[NSFW] The GOAT rapper is alive!

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colb

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#61
I'm sorry, I wouldn't want my children to be 'saved' by eminem.

"Murder, murder, murder, and kill, kill, kill! "

"Need a backin' out this lady's Jag started blackin' out
Pulled the Mac-10 out, stuck it in her face
Shut ya ***kin' mouth before I blow the brain from out the back ya scalp
Drug her by her hair, smacked her up
Thinkin' ***k it, mug her while you're there, jacked her up
Stole her car, made a profit"


Sounds like a very intelligent and inspirational rapper to me...not.

As far as Tupac goes, sure he may have been a good rapper but some of the messages he portrayed were not beneficial to anyone.

I'll say what I've always said about Tupac's music..Tupac could take you to church, make you want to turn your life around, expose the conspiracies of society, and make you want to go and shoot up a club.

To summarize Tupac, he was a confused young man who grew up in a troubled life. He didn't overcome those things in which he knew were bad for his life, in fact he found himself immersed in things which he knew were wrong at the young age of 17 as in the video that you posted.

He had a tragic end to his life and his rapping ability should be remembered but he is by no means a good role model for today's youth.



Oh I'm sorry, I must have missed the part where anyone said that rappers were good role models. Rap is music. Like it or not... it's here to stay.

People watch violent movies all the time. Hell, most of the things that are rapped about and only heard on the album version of a song are played on regular television on a daily basis. It's all for entertainment value.

You're putting rap on a pedestal, and holding it to a higher set of standards than other forms of entertainment. Do you also believe games like Grand Theft Auto promote violence? Violent movies?

If anyone uses a popular musician as a role model, chances are pretty good that they picked a bad role model. But that's not the point of music, is it?
 

colb

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#62
By the way, before you judge me for defending rap... I also enjoy listening to Bob Segar, The Stanley Brothers, David Allan Coe, John Mellencamp, Journey, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Def Leppard, Blink182, Fleetwood Mac... the list goes on.
 

OSU_CC

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#63
Do you also believe games like Grand Theft Auto promote violence? Violent movies?

If anyone uses a popular musician as a role model, chances are pretty good that they picked a bad role model. But that's not the point of music, is it?
Yes and yes. Both promote the message of violence.

The point of music is an expression art. It is most commonly used to communicate messages and ideas.

So yes, the messages and ideas are important not only to me but to anyone who isn't simply listening to music for the sole purpose of "it sounds good to my ears".

All arts and media fall under these same critiques. I don't believe any violence is good violence. However, I am also able to distinguish Iron Man taking down a bad guy versus Eminem AKA slim shady sticking a gun in a lady's mouth and pulling a trigger.

Also, if you don't think Tupac isn't one of the most common role models in our society then you my friend are naive.
 

OSU_CC

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#64
Good Lord.

It was analogy. Basically saying that if kids do the things that some rappers say, it's the parents fault for not montoring their kid. Which is true.

And try listening to "Mockingbird", "When I'm Gone", and "Beautiful" for starters. Not all of Eminem's songs have the lyrics like the one you posted above.
No one said Eminem's songs are all bad messages but any one of his CD's have songs with a mixture of hate filled messages and inspirational, hope filled messages.

It also shows that most of these rappers (at least Eminem) can differentiate between hate/violence and love/hope. So they "know" good from bad yet most of them willingly choose to continue talking about hate and violence because that is why their music is bought because that is what our society especially our youth see as cool.
 

Lafferty Daniel

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#65
No one said Eminem's songs are all bad messages but any one of his CD's have songs with a mixture of hate filled messages and inspirational, hope filled messages.

It also shows that most of these rappers (at least Eminem) can differentiate between hate/violence and love/hope. So they "know" good from bad yet most of them willingly choose to continue talking about hate and violence because that is why their music is bought because that is what our society especially our youth see as cool.
Or because that's what they grew up around and know the best. You don't see Kanye talking about that stuff, because he didn't grow up around it. But he's one of the best selling rappers around.
 

colb

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#66
Yes and yes. Both promote the message of violence.

The point of music is an expression art. It is most commonly used to communicate messages and ideas.

So yes, the messages and ideas are important not only to me but to anyone who isn't simply listening to music for the sole purpose of "it sounds good to my ears".

All arts and media fall under these same critiques. I don't believe any violence is good violence. However, I am also able to distinguish Iron Man taking down a bad guy versus Eminem AKA slim shady sticking a gun in a lady's mouth and pulling a trigger.

Also, if you don't think Tupac isn't one of the most common role models in our society then you my friend are naive.
Video games promote violence? Well you pretty much just summed up everything I need to know about your stand on digital/audio entertainment.

You're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine. I'm glad we're able to express our voice freely. Because there are some not-so-intelligent people out there who feel the same way as you, and believe that video games such as GTA, and music such as Eminem should be banned.

If I go jump off a bridge several times in a video game, that doesn't mean I'm going to do it in real life. Just because a rapper talks about driving his car off a bridge on his album, doesn't mean I'm going to do it in real life. There's a difference between fantasy and reality. If a parent doesn't do their job of instilling "right vs. wrong" to a child, then that kid will grow up and do bad things REGARDLESS of what music he listens to or what video games he plays. That is a fact.
 

OSU_CC

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#67
Video games promote violence? Well you pretty much just summed up everything I need to know about your stand on digital/audio entertainment.

You're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine. I'm glad we're able to express our voice freely. Because there are some not-so-intelligent people out there who feel the same way as you, and believe that video games such as GTA, and music such as Eminem should be banned.

If I go jump off a bridge several times in a video game, that doesn't mean I'm going to do it in real life. Just because a rapper talks about driving his car off a bridge on his album, doesn't mean I'm going to do it in real life. There's a difference between fantasy and reality. If a parent doesn't do their job of instilling "right vs. wrong" to a child, then that kid will grow up and do bad things REGARDLESS of what music he listens to or what video games he plays. That is a fact.
Whoa there. You just took a MASSIVE logical leap...So now believing that some violent video games "promote" violence = banning violent video games? Wrong!!!

The issue with your last paragraph that I have is that it takes a long period of time for a child to grow up and have a good understanding of right vs. wrong. When the child is battling between popular media/music versus his parents at the young ages of 5-10. It makes it hard to get the child to develop the way a parent would probably want.

Also, this is even true for teenagers to an even greater degree. It's hard for parents to continue to reinforce good societal values while the students are hearing and playing things which say the exact opposite. This leads to kids growing up with a distorted view of reality. Is playing a violent video game or listening to a violent song going to make someone go out and do something violent? Heck no, that is a choice made by an individual. But it certainly isn't saying NOT to and it certainly isn't portraying good values. However, individuals develop their minds over time and things like media and art have a major impact on how they feel and react to certain things, that is the reality of it and things like violent music/video games could be a factor in how someone feels about violence...and could impact on the decisions they make in the future.

BTW, I grew up in the GTA days (I was younger than 17 when I played them) and I have owned a Tupac, eminem, and NWA cds which all have messages that promote violence, degrading women, and gangs.

But just because I listen to those things does not mean I would want a child under the age of 16 of mine listening to them. I also don't think that just because I was a semi-fan of those things and enjoyed them does not mean they all of a sudden don't have a message that is overall bad for society.

I grew up with parents who showed me what is good and bad. I grew up in a family that instilled values but sadly that isn't true for all children. They grow up and all they know is what Tupac tells them in his lyrics, what GTA shows them they can do in video games, and many other sources of media/art that may not be beneficial to their view of reality and values.
 

OrangeAggie

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#69
Oh I'm sorry, I must have missed the part where anyone said that rappers were good role models.
Oh, I'm sorry, I missed the part where responsible adults got to choose who kids idolize and emulate as role models.


Whoa there. You just took a MASSIVE logical leap...So now believing that some violent video games "promote" violence = banning violent video games? Wrong!!!

The issue with your last paragraph that I have is that it takes a long period of time for a child to grow up and have a good understanding of right vs. wrong. When the child is battling between popular media/music versus his parents at the young ages of 5-10. It makes it hard to get the child to develop the way a parent would probably want.

Also, this is even true for teenagers to an even greater degree. It's hard for parents to continue to reinforce good societal values while the students are hearing and playing things which say the exact opposite. This leads to kids growing up with a distorted view of reality. Is playing a violent video game or listening to a violent song going to make someone go out and do something violent? Heck no, that is a choice made by an individual. But it certainly isn't saying NOT to and it certainly isn't portraying good values. However, individuals develop their minds over time and things like media and art have a major impact on how they feel and react to certain things, that is the reality of it and things like violent music/video games could be a factor in how someone feels about violence...and could impact on the decisions they make in the future.

BTW, I grew up in the GTA days (I was younger than 17 when I played them) and I have owned a Tupac, eminem, and NWA cds which all have messages that promote violence, degrading women, and gangs.

But just because I listen to those things does not mean I would want a child under the age of 16 of mine listening to them. I also don't think that just because I was a semi-fan of those things and enjoyed them does not mean they all of a sudden don't have a message that is overall bad for society.

I grew up with parents who showed me what is good and bad. I grew up in a family that instilled values but sadly that isn't true for all children. They grow up and all they know is what Tupac tells them in his lyrics, what GTA shows them they can do in video games, and many other sources of media/art that may not be beneficial to their view of reality and values.

Good post, but if i were you I'd just give up. Debating with the rap fans in this thread is tantamount to debating with a 5th grader. They're just going to put words in your mouth and use sarcasm to avoid answering the real questions posed.
 

colb

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#70
Oh, I'm sorry, I missed the part where responsible adults got to choose who kids idolize and emulate as role models.
Parents may not be able to choose role models for their kids, but they sure have the ability to limit what their kids come in contact with. I'd say my father did a pretty damn good job. Once I reached a certain age, he pretty much sat me down and opened up the world to me. By the time I was able to listen to the music of my choice, watch the movies of my choice, I had a good understanding that it was all for entertainment. I like to think that I turned out okay.


Good post, but if i were you I'd just give up. Debating with the rap fans in this thread is tantamount to debating with a 5th grader. They're just going to put words in your mouth and use sarcasm to avoid answering the real questions posed.
This paragraph could really turn this thread in the wrong direction.

I'm not a rap fanatic. I do enjoy an occasional playlist once or twice a month. But that's about it. In fact, my entire rap library consists of about 6 artists. As I said before, I like a wide variety of music, including bluegrass.

The point I've been trying to make is that rap is just music. If you're willing to go out and commit murder, then I'd be willing to bet that your choice in music is not where you made a wrong turn.
 

HeartLike_JohnStarks

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#71
God mama there goes that politics and social commentary again bout rap music everytime its brough up.

But Lord willing I'm gonna have one final say.

Is Tupac a role model and matyr to some people? hell yeah b.

Did his songs "promote" violence , drug hustlin and women degradation? Yes......but also not directly like some others right now.....
This is what people like him (and me to some extent) grew up with . I grew up in an urban ghetto/hood/slum, so I can also relate to some extent. But not everyone who grew up in the hood had drug dealing parents, came from a single family household and participated in stealing/hustlin/violence.

So is he a good role model? No, but certainly you can do worse. Atleast amidst all of the "bad" imagery he conveyed, most of them had messages of making some social commentary and providing some critical critique and also relating and giving hope to people in situations he used to be in.

But is it the reason the urban neighborhoods are the way they are? NO. Drugs and extreme poverty already existed well before. Gangsta rap have served to popularize and make it worse though.

Really, what it all comes down to are the parents/adult figure in a kid's life. Its up to the parents to filter what the child listens to. But in the grand scheme of things, even if they DON'T listen to a lot of the gangsta rap, all they need to do is look outside their windows and that alone negates all of that. Even the school and infrastructures all around them mimic that. Trust me. Now imagine growing up to the aforementioned major , infamous cities that are the meccas of these type of things FIRMLY ENTRENCHED, and you would be somewhat proud if they can atleast turn like Tupac and manage to make a living
 

HeartLike_JohnStarks

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#72
Point being, yes, Tupac ain't a good role model. But you can do much worse , and he alone didn't cause a major transformation to suddenly make things worse. So don't go blaming him.
That's the reason I brought up the Beastie Boys . People like to give them a pass as just being frat boy rap, but they were one of the first to popularize sex, drugs, and even violence before people like Tupac ever came along (and just for the record, they're also one of my top favorite of all time)


But don't go painting a broad brush over all rap artists. That's ignorant and borderline racism.
 

HeartLike_JohnStarks

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#73
I will agree with OrangeAggie that those kids need to look up to black figures beyond just rap artists, like Neil.

But like I said, the culture and infrasture is already so entrenched, that most of them have NO CHOICE but either take to sports or rap as avenues for getting out of their situation. Believe it or not, some of them have legit intentions of trying to look out for their family and get a better life, not just going at it for the fame, money, and girls
 

Donnyboy

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#75
Tupac was 10 years ahead of his time..... Sadly in that ten years rap became awful. I'm not talking from a good or not good for kids perspective I'm saying it sucks now.