Real Underwood coaching evaluation

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Cro

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Apr 6, 2010
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#61
No. He said "let's talk about it" instead of "Sure, I'll give you $3M, no questions asked even though the only two coaches in this league making that money have been to the Final Four."

There are a lot of coaches out there that haven't yet hit that mark either.
it's reported that he offered him 2.2 mil and then compared his first season to that of Ford's............... BU then got up and left...........
 
Nov 18, 2011
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#62
people on here need to realize that Holder just balked at paying a coach the league average. the same coach who went to Illinois for 2.7 mill/year. i'd be interested who they think we can get to come here, that is an already established coach, for less than 3 mil/year............... i'm all ears............
Oh geez, there's plenty of guys that would come for under 2 if we want to go the mid major route again. Big 12 average keeps getting thrown out there but look at those names that make that average that high. All coaches who have final fours on the resume and long records of success. They are also top 10-15 paid coaches in the country.
 

Cro

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#63
Oh geez, there's plenty of guys that would come for under 2 if we want to go the mid major route again. Big 12 average keeps getting thrown out there but look at those names that make that average that high. All coaches who have final fours on the resume and long records of success. They are also top 10-15 paid coaches in the country.
yeah, and then they'll be gone in 2-3 years........
 

Cro

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#65
According to BU' agent who was Tramels source.
it' been reported the same in different outlets............. so you think BU said i'll only take 3 mil, and Holder said "lets talk about it" and then BU got up and left and went and signed a contract at Illinois for 2.7 mil?
 

OSUMIKE17

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Apr 11, 2009
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#67
it's reported that he offered him 2.2 mil and then compared his first season to that of Ford's............... BU then got up and left...........
It's a negotiation. One starts low, the other starts high and they are supposed to find a common ground.

And if the source is correct, and Holder compared his first season to Ford's, then yes that was stupid. But it wasn't inaccurate. The seasons were similar...except Ford actually won a tourney game.

Either way, that one comparison alone should never be why a coach leaves and walks away from his supposed "dream job." That's just petty and thin skinned.
 

OSUMIKE17

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#69
it' been reported the same in different outlets............. so you think BU said i'll only take 3 mil, and Holder said "lets talk about it" and then BU got up and left and went and signed a contract at Illinois for 2.7 mil?
That's exactly what happened. And yes, all of these "sources" are coming straight from Underwood's camp to try to take the heat off of him.

Otherwise, why in the hell would they comment at all?
 

Mfa6677

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#71
Question?? Who was I listening to on Triple Play Sports in the 2 to 3 o'clock hour (central time) today. He was pretty negative BU.
I listened. Seemed to me it was more sour grapes than substance. Kendricks was rude and short with the caller that disagreed and to me it made his rant less credible
 

steross

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#72
It's a negotiation. One starts low, the other starts high and they are supposed to find a common ground.

And if the source is correct, and Holder compared his first season to Ford's, then yes that was stupid. But it wasn't inaccurate. The seasons were similar...except Ford actually won a tourney game.

Either way, that one comparison alone should never be why a coach leaves and walks away from his supposed "dream job." That's just petty and thin skinned.
Where has it been said that it was that one comparison alone that made him walk? That is an example. The lack of vision for an elite basketball program that he was getting from holder Seems to be the primary cause.

Of course we can't know if any of that is true. But, taking emotion and orange colored glasses out of it, of all the things said, it makes the most sense.
 
Dec 6, 2013
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#74
people on here need to realize that Holder just balked at paying a coach the league average. the same coach who went to Illinois for 2.7 mill/year. i'd be interested who they think we can get to come here, that is an already established coach, for less than 3 mil/year............... i'm all ears............
But now they don't have to. We have 3 million more dollars to spend because of Illinois buyout. We can afford 3 million
 

OSUMIKE17

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#75
Where has it been said that it was that one comparison alone that made him walk? That is an example. The lack of vision for an elite basketball program that he was getting from holder Seems to be the primary cause.

Of course we can't know if any of that is true. But, taking emotion and orange colored glasses out of it, of all the things said, it makes the most sense.
I was going off his direct statement. Ford comparison and so BU got up and left.

And I don't buy the lack of vision for an elite basketball program talk. Holder tried to hire Self away from KU and if I remember right, he was offering him over $3 million a decade ago when the top coaches weren't making nearly that. That doesn't sound like an AD that lacks vision for an elite basketball program.

Being objective, Holder isn't the best with communication. But I don't think that equates to a lack of vision or dedication to any of the athletic programs.
 
Dec 15, 2004
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#76
solid original post......though I am surprised you weren't crucified by the "higher intelligence" members on here.........

I agree with you............I will add to this.........I know that this summer, Coach Underwood told two alumni/supporters, that "Jeff Carroll is the dumbest basketball player I have ever coached"............first, as a coach, you NEVER make a comment like that to anyone outside of your coaching staff!...second, if that's the case, how could you have changed him into one of the best offensive players in the Big 12???

This whole crap about Underwood trying to portray Oklahoma State as "not wanting to have a big-time program" is the biggest bunch of crap EVER! Locker room and facilities prove that statement is b.s..............what he means is Oklahoma State "is not wanting to PAY ME Coach K money because I obviously am their or anyone that will pay me's savior!"

Congratulate him for doing a good job this year, but don't give him the time of day otherwise.........he is a used-car salesman, period.......knows what to say and when to say it and how to "look" in the public eye. His only allegiance is to himself.


The one favor he might have done OSU in his abrupt departure, is pissing off his players enough that they will see he didn't care about them, and they might embrace the people and fans of Oklahoma State and want to stay.........
 
Oct 30, 2007
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#77
What do you think a "proven coach" will cost. If it's in the neighborhood of $3 mil I think we were better off not making a change.
I think a proven coach like Buzz Peterson from VT will be around $3M per year. If we get a proven mid-major coach it will likely be more around the $2M to 2.5M range.

I don't mind Coach Holder balking at making BU a top 10 paid coach. For that price tag you can go out and get a coach like Williams that has proven he can build a roster and take them to the Elite 8. Coach Underwood had a very similar year to what Travis Ford had his first year. We don't know if this team would get better or worse as Ford's talent filtered out and Underwood's talent filtered in. So committing to a top 10 salary is a big risk for an unproven coach.

The main issue I have with Coach Holder is it seems he played hardball and offended BU. He acted like he wasn't committed to our MBB program and that sealed BU's fate. I think if he would've taken a different approach to the contract negotiations, we couldn't kept him here for around $2.5M. That would've been best for everyone.
 

Jostate

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#78
The main issue I have with Coach Holder is it seems he played hardball and offended BU. He acted like he wasn't committed to our MBB program and that sealed BU's fate. I think if he would've taken a different approach to the contract negotiations, we couldn't kept him here for around $2.5M. That would've been best for everyone.
It would be out of character for Holder to not want a top level program. He's a competitor. It is not out of character for him to present things poorly.
 
Oct 30, 2007
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#79
It would be out of character for Holder to not want a top level program. He's a competitor. It is not out of character for him to present things poorly.
I agree. I think he's a hardcore negotiator though. I wouldn't put it past him to compare our record & attendance to other lesser programs to gain leverage against a coach at the negotiating table. That's reportedly what happened, and it didn't sit well with BU. (Assuming you believe Berry Tramel and his sources.)
 
Jun 21, 2006
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#80
I think what happened was after we lost to UM Holder tried to break the ice and said something like "hey brad, more like small wood huh?!" I dunno. That's just from my sources is all.