldn't have shoved him, but I'm sick of you all who are so quick to be done with him. I wish the rest of us could be done with you. Go root for another team. And I'm sick of this thread title, too. #I'mWithMarcus and I'm with Daniel Tosh, too.

@danieltosh
i have no problem with marcus smart shoving that fat f***. maybe a few less self-entitled "fans" will stop running their mouths.
1:38pm · 10 Feb 14 · web

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cowboyethics344

Federal Marshal
Apr 2, 2008
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I wish more of our own fans would man-up enough to stand up for Marcus Smart more.
I'm copying over a tweet from comedian Daniel Tosh. It has over 14,000 retweets or favorites. The stars are mine, Tosh went ahead and spelled it out.
I said it yesterday, and I'll say it again. I see more support for Smart out in the general population than I do from OP folks. I find that pathetic.
All of you fans who are immediately "done" with Marcus, who want him off the team, and say it doesn't matter what was said to him are full of crap. Where else in the world besides a sports court is it okay for a 55 year old man to scream racial hate at a young man? Why is that okay with some of you? I'm starting to think those of you on this side may be a lot closer to relating to Jeff Orr than you are in relating to Marcus Smart.
No, Marcus shouldn't have shoved him, but I'm sick of you all who are so quick to be done with him. I wish the rest of us could be done with you. Go root for another team. And I'm sick of this thread title, too. #I'mWithMarcus and I'm with Daniel Tosh, too.

@danieltosh
i have no problem with marcus smart shoving that fat f***. maybe a few less self-entitled "fans" will stop running their mouths.
1:38pm · 10 Feb 14 · web

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Some of us look at the evidence and it doesn't point in Smart's favor. I support Marcus Smart but I don't ignore what I see......like logic and reasoning. If I felt like Smart was telling the truth, then I would have his back.