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Football and Grad Transfers YAHTZEE!!!

Discussion in 'OSU Sports Forum' started by hoopjunkie, Apr 12, 2017.

  1. hoopjunkie

    hoopjunkie Sheriff

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    not that Lincoln Riley isn't a very good play-caller.....BUT....let's not crown him top-5 off coord until he does it WITHOUT Perine and Mixon and Westbrook.............if he does it again with all new parts (except for Mayfield), THEN you can crown him top-five

    My guess is ou comes back to the pack a bit on offense.......there is no way they have two backs like they have had the past two years, and without those outlets, Mayfield IS going to try to be a hero, and IS going to get hit more than ever, and I believe he has to go to Columbus, and their defense will be big, athletic, fast, and nasty in the horseshoe (so he may not even make it out of pre-conference games)
     
  2. cowboyethics344

    cowboyethics344 Federal Marshal

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    I expect the running backs from OU to perform well but they won't be getting the automatic yards that perine would plow through consistently. They also won't have the home run threat of Mixon. I expect a good back but not a 1-2 punch like that. They will have a 1k rusher because of their o-line. I think teams will be able to get stops more on OU. Mayfield will have all day to throw as usual but might have some WR that are not as reliable.
     
  3. Midnight Toker

    Midnight Toker Territorial Marshal

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    Worst defense in my lifetime no doubt, and still went 11-2. Which is partially why I was really liking a marked improvement toward the end of the season. I dont count those 3 games as success, i count the entire season in aggregate as a nice success. I see you are discounting the improvement on defense and instead placing the blame of defensive performance on the offenses they faced. mentally blocked team, really? Come the F*%* on, would you accept that if I turned it around on you? lol. OU was mentally blocked during 2011 bedlam therefore your win doesnt count.

    But you cant take away from them how they essentially shut down a high powered osu offense. shut down your hurt qb, and your all world wr. Hill had a nice game though. but you know how it goes, champions overcome, and OU was without westbrook for half the game and the offense overcame.

    You mentioned OU beating auburn, but citing they werent offensive juggernauts, so i guess that victory wasnt any good? Screw the #2 sec team, theyre not offensive enough to be worthy. Come on m8. OU did beat offensive juggernauts in ttech baylor osu, and wvu (all top 16 offenses) but you have an excuse as to why those victories werent worth a lick. So according to you, a team can be 11-2, big 12 champs, sugar bowl champs, beat your favorite top 10 ranked osu handily and not be impressive at all. Why does Ou even play football, they cant string together a single impressive win!

    Ohio state won because they were be plain better with better athletes, OU was beaten by a better team simple as that. It was not a good time for that offensive line and the defense was just atrocious. I think it'd have been a different story in january, but we'll never know. Going by how tosu played in the playoff, I like OU's chances. OU is elite on offense, and above average on defense until proven otherwise. One thing that helps is that next season they wont be dependent on starting freshmen at key positions like they did last year. With Ou's offensive line in 2017 they wont get pushed around by anyone which was a problem against tosu, which wasnt a problem against auburn's #18 D who gave up an avg of 15ppg.
     
  4. Midnight Toker

    Midnight Toker Territorial Marshal

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    I think his Broyles award indicates where he stands as compared to other coordinators. If he isnt a top 5 coordinator, I'd like to see which 5 you think are better, using the same criteria. Take away their best two rb and wr, just how good will they look? Anyway, if you want to know what kind of offense Riley can coach up without the likes of Perine, Mixon , Westbrook, and Mayfield you need not look further than the 2014 season where he lead ECU's offense to #6 nationally. In 2015 they were #71.

    I follow OU football pretty closely, and I can tell you there is a very good reason why they are called RBU and 7 months from now you are going to be pretty familiar with Rodney Anderson. He keeps getting these weird injuries that sidelined him for the entire season, but he's back and , well, we feel pretty good about it. Especially since he'll have that massive 333 lb average offensive line. Mayfield wont need to be a hero and getting hit more than ever, I'm pretty sure he'll be able to be who he has been the past two years as long as a wr steps up.
     
  5. Paddytap288

    Paddytap288 Deputy

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    OU will be fine next year. I expect them to be almost as good on O as they were in 2016. Defense was a question mark for them last year in a few games but we know they will have athletes. I'm sure they will be decent on defense too.

    OSU will be good next year. Probably the best team we have fielded since 2011. But man.....I just don't see how we are gonna beat OU twice in the same season. If he pulls it off it will be the most impressive thing Gundy has even done in his time at OSU.
     
  6. OSUMIKE17

    OSUMIKE17 Property of The Oklahoman and NewsOk.com
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    Playing devil's advocate, OU beat OKState last season because Rudolph couldn't throw a wet football and Baker could. By the second half, your RBs took over and that was that.

    That isn't to downplay OU last season because they had a really good team. I just wish I could have seen that game played on a dry field...but hey, that's football.

    Do you really think OU will be "elite" on offense in 2017 despite losing all three of their elite playmakers outside of Baker? I mean, could it happen? Sure. But I wouldn't be so certain in replacing Mixon, Perine, and Westbrook. That's just me.

    Auburn's defense climbed the ranks against mostly hapless offenses in the SEC. Again, I'm not taking away from OU's offense because it was very good. But let's not say "#2 SEC team" without acknowledging they went 8-4 in the regular season. They weren't world beaters by any sense.
     
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  7. Midnight Toker

    Midnight Toker Territorial Marshal

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    Yet some people still think rudolph is better than Mayfield. *Shrugs*. He's very good, its not an insult to say he's not quite as good as Mayfield. I remember the game, Osu just got beat by a better team, it happens.

    Yes I do think OU will be in the top 10 on offense again.Nothing is certain, but I really like OU's chances to be elite again. Their backfield wont have bar-none NFL talents, but I dont think they'll struggle to run the ball. These guys were blue chips in their own right, but they were riding pine behind a couple of NFL backs. The coaches and players see guys like Anderson/Sermon/Sutton in practice every day and theyre fired up about 'em. With that line, Mayfield at qb and Riley calling plays, how can they not have a great run game? Honestly with a great line and great qb, you can make an average rb look good. I seem to remember some really impressive rushing offenses by osu back in the day, and I likened it to a really good system moreso than having the best backs. We shall see, but dont be surprised if they end up with another 1200+ yard rusher. At that point you can say it's OU's system or they are really good at talent evaluation and know how to recruit that position really well.
     
    #67 Midnight Toker, Apr 18, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2017
  8. Paddytap288

    Paddytap288 Deputy

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    I don't think you can say one QB is better than the other. Both have different things they do really well. Mason probably has the best deep ball in the country but has struggled with the short to intermediate balls (accuracy is good but throws high a lot)

    Both are elusive but Baker definitely wins that category. I would say Mason will have the better receivers this year but Baker will have the better line.

    Both have put up really good numbers and won a lot of games. I would give Baker the nod as the better suited college QB but Mason probably has much better pro potential.

    We will see this year though. Both have Heisman hopes. Will be interesting to see how both teams do this year. Probably a safe bet that they will be playing each other yet again for the Big12 champ game.
     
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  9. OSUMIKE17

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    I think Rudolph has certain intangibles that Mayfield doesn't. And vice versa. I wouldn't say Mayfield is "the better QB." And I certainly doubt NFL scouts will see it that way either.

    Better team on that day? Absolutely. But like I said, different weather may have resulted in a different outcome.
    There's a difference between very good and elite. And it is a drastic stretch to say with certainty that the offense will be elite simply because the coaches are fired up about a couple of running backs that have hardly seen any meaningful playing time.

    Every elite backfield at OSU under Gundy had NFL running backs. Savage, Hunter, Toston, Randle. The system itself won't make the performance elite.

    I see you left out which elite playmaker is going to replace Westbrook. Good idea.
     
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  10. Midnight Toker

    Midnight Toker Territorial Marshal

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    This isnt a discussion on who is the better NFL prospect. Give Mayfield 5" and try to tell me that NFL scouts wouldnt be frothing at the mouth for him. Clearly Rudolph's chances of being a NFL qb isnt doing much to help him win anything at all in stillwater. Mayfield isnt an all american because he sucks. Why dont we see rudolph on any AA teams, or first team all big 12? Should be easy for him!

    As far as what these guys are, college qbs, Mayfield is the better qb. But you dont have to take my opinion to the bank, just ask the big 12 coaches who have seen both of them extensively who they think is better. Remind me, how many Heisman votes did Rudolph have last year? It's all opinions, however the opinion that Mayfield is better seems to be prevalent. Not to suggest Rudolph isnt still very good, which he obviously is.

    Better team all season long. Also better on that day, better in the rain... in reality, better when it mattered. Too bad football is played outdoors huh?

    If that was the only reason, you'd be right.

    Yep , I sure did. It wont likely be just one wr stepping up, of course we had no idea who'd step up in 2016 and someone did. Andrews is as matchup nightmare, but if someone steps up it might be juco transfer Marquise Brown, who is reportedly faster than Westbrook. I think this is the best wr class Stoops has ever had. The two freshmen and the two transfers are really good, cant wait to see which one makes the step forward. And if no#1 shows up, then they can do it by committee, which works really nicely in Riley's system. All I know is if you give Mayfield time he'll find the open receiver and his line this year will be giving him time. You know how it goes, a great offensive line can make rbs , wrs, and qbs look good.
     
  11. RutherfordFan

    RutherfordFan Federal Marshal

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    Is Mayfield a great QB. Sure, yes he is. So is Rudolph. You guys only faced a healthy Rudolph one time and you lost to him. You guys had a special offensive team in Norman last year. I expect a good game this year. If Gundy wasn't so afraid of rain, it would have been a good game last year. Rudolph threw for 4,000 yards last year with a cracked rib. He's a bigtime QB. I agree Mayfield has a slight edge.
     
  12. cowboyethics344

    cowboyethics344 Federal Marshal

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    I am going to go ahead and say it. Rudolph is a better QB than mayfield. I am not saying it because mayfield goes to OU. Rudolph is a better pocket passer and will prosper in the NFL. Yes, mayfield is elusive and Johnny football like but he will get destroyed in the NFL. He is is a great college QB and that is it.
     
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  13. OSUMIKE17

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    This also isn't a discussion of "who is the best college QB." If you're talking about a QB overall, I'm saying both have intangibles the other doesn't have. Mayfield has intangibles that have served him well in college but won't at the next level. Rudolph lacks those intangibles but has some that will serve him better at the next level. Just because someone has a better career in college doesn't make them the better QB overall.

    Yeah, too bad...you know, since I already said "that's football." Like I said, just wanted to see how it would have shaken out in better weather. That's all.


    This is rich. What other reason do you have? High school stats? Stars next to the kids names? Kool Aid speculation? Coaches hype? Am I missing anything that would lead anyone outside of Norman to objectionally believe the running game will be "elite?"


    So again, instead of providing actual evidence for the receivers and passing game being elite you're going back to the speculation well.

    No actual receiver performance to fall back on. No actual concrete #1 receiver. Just, "we'll be elite because Lincoln Riley calls plays and Baker throws balls." Okay, but someone has to run the routes correctly and catch the balls being thrown. And despite the fact that neither of those rather pesky stipulations has been proven by any of the receivers, you are absolutely certain the passing game will be "elite."

    Okay, guy. Good chat.
     
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  14. NYC Poke

    NYC Poke The Veil of Ignorance
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    Heh. I'm sure he's been given far more than that.
     
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  15. cowboyethics344

    cowboyethics344 Federal Marshal

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    About to say I thought they were excited about Vince Young and we saw how that turned out. He would be a white Vince Young and he would probably fail just as much
     
  16. OSUMIKE17

    OSUMIKE17 Property of The Oklahoman and NewsOk.com
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    ThisArousesMe.emoji
     
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  17. jobob85

    jobob85 Alcoholistic Sage
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    And showered with love.
     
  18. Rob B.

    Rob B. I'm......Batman.
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    I don't have any desire to play "just the tip" with Baker Mayfield...
     
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  19. OSU79

    OSU79 Territorial Marshal
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    yeah, I bet you say that to all the QB's
     
  20. Midnight Toker

    Midnight Toker Territorial Marshal

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    Actually Ou really lost to Hill and that punt return. The only thing Gundy is afraid of is beating OU.


    Fair enough, we all have opinions and it's cool to share them. Is this not a college football discussion board? Seems appropriate to be discussing what these guys are doing right now, not projecting how they will be a year from now. Rudolph by all means is a better prospect at qb than Mayfield. But we've seen what Mayfield has done on the field and his numbers do all the talking, I certainly dont have to. If after the season you want to discuss their NFL future, that's a whole other discussion right there. But in college Mayfield will end up with more hardware.

    No, the intangibles dont necessarily make him better, but based on the results on the field, the stats he's put up, and the ole subjective eye test, Mayfield seems better. But again, maybe I am biased, and maybe you are biased. So taking the bias out of it,a bunch of people who arent Ou fans voting for post season awards including AA and All big 12 take my side on it. Is there much talk outside Stillwater that Rudolph is better? I'd think he'd be a Heisman candidate if he's actually better than Mayfield. And dont come at me with name recognition because some guy from Louisville who lost spectacularly at the end of the season won the Heisman.

    Fair enough, I'd love to have seen how the 2014 game shakes out if Stoops doesnt re-punt


    Firstly, I said the offense would be elite, not that it'll be an elite run game per se. For the record, I'm saying they'll be in the top 10, I guess I consider top 10 elite. Just the stuff we already know and have proven to start- Other reasons include having a legit Heisman candidate at qb. The nation's best, or one of the nation's best Olines. One of the nation's best OCs. Proven top notch talent evaluation. When was the last time OU struggled to find good running backs? Nobody knew Perine would be this good. The nice thing about it is that they dont need a Mixon type player to have a 1200 yard rusher, a quality D1 rb will be successful behind that line and pass game. I 100% believe they have every chance to be elite. Time will tell though.

    For receivers, it's more speculatory. but last year was too, nobody knew westbrook would break open like that. They only had one really good receiver last year, who received 1524 yards. Mayfield distributed another ~2500 to people not named Westbrook. No need for a concrete #1 wr if you can distribute it and play by committee, which is a lot easier to do with a stud offensive line who gives your qb time to find the open receiver. You keep simplifying my posts. First it was that the offense will be elite because the coaches are fired up about some unproven rbs. Then you furthered tried to simplify by suggesting my argument comes down to "because LR calls plays and Baker throws balls". Two gross simplifications, and I made no such statements. Who is to say Ou doesnt have anyone on campus right now who cant run routes and catch balls? now youre stepping straight into hyperbole.
     

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