O'Colly fires editor for anti-mask editorial

  • You are viewing Orangepower as a Guest. To start new threads, reply to posts, or participate in polls or contests - you must register. Registration is free and easy. Click Here to register.
Sep 23, 2010
1,795
1,183
1,743
#41
We’ve covered this. I shared clear data on it. This is wrong.
So if I don't cover my mouth and nose with the mask, it still serves the same protection? That's what you're saying with your statement. I said if they aren't N95 (many masks college kids are wearing are almost like a t-shirt) and they aren't worn properly (which about 80% of college students wear improperly). Show me your data that shows a masks not worn over the face and nose works. I'm not saying masks don't work at all. I'm saying they have their issues which is why someone very compromised should consider a different avenue of instruction.

Your rigidness alone shows you don't respect and believe science, just the science that aligns with your beliefs. Doctors and scientists disagree on all this stuff. They all have their own theories and data to back up their own statements. Maybe you should show an ounce of humility on what you know to be true....because it just might change as more information comes in. That's already happened multiple times. Fortunately, we've had doctors and scientists throughout time that have been willing to go against the grain and discover all new kinds of ideas and revelations.

Look, the gal should have just put the mask on for the teacher. She was petulant in her follow up editorial. But she does have a leg to stand on legally. If the teacher is at this great of risk, he/she needs to find another avenue to teach the class other than in person at the moment if he/she fears this much for his/her life. It would be nice for the student to put the mask on (and wear it properly) if asked by someone who believes they are compromised.
 
May 31, 2007
2,101
486
1,713
OK & CA
#42
The science has made it clear that if we're not all wearing N95 masks and wearing them properly, protection is very spotty.
Yeah but wearing cloth or paper masks isn’t about protection and it never was. But this editor got exactly what she was looking for I’m sure. I doubt she cares that she was fired.
 

TheMonkey

Territorial Marshal
A/V Subscriber
Sep 16, 2004
6,629
2,843
1,743
47
DFW
#43
So if I don't cover my mouth and nose with the mask, it still serves the same protection? That's what you're saying with your statement. I said if they aren't N95 (many masks college kids are wearing are almost like a t-shirt) and they aren't worn properly (which about 80% of college students wear improperly). Show me your data that shows a masks not worn over the face and nose works. I'm not saying masks don't work at all. I'm saying they have their issues which is why someone very compromised should consider a different avenue of instruction.

Your rigidness alone shows you don't respect and believe science, just the science that aligns with your beliefs. Doctors and scientists disagree on all this stuff. They all have their own theories and data to back up their own statements. Maybe you should show an ounce of humility on what you know to be true....because it just might change as more information comes in. That's already happened multiple times. Fortunately, we've had doctors and scientists throughout time that have been willing to go against the grain and discover all new kinds of ideas and revelations.

Look, the gal should have just put the mask on for the teacher. She was petulant in her follow up editorial. But she does have a leg to stand on legally. If the teacher is at this great of risk, he/she needs to find another avenue to teach the class other than in person at the moment if he/she fears this much for his/her life. It would be nice for the student to put the mask on (and wear it properly) if asked by someone who believes they are compromised.
The professor asked the student to wear her mask properly. I was addressing masks in general. Regarding proper use, seatbelts don’t work when worn improperly. Yet we still have seatbelt “mandates.” I would also assume that the data from most studies includes people who wear their masks improperly. The bottom line was that even a basic, widely-available surgical mask stops droplets that transmit most Covid particles.

The funny thing is that I’m arguing masks are effective, which would help us continue to have in-person classes, operating businesses, etc. Meanwhile, if we took your objections to their logical ends, we would need to shut down again. Also, I’m sure most (non-a-hole) students would rather wear a mask during class than have to take it remotely.

Side note: I don’t think my humility is the issue here.
 

CocoCincinnati

Federal Marshal
Feb 7, 2007
16,605
17,235
1,743
Tulsa, OK
#44
People have dug their heels in so deep on several of these issues that they make big deals out of little deals.
And unfortunately, incidents like this only cause people to dig in their heels even more. I have a friend who adamantly refuses to get vaccinated because he thinks all dissenting opinions and alternate theories on this pandemic are being silenced....this is only going to reinforce his view.

One things for sure, if she wasn't forced to resign, I'd never even know about this, so by firing her, they've kind of given her the spotlight that she was most likely searching for with this stunt it in the first place. Funny how that always seems to work out that way.
 
Sep 23, 2010
1,795
1,183
1,743
#45
The professor asked the student to wear her mask properly. I was addressing masks in general. Regarding proper use, seatbelts don’t work when worn improperly. Yet we still have seatbelt “mandates.” I would also assume that the data from most studies includes people who wear their masks improperly. The bottom line was that even a basic, widely-available surgical mask stops droplets that transmit most Covid particles.

The funny thing is that I’m arguing masks are effective, which would help us continue to have in-person classes, operating businesses, etc. Meanwhile, if we took your objections to their logical ends, we would need to shut down again. Also, I’m sure most (non-a-hole) students would rather wear a mask during class than have to take it remotely.

Side note: I don’t think my humility is the issue here.
I don't have objections to masks or vaccines. I wear a mask when asked. I was vaccinated in March even though I am relatively young and healthy. So I don't know where you are with my objections.

Humility is the issue. I am humble enough to abide with masks and vaccines. But I'm not arrogant enough to believe that this will surely end the problem. And I'm not so arrogant to condemn and blame others for the pandemic who think differently than me. Humility is the issue on the other side when they claim masks and vaccines don't work at all. That's very arrogant as well. We got a major humility problem in this country.

Best I can tell from what's happening is this thing is going to run it's course, and we can't stop it. We can only mitigate it to certain extents. And we are certain those extents have limitations as well so far.
 

TheMonkey

Territorial Marshal
A/V Subscriber
Sep 16, 2004
6,629
2,843
1,743
47
DFW
#46
I don't have objections to masks or vaccines. I wear a mask when asked. I was vaccinated in March even though I am relatively young and healthy. So I don't know where you are with my objections.

Humility is the issue. I am humble enough to abide with masks and vaccines. But I'm not arrogant enough to believe that this will surely end the problem. And I'm not so arrogant to condemn and blame others for the pandemic who think differently than me. Humility is the issue on the other side when they claim masks and vaccines don't work at all. That's very arrogant as well. We got a major humility problem in this country.

Best I can tell from what's happening is this thing is going to run it's course, and we can't stop it. We can only mitigate it to certain extents. And we are certain those extents have limitations as well so far.
Yet you assume I am arrogant and I believe masks and the vaccine will end the pandemic. I have never said that. My primary driver for encouraging masks + social distancing indoors and vaccines is to help mitigate the hospitalizations. The healthcare system has been overwhelmed by this thing and I don’t think this is too much to ask to help abate the problem.

My issue with your statements has been your insistence that masks don’t work unless they are N95s. That simply isn’t true. I’ve backed it with studies, not my opinion. It’s not arrogance.

I also think you’re showing a lack of the humility you’re so proud of, when you make decisive statements that the professor should stay home instead of requiring students to wear masks (properly). Like I said, I don’t get that and I feel moving to a remote class is more drastic than requiring masks.
 
Sep 23, 2010
1,795
1,183
1,743
#47
My issue with your statements has been your insistence that masks don’t work unless they are N95s. That simply isn’t true. I’ve backed it with studies, not my opinion. It’s not arrogance.
And not worn properly....you always forget that part of my very first statement to make it easier for you. I would also like to see the effectiveness of N-95 masks vs cloth masks. I'm guessing your studies would back up my claim that N-95s are more effective. So, my initial statement would not be "This is wrong. I have shared clear data on this." This is the statement by you I would say lacked humility as it seemed very absolute even though it didn't address my initial statement.

Which by the way, the studies you speak of are mere conclusions based on the trends the data they show. They are not facts as we do not have all the information yet. They are still working their way through the scientific method on this one. And that is where I believe we lack humility. We show a few studies, and say "See, this is fact"....when we are just at the inception of the scientific method regarding Covid 19 and the vaccines.
 
Sep 23, 2010
1,795
1,183
1,743
#48
I also think you’re showing a lack of the humility you’re so proud of, when you make decisive statements that the professor should stay home instead of requiring students to wear masks (properly). Like I said, I don’t get that and I feel moving to a remote class is more drastic than requiring masks.
I think remote class would be more dramatic but may be necessary if the professor is truly this compromised. I wouldn't think a college campus would be a good place for a compromised adult. If the professor were my parent, I would hope they would look to other avenues of teaching as well, especially if they were this concerned. Like I said, I thought the reporter should have just worn the mask. I always do when someone asks me to do so.
 

TheMonkey

Territorial Marshal
A/V Subscriber
Sep 16, 2004
6,629
2,843
1,743
47
DFW
#49
And not worn properly....you always forget that part of my very first statement to make it easier for you. I would also like to see the effectiveness of N-95 masks vs cloth masks. I'm guessing your studies would back up my claim that N-95s are more effective. So, my initial statement would not be "This is wrong. I have shared clear data on this." This is the statement by you I would say lacked humility as it seemed very absolute even though it didn't address my initial statement.

Which by the way, the studies you speak of are mere conclusions based on the trends the data they show. They are not facts as we do not have all the information yet. They are still working their way through the scientific method on this one. And that is where I believe we lack humility. We show a few studies, and say "See, this is fact"....when we are just at the inception of the scientific method regarding Covid 19 and the vaccines.
Studies show that N95s are most effective (which I have never argued against), but surgical and cloth masks do effectively reduce the transmission of Covid via droplets. This is especially true in the case with this professor, because any of these masks will be effective in protecting him from students if they wear them. If the professor wears an N95 mask and the students simply wear surgical/cloth, then studies show this will be highly effective.

I didn't ignore your statement about "worn properly." I just think it's actually silly. But that's why I brought up seatbelts. If people don't use the shoulder harness, then they aren't protected as well. Same as if someone wears the mask below their nose.

In an earlier thread, you made statements that studies have repeatedly shown that wearing masks is pointless unless they are N95 (paraphrasing). I rebutted that showing that studies disproving that statement. You then repeat your assertion, that's why I said you were wrong.

We know the masks have large limitations in regards to their effectiveness.
The science has made it clear that if we're not all wearing N95 masks and wearing them properly, protection is very spotty.
These are gross exaggerations at the least, if not simply false statements.
 
Sep 23, 2010
1,795
1,183
1,743
#50
Studies show that N95s are most effective (which I have never argued against), but surgical and cloth masks do effectively reduce the transmission of Covid via droplets. This is especially true in the case with this professor, because any of these masks will be effective in protecting him from students if they wear them. If the professor wears an N95 mask and the students simply wear surgical/cloth, then studies show this will be highly effective.

I didn't ignore your statement about "worn properly." I just think it's actually silly. But that's why I brought up seatbelts. If people don't use the shoulder harness, then they aren't protected as well. Same as if someone wears the mask below their nose.

In an earlier thread, you made statements that studies have repeatedly shown that wearing masks is pointless unless they are N95 (paraphrasing). I rebutted that showing that studies disproving that statement. You then repeat your assertion, that's why I said you were wrong.




These are gross exaggerations at the least, if not simply false statements.
This is respectable how you viewed my comments. I likely did not communicate them as effectively as I could have. Masks certainly have limitations for the reasons I have already given. We seem to be in agreement about that. And when not worn properly, they lose a lot of their effectiveness.
 

UrbanCowboy1

Some cowboys gots smarts real good like me.
Aug 8, 2006
3,873
1,952
1,743
Phoenix, AZ
#51
I don't have objections to masks or vaccines. I wear a mask when asked. I was vaccinated in March even though I am relatively young and healthy. So I don't know where you are with my objections.

Humility is the issue. I am humble enough to abide with masks and vaccines. But I'm not arrogant enough to believe that this will surely end the problem. And I'm not so arrogant to condemn and blame others for the pandemic who think differently than me. Humility is the issue on the other side when they claim masks and vaccines don't work at all. That's very arrogant as well. We got a major humility problem in this country.

Best I can tell from what's happening is this thing is going to run it's course, and we can't stop it. We can only mitigate it to certain extents. And we are certain those extents have limitations as well so far.
So what's the issue, then? If you are humble enough to abide all this, then why even argue about her wearing a mask?
 
Jul 5, 2020
1,259
261
213
58
Broken Arrow
#53
The professor asked the student to wear her mask properly. I was addressing masks in general. Regarding proper use, seatbelts don’t work when worn improperly. Yet we still have seatbelt “mandates.” I would also assume that the data from most studies includes people who wear their masks improperly. The bottom line was that even a basic, widely-available surgical mask stops droplets that transmit most Covid particles.

The funny thing is that I’m arguing masks are effective, which would help us continue to have in-person classes, operating businesses, etc. Meanwhile, if we took your objections to their logical ends, we would need to shut down again. Also, I’m sure most (non-a-hole) students would rather wear a mask during class than have to take it remotely.

Side note: I don’t think my humility is the issue here.
Same can be said for your comments and objections, because even if control this with proper mask usage now, there will always remain the same group of people who claim we should keep wearing masks for the next variant, and pretty much just because it makes them feel safe.
 

TheMonkey

Territorial Marshal
A/V Subscriber
Sep 16, 2004
6,629
2,843
1,743
47
DFW
#54
Same can be said for your comments and objections, because even if control this with proper mask usage now, there will always remain the same group of people who claim we should keep wearing masks for the next variant, and pretty much just because it makes them feel safe.
Nope. Nice slippery slope there.

I would base it on community outbreak rates to help manage hospitalization. I already stated that was my primary driver.