Fixing the American National Unity problem

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Rack

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Oct 13, 2004
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#22
We are never going to fix this problem. It's just going to get worse and worse.
Are you sure...and why do you think it can't get better? I understand being pessimistic, heck I'm thinking of moving overseas mostly because of American disunity and ignorance...on both extremes and the media's use of those two extremes in order to divide us. However, I do think it could get better, and in fact it's imperative that it does.

Ask yourself, how many people do I know personally or have I had contact with personally who I know believe completely different than I do, YET we get along and can have fun together? It should be a lot...Here's my point, we need to act political on line and in our own box with the same respect and honor that we would show each other in person. This is our dilemma, the less personal media and Twittersphere world in which we live becoming better and more personal should be our goal.

Example, @CowboyJD seems to give me ZZZZ's even on post where I'm calling for unity and finding unity and compromise...He doesn't know me, as far as I know, in person from Adam...Yet he seems to have a pre conceived idea from my politics because I've been open about them on this board over time for several years and he has put me in a box even though my opinions have changed and evolved over time....The box he has put me in I can guarantee I do not fit. If he knew me in person I'm pretty sure he'd have a much different opinion of who I am...as I would likely of him as well.

We need to learn civility on all sides of all arguments, we need to learn to listen to EVEN the people who think Trump got cheated out of the election to find out what the deep down issue is and why they feel the way they do. We still might not agree with them and we may try to convivence them otherwise...heck with the ones who claim to be "Christians" we should be able to convivence that even if it did happen it doesn't matter as government isn't their God. The problem is disqualifying someone from a discussion just because they are on the wrong side of arguments in our own minds...Doing that cements their opinions and pours them in mental concrete.

IF we truly want change we will engage in a loving manner with our American brothers and sisters of all types, and all beliefs. Doing otherwise doesn't tell them they are wrong...it tells them you think they have no value as persons. This is a dangerous way to move as a country and one I'm personally attempting to change. Value everyone...especially those we disagree with in order to find common ground...this values a person even if we don't agree with their opinions. IMHO, this is the key to our democracy and our very survival as a nation. In fact, it's the essence of being "pro-life."
 
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Rack

Legendary Cowboy
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#24
My fear is that we're heading to a place where violence becomes a larger part of our politics.
That scares the heck out of me as well and has been pretty common for over a decade maybe two decades. The mass shootings, the mass protest, the mass triggered capital riots, the shootings at schools, church's, synagogues, masque and even temples. Much of it "politically" motivated for or against one thing or another. This is the main reason I'm looking to travel full time in a few years if not next year... Not that I don't know this happens in other locations, but that we can pick and choose more safe places who have better figured out unity and harmony to live in as we go. All while being a lifelong learner and seeing the world...
 

Pokit N

Gent of Good Intent
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#25
Look personally...It's been a known tactic of the left to label anyone on the right as a racist, bigot, homophobe, transphobe etc..We've known this since the Ezra Klein JournalList Scandal. Eff Rags like Older School were calling McCain and Romney nazi's waaaay before Trump came along. I'm supposed to be cordial to people who think I'm a Nazi while they burn cities to the ground? Sorry, I'm not gonna be the left's Ned Stark to their Cersei Lannister.
 

Rack

Legendary Cowboy
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#26
Look personally...It's been a known tactic of the left to label anyone on the right as a racist, bigot, homophobe, transphobe etc..We've known this since the Ezra Klein JournalList Scandal. Eff Rags like Older School were calling McCain and Romney nazi's waaaay before Trump came along. I'm supposed to be cordial to people who think I'm a Nazi while they burn cities to the ground? Sorry, I'm not gonna be the left's Ned Stark to their Cersei Lannister.
Honestly, I had to look up all three of the "people" you referenced here. My point remains that it's not about the journalist or the two factious characters you brought up, but far more often our neighbor or fellow citizen and the general public. My point is to be kind and listen and do the right thing by making the relationship more important than the topic of disagreement...because it is. IMHO, relationship are more important than our jobs, being right, and even our money. As far as the people you talk about here which is the extreme left in your example, these extremist are the ones we are trying to defeat on both sides. The problem, as I see it anyway, is that my party has taken a huge Trumpian noise dive at least on media into the same thing you say the other extreme has done (which I also believe is true). What I'm asking for is unity among the sane, logical, America saving people...Not the ones who say they are mind you...all they seem to want is to divide and vilify the other side...unfortunately, you are right and the insane may still be beyond help.

HOWEVER, no matter if you are a Christian or not, here's something profound to consider...
Winning by losing. We Christians, at least from a human perspective, are suppose to know the greatest example of this in the history of mankind yet we fight like we want to win here and now instead of beyond it and in the future. We know life is fleeting and that grace and love are the ONLY answers...we know our nation is finite...we know where the only hope is for our friends, family, and those whom we disagree and that hope isn't found in arguments about politics and policy but in love. YET we want to be right, we what them to know we are smarter than them...so we prove we aren't over and over on social media and in real media and all we do is make it worse and cement their opinions of us as hypocrites and fools...HOWEVER...IF we loved them as Christ DOES we would gain for them...We are the problem when we forget this fact.

Btw, here's a few martyrs who "won by losing" the very thing we hold most dear and fear the most...

Jesus the Christ "God forgive them for they know not what they are doing"
"Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God."
"Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth"


Gandhi "where their is love their is change, you must be the very change you seek to see in the world"
MLK "Love is the only force capable of transforming an enemy into a friend"
Socrates “The difficulty, my friends, is not in avoiding death, but in avoiding unrighteousness; for that runs faster than death.“ "the only true wisdom is knowing you know nothing." "the unexamined life is not worth living"

Lincoln "Nations do not die from invasion, they die from internal rottenness."
 
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CowboyJD

The Voice of Reason...occasionally......rarely
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Dec 10, 2004
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#27
How about a Litmus test? One question!
Did trump get cheated in the 2020 election?
The answer would definitely tell me weather I could listen and consider ANY alternative view that poster may have.
Got a couple more for ya!
Did Trump legitimately win the the 2016 election?
Did Gore get cheated in the 2000 election?
The answer would definitely tell me weather I could listen and consider ANY alternative view that poster may have.
Multiple days have passed, and I'm still the only one that has answered these questions.

Not even the folks that asked them have answered.

That says a whole lot about how seriously your pleas for "unity" is being taken from both sides doesn't it @Rack?
 

Vakarian74

Deputy
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#28
How about a Litmus test? One question!
Did trump get cheated in the 2020 election?
The answer would definitely tell me weather I could listen and consider ANY alternative view that poster may have.
No he didn’t.
Got a couple more for ya!
Did Trump legitimately win the the 2016 election?
Did Gore get cheated in the 2000 election?
The answer would definitely tell me weather I could listen and consider ANY alternative view that poster may have.
1. The vote was legitimate.
2.Florida voting system was stupid but Bush won. Ps I voted for Bush both times.
 

Rack

Legendary Cowboy
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#29
Multiple days have passed, and I'm still the only one that has answered these questions.

Not even the folks that asked them have answered.

That says a whole lot about how seriously your pleas for "unity" is being taken from both sides doesn't it @Rack?
Sadly many aren't ready to compromise and many are too hung up on national policies and camped out in their "team" mindset...I've been there as you know...it's not a healthy place to be. As a life long learner I'm challenging my long held "beliefs" and refining them as I age. I just wish I had earlier. I do think it's very important that we on all sides see the BS we are being fed as totally for ratings and money. We need to understand we are hurting our unity when we get caught up in the BS storm. I bet you also want to be an agent for change...is it a lost cause? Maybe, but the fact that it's a lost one doesn't make it one we shouldn't try....the other route obviously isn't working.

1. I don't believe in litmus test for my fellow human...just the fact that they are a fellow human should mean I listen even to the most outrageous of claims...then we should calmly disagree and persuade with love and caring...

2. On the Trump question it's doesn't matter at all anymore...why bring it up? Is it for unity or for division that one does that? Who is promoting that question to even be asked and what are they wanting to gain from it? Does it add to unity to ask it? Once again, not a question anyone should be asking or answering if ones mission is unity.

3. In 2016 see above.

4. In 2000 supreme court decided Bush won...agree with answer #2 but it's not that important in terms of unity of purpose.

So there you go, answered the questions.

here's some more for the board...
1. Why do we put so much importance on our governments elections when in the long run they typically, in the past, balance each other out?
2. Why do we go riot when we don't get our way in the afore mentioned elections when we don't have control of them? Why is it we trust people we don't trust to make decisions we would make for the best?
3. Why even care about national politics when local and state politics means much more to each of us personally? What can we really do to make things better personally??
4. What is a more effective use of my time for change in my own world?
 
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LS1 Z28

Territorial Marshal
Oct 30, 2007
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#32
Divide and conquer is the new norm with politics. Politicians use divisive issues to evoke an emotional response from their voting base. This increases the probability of them voting or donating money. News outlets do the same thing to gain viewers/readers. Everyone is pushing a partisan narrative for personal gain. This has created an environment where politics are a team sport, and no one is satisfied without a winner or loser.

We've also experienced a societal shift over the past few decades. Parents have coddled their kids and made it more difficult for them to experience discomfort. It can be uncomfortable to compromise and agree to disagree at times, but those things are necessary for a functional society.

Technology contributes to the problem as well. Search engines and social media companies use data analytics to custom tailor everything you see. Social media companies allow you to follow or block anyone you don't want to listen to. This creates our own personal echo-chambers that shield us from alternate views.

I'm not sure how these trends change. I hope it doesn't take a nuclear world war in order for us to realize that we're better off united than divided.

The only real litmus test I have for others is respect. I don't care how liberal or conservative someone is, I'll listen to their views as long as they present them in a respectful manner. I enjoy hearing different viewpoints, because that allows me to see issues from different angles.
 
Mar 11, 2006
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#33
Divide and conquer is the new norm with politics. Politicians use divisive issues to evoke an emotional response from their voting base. This increases the probability of them voting or donating money. News outlets do the same thing to gain viewers/readers. Everyone is pushing a partisan narrative for personal gain. This has created an environment where politics are a team sport, and no one is satisfied without a winner or loser.

We've also experienced a societal shift over the past few decades. Parents have coddled their kids and made it more difficult for them to experience discomfort. It can be uncomfortable to compromise and agree to disagree at times, but those things are necessary for a functional society.

Technology contributes to the problem as well. Search engines and social media companies use data analytics to custom tailor everything you see. Social media companies allow you to follow or block anyone you don't want to listen to. This creates our own personal echo-chambers that shield us from alternate views.

I'm not sure how these trends change. I hope it doesn't take a nuclear world war in order for us to realize that we're better off united than divided.

The only real litmus test I have for others is respect. I don't care how liberal or conservative someone is, I'll listen to their views as long as they present them in a respectful manner. I enjoy hearing different viewpoints, because that allows me to see issues from different angles.

 

Rack

Legendary Cowboy
Oct 13, 2004
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#36
Bush won. Trump did not get cheated.
Olderschool - I don't know if either one got cheated...I know Bush won and so did POTUS Biden...and I know Gore acted right and Trump acted like a fool...That is all I know for CERTAIN...but it's enough for me to know that Trump is the wrong type of guy to ever elect again...even if his policy may line up with mine, his ego and personality are so bad that it really just doesn't matter what his policies are. That's all I KNOW for sure...and I didn't KNOW that until all the crap show he put on after the election...not before. This is why I ask that people give people grace and be kind...we cannot convince people who are wrong that they are actually wrong before we create relationship and extend grace. We also cannot do it when we aren't willing to ourselves. I was wrong when I supported that moron...I was fooled by the politics of policy and didn't see (yep I was blind) his rotten ego or though Pence could keep it in check. As a poster on this board, not unlike the guy you hate I might add, I don't recall you ever admitting when you might have been wrong...Can you see that perhaps that may lesson your ability to effect positive change?

Litmus test and policy don't make change, logic even sometimes won't do it...but...

Only one thing enables change and unity ...
The thing that..
"is patient and kind
does not insist on it's own way
is not irritable or resentful
does not rejoice in wrongdoing but still
rejoices in truth"
 
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