George Floyd

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poknround

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I dont think the guy murdered Floyd. I think he was doing what he felt was necessary to restrain him based on how he was trained to handle these situations. I think he could have reassessed the type and level of restraint necessary about 3 to 4 minutes in. Murder conviction worthy? No. Lose your badge worthy? Absolutely.
 

OSUCowboy787

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I don't think that there were any big revelations from the bodycam video that was released. It primarily just verified what was in the police report. That could be important because many people were disputing the fact that he resisted arrest prior to being detained on the ground.

From a legal standpoint, it appears that the police officer's actions were justified up until the point where he kept his knee on his neck after he stopped resisting arrest. I don't like the use of the neck restraint at all in this situation, but you can't blame the officer for doing something that's allowed in their department's rules & regulations.

There's no doubt that keeping his knee over his neck was a reckless act that contributed to his death, but does that constitute 2nd degree murder? Someone smarter than me will have to figure that out. I hope that he doesn't end up walking because prosecutors overreached on the charges.
This i think was the crucial mistake of the prosecutor. They appeased the mob by charging him with something that would be VERY hard to prove imo. The chances of him walking on the current charges are MUCH greater than if they would have charged him more appropriately based on the evidence.
 
Oct 30, 2007
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I feel like saying there’s no doubt is way too strong. It sure looks like the guy was a ticking time bomb with the drugs he was taking and his otherwise poor health. Him having a manic episode because he knew he had been caught and was headed to jail may have just been unavoidable. He could have just as easily died sitting in the back of the patrol car. We just don’t know.

Also, I thought the neck restraint wasn’t allowed in their department? Am I wrong on that?
It's my understanding that Floyd essentially died from lack of bloodflow to the brain. Compression of the carotid artery in the neck for an extended period of time would've contributed to this regardless of whether or not it was the primary cause of death. That's why both the regular & independent autopsy reports ruled his death as a homicide.

The city of Minneapolis allows the use of neck restraint for someone that is actively resisting arrest. He should've removed his knee from his neck once he was compliant though.
Minneapolis Policy & Procedure Manual - Use of Force

 
Sep 22, 2011
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It's my understanding that Floyd essentially died from lack of bloodflow to the brain. Compression of the carotid artery in the neck for an extended period of time would've contributed to this regardless of whether or not it was the primary cause of death. That's why both the regular & independent autopsy reports ruled his death as a homicide.

The city of Minneapolis allows the use of neck restraint for someone that is actively resisting arrest. He should've removed his knee from his neck once he was detained on the ground though.
Minneapolis Policy & Procedure Manual - Use of Force

From the beginning i said, illegal use of force? Yes. Manslaughter? Yes. Murder 2? No way. They have to prove, beyond doubt, that what he was doing was meant to kill. Very tough hill to climb, honestly I hope they plead down to negligent homicide or something like that. I cant imagine them getting a conviction with their current charges. But what do I know.
 

olderschool

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That cop murdered Floyd. And he VERY MUCH liked doing it. The cop had 17 previous complaints for EXCESSIVE USE OF FORCE.
But y'all go ahead and make excuses for the POS.
 
May 31, 2007
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It's my understanding that Floyd essentially died from lack of bloodflow to the brain. Compression of the carotid artery in the neck for an extended period of time would've contributed to this regardless of whether or not it was the primary cause of death. That's why both the regular & independent autopsy reports ruled his death as a homicide.

The city of Minneapolis allows the use of neck restraint for someone that is actively resisting arrest. He should've removed his knee from his neck once he was compliant though.
Minneapolis Policy & Procedure Manual - Use of Force

I just went back through the autopsy and I didn’t see anything about blood flow to the brain. It essentially says the cause of death is cardiac arrest with complications due to being restrained. It also seems to indicate there were zero injuries to the neck, internal and external. Unless I missed something, I think the narrative that the cop was driving his knee into Floyd for 8+ minutes is false. I don’t think you could do that and not cause any injuries. You could however place your knee with very little or no pressure on someone’s neck so that if they began to fight you could quickly apply pressure to subdue them. It looks to me like this is much more likely than the narrative out there.

I do think Floyd being restrained contributed to his death but I don’t think it was due to the physical trauma but rather the emotional & mental trauma he was going through knowing he was headed to jail. Is that the cop’s fault? I honestly don’t know how to answer that. It sure didn’t seem like Floyd was acting like someone that you would trust to let up and act calmly. So maybe restraint was the best course of action. I’m just not sure tbh.
 
Sep 22, 2011
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That cop murdered Floyd. And he VERY MUCH liked doing it. The cop had 17 previous complaints for EXCESSIVE USE OF FORCE.
But y'all go ahead and make excuses for the POS.
I dont think anyone is saying that it wasn’t excessive use of force, or that he should not be fired and go to jail. All i am saying is they reached on the murder 2 charge because of public pressure, and with this video it makes it very difficult for the prosecution to prove that that this death was intentional
 
Oct 30, 2007
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I just went back through the autopsy and I didn’t see anything about blood flow to the brain. It essentially says the cause of death is cardiac arrest with complications due to being restrained. It also seems to indicate there were zero injuries to the neck, internal and external. Unless I missed something, I think the narrative that the cop was driving his knee into Floyd for 8+ minutes is false. I don’t think you could do that and not cause any injuries. You could however place your knee with very little or no pressure on someone’s neck so that if they began to fight you could quickly apply pressure to subdue them. It looks to me like this is much more likely than the narrative out there.

I do think Floyd being restrained contributed to his death but I don’t think it was due to the physical trauma but rather the emotional & mental trauma he was going through knowing he was headed to jail. Is that the cop’s fault? I honestly don’t know how to answer that. It sure didn’t seem like Floyd was acting like someone that you would trust to let up and act calmly. So maybe restraint was the best course of action. I’m just not sure tbh.
The official cause of death on the autopsy report was: Cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, & neck compression. It's my novice understanding that his heart had stopped working properly and it wasn't supplying adequate blood flow. The lack of blood flow & oxygen to his brain led to him falling unconscious and ultimately his death. The neck compression probably didn't cause the problem, but I'm sure it contributed to some extent.
 
May 31, 2007
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The official cause of death on the autopsy report was: Cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, & neck compression. It's my novice understanding that his heart had stopped working properly and it wasn't supplying adequate blood flow. The lack of blood flow & oxygen to his brain led to him falling unconscious and ultimately his death. The neck compression probably didn't cause the problem, but I'm sure it contributed to some extent.
You are right, it does say neck compression in the header. I missed that. But I don’t see that anywhere in the body of the report. I still don’t see anything about blood flow to his brain. Where is that at in the autopsy?
 

NotOnTV

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Just because a mob applies pressure for a murder charge, does not mean it is in fact the appropriate charge. And you have to be a real dumbass to think Chauvin did this with the express intent of snuffing out his life.
 

ramases2112

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That cop murdered Floyd. And he VERY MUCH liked doing it. The cop had 17 previous complaints for EXCESSIVE USE OF FORCE.
But y'all go ahead and make excuses for the POS.
You should report your findings to the police. They would very much want to know how and where you obtained such valuable insight into the officers mindset.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 
Oct 30, 2007
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You are right, it does say neck compression in the header. I missed that. But I don’t see that anywhere in the body of the report. I still don’t see anything about blood flow to his brain. Where is that at in the autopsy?
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/sudden-cardiac-arrest/symptoms-causes/syc-20350634
When sudden cardiac arrest occurs, reduced blood flow to your brain causes unconsciousness. If your heart rhythm doesn't rapidly return to normal, brain damage occurs and death results.

That isn't from the autopsy report, it's from my novice understanding of how cardiac arrest works.
 
May 31, 2007
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Just because a mob applies pressure for a murder charge, does not mean it is in fact the appropriate charge. And you have to be a real dumbass to think Chauvin did this with the express intent of snuffing out his life.
I’m reading the autopsy from my phone which is admittedly not the most ideal way to do it. I wish I could do an easy search & find to make sure I’m not missing anything, but it appears like the body of the report doesn’t support the cause of death conclusion. It’s almost like when a writer writes the story but the editor picks a misleading headline. Very strange.
 
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https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/sudden-cardiac-arrest/symptoms-causes/syc-20350634
When sudden cardiac arrest occurs, reduced blood flow to your brain causes unconsciousness. If your heart rhythm doesn't rapidly return to normal, brain damage occurs and death results.

That isn't from the autopsy report, it's from my novice understanding of how cardiac arrest works.
Does the autopsy mention brain damage? If so, you could be on to something. I don’t recall seeing that however.
 
Nov 8, 2007
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Just because a mob applies pressure for a murder charge, does not mean it is in fact the appropriate charge. And you have to be a real dumbass to think Chauvin did this with the express intent of snuffing out his life.
This is very similar to the charges brought against Zimmerman.

I got to thinking about this issue and it is kind of ironic...

- A bad event happens where an obvious asshole kills someone
- It seems like 99% of people agree that the victim shouldn't have died, the accused is an asshole, and that justice needs to happen
- Racial lines were crossed in the crime and it catches fire and the event goes viral
- We have massive protests and calls for justice - some places see riots
- Feeling the heat, prosecutors over charge - Public opinion forces a swift investigation because "justice needs to happen" "corrupt LE agencies sweeping just another death of a black male under the rug" "manslaughter? that isn't enough! charge more!" "this is a prime example of systemic racism...let the white guy go with a slap on the wrist..." etc
- The DA fails to meet the criteria to convict on the charges brought
- Asshole killer goes free
- People get upset about systemic racism letting a killer go free because of the color of his skin

Society is upset about systemic racism, but in this instance, society is causing it...not the system.
 
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oks10

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This is very similar to the charges brought against Zimmerman.
It's dang near an identical situation. They shoot for the moon on the charges to make the mob happy but with no realistic chance of being successful. Then the mob can go on about how corrupt and broken the system is... Charge them with something you actually have enough evidence to convict with if you want these people to be found guilty...
 
May 31, 2007
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This is very similar to the charges brought against Zimmerman.

I got to thinking about this issue and it is kind of ironic...

- A bad event happens where an obvious asshole kills someone
- It seems like 99% of people agree that the victim shouldn't have died, the accused is an asshole, and that justice needs to happen
- Racial lines were crossed in the crime and it catches fire and the event goes viral
- We have massive protests and calls for justice - some places see riots
- Feeling the heat, prosecutors over charge - Public opinion forces a swift investigation because "justice needs to happen" "corrupt LE agencies sweeping just another death of a black male under the rug" "manslaughter? that isn't enough! charge more!" "this is a prime example of systemic racism...let the white guy go with a slap on the wrist..." etc
- The DA fails to meet the criteria to convict on the charges brought
- Asshole killer goes free
- People get upset about systemic racism letting a killer go free because of the color of his skin

Society is upset about systemic racism, but in this instance, society is causing it...not the system.
I don’t think I disagree with anything you wrote but I think you have to add that both Martin & Floyd were highly culpable for their own deaths and that was intentionally left out of the narrative. Also the media’s portrayal of Martin as a little kid and Floyd as just a guy minding his own business should be a part of that list. Perhaps if the whole picture was shown a lot of this could be avoided.
 
Nov 8, 2007
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I don’t think I disagree with anything you wrote but I think you have to add that both Martin & Floyd were highly culpable for their own deaths and that was intentionally left out of the narrative. Also the media’s portrayal of Martin as a little kid and Floyd as just a guy minding his own business should be a part of that list. Perhaps if the whole picture was shown a lot of this could be avoided.
Yes, those could be added as it proves even more that we (society) are forcing systemic racism to happen.

It's been so long, but I don't remember what you are referring to in Martin being culpable for his own death...refresh my memory?
 
Nov 6, 2010
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Just because a mob applies pressure for a murder charge, does not mean it is in fact the appropriate charge. And you have to be a real dumbass to think Chauvin did this with the express intent of snuffing out his life.
Yea, I tend to agree. It seems pretty clear that Charvin didn't give a damn about his life, but that's a long way from intent. I sure don't know exactly how the 2nd degree murder statute in Minn is written, but it seems like a tough one to prove.
 
May 31, 2007
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Yes, those could be added as it proves even more that we (society) are forcing systemic racism to happen.

It's been so long, but I don't remember what you are referring to in Martin being culpable for his own death...refresh my memory?
Wasn’t he on top of and attacking Zimmerman and pounding his head into the sidewalk when Zimmerman used deadly force? I think most agreed that GZ’s use of force in that situation was warranted. It’s how he played a part in the escalation before that where he deserves criticism.