SCOTUS to overturn Roe v Wade

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Takeout Slide

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There is no separation between Church and State . Read Thomas Jefferson's letter again to understand his meaning
I've read it many times. What exactly do you think it says if not that the Danbury Baptists should not be prohibited from practicing their religion by the establishment of some other official religion (in their case, Congregationalism), nor should they expect their religion to be established to the exclusion of others? Thus, a "wall of separation," which phrase is in the letter, that protects *both* church and state from the overreach of the other.

From a purely historical and legal perspective, it is interesting to ponder whether any total restriction of abortion would, in fact, impede upon the religious principles of faiths like Judaism and Islam that provide for abortions up to a certain time period.
 
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No, as physicians we try to help people with matters of health at all stages of life. We do not start at birth. All of the major physician groups have released statementscondemning this decision that puts big government in health care decisions.

No, we humans do not value all lives as equally important which you should understand from my post so it is odd to ask the question that I already answered.

If you are going to inappropriately try to tie women trying to make this difficult individual choice in with horrible atrocities in history at least add in the more pertinent ones to this nation. Slavery and the reduction of the Native American population from 10 million to 237,000 occurred here. Not that any of those have anything to do with this because all of those were governments, majority men, making conditions that took bodily autonomy away from people. Now, if we ever had the government start forced abortion, I would be with you.

We have had legal abortion for a half of a century and it has been a very successful time in our history. See, the rest of us have an internal moral compass that does let us know what to do. It is interesting that you feel you wouid not be able to stop killing because of the individual right abortion. Sounds like you need help.
You idea that you and others have an "internal moral compass" is interesting, and widely accepted.We are all temped to believe it. But history shows the terrible result of that idea.
 

CowboyJD

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You idea that you and others have an "internal moral compass" is interesting, and widely accepted.We are all temped to believe it. But history shows the terrible result of that idea.
History also shows the terrible results of leaving the moral compass up to Church leaders and other "God directed" leaders as well.
 

Boomer.....

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Until you're an adult, you pretty much are your parents property. Yeah they cant abuse you but short of that you have very few of your own rights that supercede what is permissable by your parents
I am talking about taking a life. You obviously wouldn't think that would be okay for a mother to do to a small child but I guess it's okay for a late third trimester baby?
 

okstate987

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You idea that you and others have an "internal moral compass" is interesting, and widely accepted.We are all temped to believe it. But history shows the terrible result of that idea.
The bible is a terrible moral compass. Remember it advocating for slave ownership, genocide, killing those of different religions, stoning those who violate the sabbath? I sure do.

I am not going into all of the issues with religious leadership--which has led to mistreatment of minorities, people of various sexual orientations and hundreds of years of religious warfare.

We are better off determining morality based on cause and effect or actions and consequences.

Not the whims of bronze age humans who were "divinely inspired".
 
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Here is an interesting story on one of the hardest workers wanting to change government to resemble a Christian Theocracy. He brilliantly thought up making Texas citizens bounty hunters against abortion. He has another twisted legal approach to use an old 1850 Texas law against abortion to prosecute organizations that fund abortions and their donors. He also has worked to roll back LBGTQ rights. With all the worsening problems in the world threatening lives, it's a pity some people are worried silly over how people practice sex and their reproductive decisions.

Meanwhile, somebody needs to tell Mullin, who wants all abortion banned with no exceptions, that an NBC poll found that only 5% agree with him.
He's too busy with his.....this is my daughter, she's a female, and this is my son, he's a male routine. SERENITY NOW!!!!
 
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The bible is a terrible moral compass. Remember it advocating for slave ownership, genocide, killing those of different religions, stoning those who violate the sabbath? I sure do.

I am not going into all of the issues with religious leadership--which has led to mistreatment of minorities, people of various sexual orientations and hundreds of years of religious warfare.

We are better off determining morality based on cause and effect or actions and consequences.

Not the whims of bronze age humans who were "divinely inspired".
Would you please do me the favor of showing me where the Bible advocates for slave ownership or genocide?
 

Binman4OSU

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Would you please do me the favor of showing me where the Bible advocates for slave ownership or genocide?
Paul tells slaves to be obedient to their masters without fear just as sincere as they are to Christ.

Ephesians 6:5-8 Paul states, “Slaves, be obedient to your human masters with fear and trembling, in sincerity of heart, as to Christ” which is Paul instructing slaves to obey their master. Similar statements regarding obedient slaves can be found in Colossians 3:22-24, 1 Timothy 6:1-2, and Titus 2:9-10.
 

okstate987

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Would you please do me the favor of showing me where the Bible advocates for slave ownership or genocide?
According to 1st Samuel, God tells Saul to kill all Amalekite men, women and children. When he doesn't, he removes his favor from Saul. How is that not genocidal?

War with the Amalekites

15 Samuel said to Saul, “The Lord sent me to choose you to be king over His people Israel. Now listen to the Words of the Lord. 2 This is what the Lord of All says. ‘I will punish Amalek for what he did to Israel in standing against them on the way, when they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go and destroy Amalek. Destroy all they have, and do not let them live. Kill both man and woman, child and baby, cattle and sheep, camel and donkey.’”

4 So Saul called the people together and numbered them in Telaim. There were 200,000 foot soldiers and 10,000 men of Judah. 5 Saul came to the city of Amalek and hid, waiting in the valley. 6 Saul said to the Kenites, “Go, leave the Amalekites, or I might destroy you with them. For you showed kindness to all the people of Israel when they came up from Egypt.” So the Kenites left the Amalekites. 7 Then Saul destroyed the Amalekites, from Havilah as far as Shur, east of Egypt. 8 He took Agag the king of the Amalekites alive, and destroyed all the people with the sword. 9 But Saul and the people did not kill Agag and the best of the sheep, the cattle, the fat animals ready to be killed, the lambs, and all that was good. They would not destroy them. But they destroyed everything that was hated and was of no worth.
Saul Is No Longer King

10 The Word of the Lord came to Samuel, saying, 11 “I am sorry that I have made Saul king. For he has turned away from following Me. He has not done what I told him to do.” Samuel was much troubled in his heart. He cried out to the Lord all night. 12 When Samuel got up early in the morning to meet Saul, he was told, “Saul came to Carmel and set up a stone in his honor. Then he turned and went down to Gilgal.” 13 Samuel came to Saul, and Saul said to him, “May the Lord bring good to you. I have done what the Lord told me to do.” 14 But Samuel said, “Then why do I hear the sounds of sheep and cattle?” 15 Saul said, “They have brought them from the Amalekites. For the people saved the best of the sheep and cattle to give to the Lord your God. But we have destroyed all the rest.” 16 Then Samuel said to Saul, “Stop! I will tell you what the Lord said to me last night.” And Saul said to him, “Speak.”

17 Samuel said, “Is it not true that even when you were not important in your own eyes, you were made the head of the families of Israel? The Lord chose you to be king over Israel. 18 And the Lord sent you to go and destroy the sinners, the Amalekites, and fight against them until they are no more. 19 Why then did you not obey the voice of the Lord? You rushed upon what was left after the battle and did what was sinful in the Lord’s eyes.”

20 Saul said to Samuel, “I did obey the voice of the Lord. I went where the Lord sent me. I have brought Agag the king of Amalek. And I have destroyed the Amalekites. 21 But the people took some of their things that were left. They took sheep and cattle and the best of the things to be destroyed, to give to the Lord your God at Gilgal.” 22 Samuel said, “Is the Lord pleased as much with burnt gifts as He is when He is obeyed? See, it is better to obey than to give gifts. It is better to listen than to give the fat of rams. 23 To go against what you are told is like the sin of witchcraft. Not to obey is like the sin of worshiping false gods. You have turned away from the Word of the Lord. So He has turned away from you being king.”
 
Apr 7, 2006
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War with the Amalekites

15 Samuel said to Saul, “The Lord sent me to choose you to be king over His people Israel. Now listen to the Words of the Lord. 2 This is what the Lord of All says. ‘I will punish Amalek for what he did to Israel in standing against them on the way, when they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go and destroy Amalek. Destroy all they have, and do not let them live. Kill both man and woman, child and baby, cattle and sheep, camel and donkey.’”

4 So Saul called the people together and numbered them in Telaim. There were 200,000 foot soldiers and 10,000 men of Judah. 5 Saul came to the city of Amalek and hid, waiting in the valley. 6 Saul said to the Kenites, “Go, leave the Amalekites, or I might destroy you with them. For you showed kindness to all the people of Israel when they came up from Egypt.” So the Kenites left the Amalekites. 7 Then Saul destroyed the Amalekites, from Havilah as far as Shur, east of Egypt. 8 He took Agag the king of the Amalekites alive, and destroyed all the people with the sword. 9 But Saul and the people did not kill Agag and the best of the sheep, the cattle, the fat animals ready to be killed, the lambs, and all that was good. They would not destroy them. But they destroyed everything that was hated and was of no worth.
Saul Is No Longer King

10 The Word of the Lord came to Samuel, saying, 11 “I am sorry that I have made Saul king. For he has turned away from following Me. He has not done what I told him to do.” Samuel was much troubled in his heart. He cried out to the Lord all night. 12 When Samuel got up early in the morning to meet Saul, he was told, “Saul came to Carmel and set up a stone in his honor. Then he turned and went down to Gilgal.” 13 Samuel came to Saul, and Saul said to him, “May the Lord bring good to you. I have done what the Lord told me to do.” 14 But Samuel said, “Then why do I hear the sounds of sheep and cattle?” 15 Saul said, “They have brought them from the Amalekites. For the people saved the best of the sheep and cattle to give to the Lord your God. But we have destroyed all the rest.” 16 Then Samuel said to Saul, “Stop! I will tell you what the Lord said to me last night.” And Saul said to him, “Speak.”

17 Samuel said, “Is it not true that even when you were not important in your own eyes, you were made the head of the families of Israel? The Lord chose you to be king over Israel. 18 And the Lord sent you to go and destroy the sinners, the Amalekites, and fight against them until they are no more. 19 Why then did you not obey the voice of the Lord? You rushed upon what was left after the battle and did what was sinful in the Lord’s eyes.”

20 Saul said to Samuel, “I did obey the voice of the Lord. I went where the Lord sent me. I have brought Agag the king of Amalek. And I have destroyed the Amalekites. 21 But the people took some of their things that were left. They took sheep and cattle and the best of the things to be destroyed, to give to the Lord your God at Gilgal.” 22 Samuel said, “Is the Lord pleased as much with burnt gifts as He is when He is obeyed? See, it is better to obey than to give gifts. It is better to listen than to give the fat of rams. 23 To go against what you are told is like the sin of witchcraft. Not to obey is like the sin of worshiping false gods. You have turned away from the Word of the Lord. So He has turned away from you being king.”
How does this equate to advocacy? This is providing a record of events. That's like saying every history textbook in the US advocates for these things.
 

okstate987

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How does this equate to advocacy? This is providing a record of events. That's like saying every history textbook in the US advocates for these things.
Apperantly you have reading or comprehension problems. Pay attention:

The Lord sent me to choose you to be king over His people Israel. Now listen to the Words of the Lord. 2 This is what the Lord of All says. ‘I will punish Amalek for what he did to Israel in standing against them on the way, when they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go and destroy Amalek. Destroy all they have, and do not let them live. Kill both man and woman, child and baby, cattle and sheep, camel and donkey.’”

And I have destroyed the Amalekites. 21 But the people took some of their things that were left. They took sheep and cattle and the best of the things to be destroyed, to give to the Lord your God at Gilgal.” 22 Samuel said, “Is the Lord pleased as much with burnt gifts as He is when He is obeyed? See, it is better to obey than to give gifts. It is better to listen than to give the fat of rams. 23 To go against what you are told is like the sin of witchcraft. Not to obey is like the sin of worshiping false gods. You have turned away from the Word of the Lord. So He has turned away from you being king.”

The burden of proof is on you: how is this not genocidal?
 

Binman4OSU

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Stupid about AGW!!
Now here comes the "religion is evil" crowd.
Organized Religion IS evil. I would wager everything I own....that More lives have been lost on the Planet Earth in the name of "religion" than all wars combined.

Hell look no further than Russia vs Ukraine today. The Orthodox Russian Church is telling its people that Russia is doing the work of the Lord.

Faith in Jesus Christ is not evil. Faith in the Gospel is not Evil.
 
Apr 7, 2006
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Apperantly you have reading or comprehension problems. Pay attention:

The Lord sent me to choose you to be king over His people Israel. Now listen to the Words of the Lord. 2 This is what the Lord of All says. ‘I will punish Amalek for what he did to Israel in standing against them on the way, when they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go and destroy Amalek. Destroy all they have, and do not let them live. Kill both man and woman, child and baby, cattle and sheep, camel and donkey.’”

And I have destroyed the Amalekites. 21 But the people took some of their things that were left. They took sheep and cattle and the best of the things to be destroyed, to give to the Lord your God at Gilgal.” 22 Samuel said, “Is the Lord pleased as much with burnt gifts as He is when He is obeyed? See, it is better to obey than to give gifts. It is better to listen than to give the fat of rams. 23 To go against what you are told is like the sin of witchcraft. Not to obey is like the sin of worshiping false gods. You have turned away from the Word of the Lord. So He has turned away from you being king.”

The burden of proof is on you: how is this not genocidal?
Again - not disputing the quotes - but if a history textbook quotes a slave owner does that equate to advocacy of the event? Everything you're providing is a historical record of events.

It is somewhat tangential but should also be noted that Christianity (which you didn't specifically reference but I assume is within the line of reasoning) is based on the teachings of Jesus Christ which is all within the New Testament.
 

okstate987

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Now here comes the "religion is evil" crowd.
If you cannot see that there is some evil in religion, you are completely blind. Millions of dead people say otherwise.

There are good parts too, but lets be clear, religion is up there with communism as one of the deadliest ideologies in human history.