Lordy, add St. Peters Sweet 16 to 17 long years and counting

[LS1 Z28]

I sure hope (and frankly, expect) that Boynton is going to eventually join Mr. Iba and Eddie in the elite coaches of Oklahoma State history.

I appreciate your optimism, but I can't say that I share it. What have you seen from his actual coaching ability that gives you the expectation he'll become an elite coach?

 

[OSU79]

Right now my biggest hope is that HCMB will turn into a reasonable facsimile of Leonard Hamilton in the next couple of years. When LH was at osu he was viewed as a great recruiter and a below average bench coach. At FSU he has become respected as a very good coach.

 

[Chunks]

As a lifelong OSU fan who grew up going to the old GIA and fell in love with the early 2000s teams, it saddens me to see "this." i'm not talking about the product on the floor; I'm talking about why y'all care.

We pay millions and suck. And then we lose out on the best football coordinator we've ever had because we can't afford to pay him $500,000 more. I'd rather be in a position to compete with the best in football. We have to choose....

Going forward our athletic program will make about half as much money as the SEC and BIG. We just can't affford to be nationally competitive across the board. I choose to be great at football or die trying. And I (strongly) think any OSU fan who disagrees is holding us back.

You sound like the CNN of Sooners fans. “Only one sport matters and if you don’t think like me, you are holding the program back”

 

[teachum]

I think the basketball ship has sailed. Football, baseball, softball and golf are where it's at. I'm not sure where wrestling is going.

Well if the rumors were true, he came really close to getting Self, so I really don't think you can fairly say Holder didn't give basketball his best effort. Add to that Self's endorsement of Ford, it just didn't work out for us.

 

[crimsonhater]

Basketball is all about consistency. We have not had it at all. Discipline, injuries, asst coaching changes, Cade's one year, NCAA ban etc. These are not excuses these are truths. This season is weird. One game the alpha is Ice, the next Cisse, the next Avery the next Kalib, the next Bryce then the other Bryce. One game Avery scores 30+ pts the next he scores 6. I feel at times they play really hard when their confidence is high. I feel we make dumb lazy mistakes which deflates the whole team. A guy airballs, or softly lobs a pass into the paint that gets stolen or a power forward dribbles up the court and gets it stolen etc. These are learning plays. Our IQ is not very good across the board. I agree that Eddie played 2-3 bench guys and that was it. Back up PG, backup center and a stud defender. Bringing in Cisse moved Kalib to the bench. Keylan's lack of defensive effort at times moves him to the bench. Avery's turnovers to the bench. BT's hot shooting puts Ice on the bench etc. The roles have not been defined because no one is consistent. He made the big threat then everyone travelled and no one has seemed to be benched. Guys like Tony Allen and Marcus Dove respected Eddie so much they did not want to mess up. Yes turnovers happen but if you loafed down the court after a TO, an instant snap TO and bench sit. Idk anything about the Asst coaches but there doesn't seem to be much fear in players. I personally think it all boils down to having Ice and Avery and neither of them are complete PGs.

 

[jetman]

I sure hope (and frankly, expect) that Boynton is going to eventually join Mr. Iba and Eddie in the elite coaches of Oklahoma State history.

Yes, that would be great, but I'm not seeing it. I don't know how someone can watch our games and get the feeling that Boynton is a great game coach.

 

[CowboyHoopsPride]

I'm not doom and gloom. I like our coaches and I like our players. They fight, they defend, they go after loose balls.

If you look at this season, we have been 1 clutch bucket/free throw/call away from several more Ws. Right now, there are no easy games in the conference to make us feel better about things. Heck, the last place team, Iowa State, is 13-0 in nonconference.

We need to shoot better or add a shooting PG. Our bigs are athletic but can add some mass. We are not THAT far away.

I agree - we're 2-3 plays a game away from a completely different outlook. However, it's the same 2-3 plays by the same 2-3 guys that have us in this position. That is the frustrating part.

 

[osucowboy80]

Basketball is all about consistency. We have not had it at all. Discipline, injuries, asst coaching changes, Cade's one year, NCAA ban etc. These are not excuses these are truths. This season is weird. One game the alpha is Ice, the next Cisse, the next Avery the next Kalib, the next Bryce then the other Bryce. One game Avery scores 30+ pts the next he scores 6. I feel at times they play really hard when their confidence is high. I feel we make dumb lazy mistakes which deflates the whole team. A guy airballs, or softly lobs a pass into the paint that gets stolen or a power forward dribbles up the court and gets it stolen etc. These are learning plays. Our IQ is not very good across the board. I agree that Eddie played 2-3 bench guys and that was it. Back up PG, backup center and a stud defender. Bringing in Cisse moved Kalib to the bench. Keylan's lack of defensive effort at times moves him to the bench. Avery's turnovers to the bench. BT's hot shooting puts Ice on the bench etc. The roles have not been defined because no one is consistent. He made the big threat then everyone travelled and no one has seemed to be benched. Guys like Tony Allen and Marcus Dove respected Eddie so much they did not want to mess up. Yes turnovers happen but if you loafed down the court after a TO, an instant snap TO and bench sit. Idk anything about the Asst coaches but there doesn't seem to be much fear in players. I personally think it all boils down to having Ice and Avery and neither of them are complete PGs.

This group just looks like a disorganized bunch of AAU guys. Any way you look at it, this comes back to HCMB. Either he's not recruiting the right guys for his system or he doesn't have a system and he's just recruiting whatever guys he can get. After five years, I still can't tell which is the case. Just preaching lock-down defense isn't enough.

 

[cowboyfan]

The day they hired Ford was the day the dribble died. Why Holder decided to not build us into a basketball and football school I will never understand.

I think it was on life support under Sean. The problems had actually begun with Eddie's 2005 #1 recruiting class. Only two guys from that group played 4 yrs. I recall Eddie saying "these guys just don't get it".

One went straight to the nba.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[CowboyHoopsPride]

Basketball is all about consistency. We have not had it at all. Discipline, injuries, asst coaching changes, Cade's one year, NCAA ban etc. These are not excuses these are truths. This season is weird. One game the alpha is Ice, the next Cisse, the next Avery the next Kalib, the next Bryce then the other Bryce. One game Avery scores 30+ pts the next he scores 6. I feel at times they play really hard when their confidence is high. I feel we make dumb lazy mistakes which deflates the whole team. A guy airballs, or softly lobs a pass into the paint that gets stolen or a power forward dribbles up the court and gets it stolen etc. These are learning plays. Our IQ is not very good across the board. I agree that Eddie played 2-3 bench guys and that was it. Back up PG, backup center and a stud defender. Bringing in Cisse moved Kalib to the bench. Keylan's lack of defensive effort at times moves him to the bench. Avery's turnovers to the bench. BT's hot shooting puts Ice on the bench etc. The roles have not been defined because no one is consistent. He made the big threat then everyone travelled and no one has seemed to be benched. Guys like Tony Allen and Marcus Dove respected Eddie so much they did not want to mess up. Yes turnovers happen but if you loafed down the court after a TO, an instant snap TO and bench sit. Idk anything about the Asst coaches but there doesn't seem to be much fear in players. I personally think it all boils down to having Ice and Avery and neither of them are complete PGs.

Very well said. I would add that we are not very tough. Physically or mentally. We have no tough guy/enforcer. We need dudes with attitude. I can handle losing when the other team knows we kicked their ass up and down the floor all night and they remember playing us even if they won. This year's team is soft. Soft as a baby's butt.

 

[CowboyHoopsPride]

This group just looks like a disorganized bunch of AAU guys. Any way you look at it, this comes back to HCMB. Either he's not recruiting the right guys for his system or he doesn't have a system and he's just recruiting whatever guys he can get. After five years, I still can't tell which is the case. Just preaching lock-down defense isn't enough.

I hate beating a dead horse or repeating things I've posted but I think you're nailing it. We don't have a system. We don't have an identity. "Let's Work" sounds good but it's not an identity. And in reality every team works hard. Even the bad ones.

 

[Alum in AZ]

Bench coaching is not HCMB's biggest strength yet. His recruiting is a proven strength and his engagement level is a proven strength. He's competing in the toughest conference in the country against multiple HOF and experienced coaches and has had massive headwinds his entire time here. I think we'd be foolish... let me rephrase that: FOOLISH! to even consider moving on at this point.

 

[aggiejet]

Bench coaching is not HCMB's biggest strength yet. His recruiting is a proven strength and his engagement level is a proven strength. He's competing in the toughest conference in the country against multiple HOF and experienced coaches and has had massive headwinds his entire time here. I think we'd be foolish... let me rephrase that: FOOLISH! to even consider moving on at this point.

So when do we start to see this greatness you are so sure of?

 

[donnieh]

So when do we start to see this greatness you are so sure of?

 

[dbt974s]

I think Boynton is too nice. He recruits players and treats them like his own kids, which is great and all, but it makes the team soft. He has bragged about how most everyone has stayed the course and only 1-2 guys he has recruited in the last couple of cycles have left for greener pastures…but I’m not sure that is a good thing. The roster needs revamped.

 

[oldguy]

He's beaten OU 4 times in a row and 6 out 9 times.. that would get him a free pass from a lot of fans. I think we should give him another shot without the specter of probation/bans/etc...

 

[crimsonhater]

Guys like Huggins, Self, Drew, Dixon, Weber & Beard are all HOF coaches. They take away our strengths week after week. Swarming MAM when he dribbles, forcing Ice to his left side. Dropping off on Ice because he can't shoot, allowing guys to shoot long range 3s because we can't make them consistently. Fouling us if we get a step on them because we shoot like 60% FTs. Strategies go into effect when playing against veteran coaches for many years. Unfortunately for us our inconsistency does not allow us to witness what we do to other teams. We let scrubs have 20+ point games against us when they avg 6ppg. We allow teams to come back waaay too easy when we build a lead. We never build leads. Always back and forth play. So much that is identifiable. I think we as fans hold a bunch of 18 & 19 yos to a Final Four "Eddie" standard and these kids are not 23 yo Tony Allens, John Lucas' or 27yo Daniel Bobik. Imagine if we have Cisse another 2-3 yrs? If we aren't winning by 20 or dominating teams then we get the "whoa is me" here we go again attitude which plagues all osu fans in every sport. Happened with Ford now happening again. Basketball has changed drastically.

 

[jetman]

Guys like Huggins, Self, Drew, Dixon, Weber & Beard are all HOF coaches. .

C'mon now. They don't just throw anyone in the HOF. Bruce Weber?

 

[Alum in AZ]

So when do we start to see this greatness you are so sure of?

Who knows. But for reference here are some selected and cherry-picked stats:
Eddie - 1st 8 years (5 w/Creighton, 3 w/Ark) - 2 NCAA appearances, 2 20-w seasons, 67% win percentage
Coach K - 1st 8 years (5 w/Army and 3 w/Duke) - No NCAA appearances, 2 20-w seasons, 51% win percentage
Scott Drew - 1st 6 years @Baylor - 1 NCAA appearance, 2 20-w seasons, 46% win percentage
Mike Boynton - 1st "4.8" years @osu - 1 NCAA appearance, 2 20-w seasons, 54% win percentage

 

[aggiejet]

Guys like Huggins, Self, Drew, Dixon, Weber & Beard are all HOF coaches. They take away our strengths week after week. Swarming MAM when he dribbles, forcing Ice to his left side. Dropping off on Ice because he can't shoot, allowing guys to shoot long range 3s because we can't make them consistently. Fouling us if we get a step on them because we shoot like 60% FTs. Strategies go into effect when playing against veteran coaches for many years. Unfortunately for us our inconsistency does not allow us to witness what we do to other teams. We let scrubs have 20+ point games against us when they avg 6ppg. We allow teams to come back waaay too easy when we build a lead. We never build leads. Always back and forth play. So much that is identifiable. I think we as fans hold a bunch of 18 & 19 yos to a Final Four "Eddie" standard and these kids are not 23 yo Tony Allens, John Lucas' or 27yo Daniel Bobik. Imagine if we have Cisse another 2-3 yrs? If we aren't winning by 20 or dominating teams then we get the "whoa is me" here we go again attitude which plagues all osu fans in every sport. Happened with Ford now happening again. Basketball has changed drastically.

I don’t see your point. Poke basketball is mediocre because we have young guys who arent coachable or we should have stuck with TF?