SCOTUS to overturn Roe v Wade

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Mar 11, 2006
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Yea, my bad. There has been no change from say.... Dole and Reagan to Trump and Greene. Just the same old thing.
JFK to Clinton to AOC. Yep, they are the same.

Look, I get most everything is going to be to the ”right” of your POV, but you specifying an ideology on that statement is myopic.
 

steross

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Mar 31, 2004
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JFK to Clinton to AOC. Yep, they are the same.

Look, I get most everything is going to be to the ”right” of your POV, but you specifying an ideology on that statement is myopic.
Instead of being whiny and full of whataboutism from your alt-right positioning, why don't you explain how you would have said it better?
 
Mar 11, 2006
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Instead of being whiny and full of whataboutism from your alt-right positioning, why don't you explain how you would have said it better?
You are arguing and taking a position about specific wording and you add a sentence to make it specific to an ideology. How would I have said it better, --- I wouldn't have added an obviously partisan, dumb, and/or myopic statements to an issue that wasn't partisan.

Now if I wanted to bore people on two pages of threads, I would point out that your use of "whataboutism" is completely wrong.
 

steross

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You are arguing and taking a position about specific wording and you add a sentence to make it specific to an ideology. How would I have said it better, --- I wouldn't have added an obviously partisan, dumb, and/or myopic statements to an issue that wasn't partisan.

Now if I wanted to bore people on two pages of threads, I would point out that your use of "whataboutism" is completely wrong.
And gave examples of people that claim that ideology doing that very thing. I see it every day. I have conservatives telling me how wrong I am about covid treatment (STILL! using Ivermectin) and how I am wrong about vaccination etc. They simply think they get to make up reality for themselves against all evidence. And, similar to what is happening here when the truth is explained they just get snippy and more arrogant. So, between fake medical science and fake election outcomes, I feel that there is a significant portion of conservativism that is doing exactly what I said. You can defend them if you want.

If you think my use of whataboutism is wrong, that gives me even more confidence it is just fine. And, you knew that was a weak jab so instead of actually explaining your concern you threw it out there with the "two pages" excuse. If you didn't want to be countered on your weak jab, don't throw it. Just as we agreed to a while back. (Don't worry, I knew there was no way you would hold yourself to that).
 
Mar 11, 2006
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And gave examples of people that claim that ideology doing that very thing. I see it every day. I have conservatives telling me how wrong I am about covid treatment (STILL! using Ivermectin) and how I am wrong about vaccination etc. They simply think they get to make up reality for themselves against all evidence. And, similar to what is happening here when the truth is explained they just get snippy and more arrogant. So, between fake medical science and fake election outcomes, I feel that there is a significant portion of conservativism that is doing exactly what I said. You can defend them if you want.

If you think my use of whataboutism is wrong, that gives me even more confidence it is just fine. And, you knew that was a weak jab so instead of actually explaining your concern you threw it out there with the "two pages" excuse. If you didn't want to be countered on your weak jab, don't throw it. Just as we agreed to a while back. (Don't worry, I knew there was no way you would hold yourself to that).
So you give two examples of some conservatives getting facts wrong ...okay (I agree with your examples, and I am sure there are many more). Can you REALLY not think about multiple examples of liberals getting facts and science wrong? The debate you were partaking was not about political ideology, but you appear to be insistent that creating own facts is specific to an ideology. That is telling.

Just a couple of days ago you were on a silly argument about utilizing specific wording and that words matter. And not utilizing context. I guess context does matter and specific words don't. I figured your opinion would change, but that was record fast. At least you maintained consistency for 7 days.

Personally, I do like the Steross version that uses context best.
 
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Binman4OSU

Legendary Cowboy
Aug 31, 2007
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Stupid about AGW!!
If we learned anything in the last 4 years. Trump was the pinnacle of the GOP for Facts and Science

They freaking coined the term "ALTERNATIVE FACTS" which by definition CAN'T be a thing.

GOP facts/science statements are going to be heavily scrutinized for a few years after what Trump did to them and how he used them.
 
Dec 9, 2013
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KOCO just released poll results of 700 Republicans who are likely to vote in next week’s Republican primaries.
62% favored abortion in some circumstances
12% favored abortion w no limits
19% outlawed all abortions

Don’t know what margin of error was but that’s almost 3/4 REPUBLICAN voters that stand opposite elected officials. Don’t know what the Democrat #s look like but that poll would indicate over 80% of Oklahomans favor abortion in some form.

How long until we get a state question?
 
May 4, 2011
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KOCO just released poll results of 700 Republicans who are likely to vote in next week’s Republican primaries.
62% favored abortion in some circumstances
12% favored abortion w no limits
19% outlawed all abortions

Don’t know what margin of error was but that’s almost 3/4 REPUBLICAN voters that stand opposite elected officials. Don’t know what the Democrat #s look like but that poll would indicate over 80% of Oklahomans favor abortion in some form.

How long until we get a state question?
However long it takes for a wealthy or locally famous person to die

Too cynical?
 

StillwaterTownie

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Jun 18, 2010
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KOCO just released poll results of 700 Republicans who are likely to vote in next week’s Republican primaries.
62% favored abortion in some circumstances
12% favored abortion w no limits
19% outlawed all abortions

Don’t know what margin of error was but that’s almost 3/4 REPUBLICAN voters that stand opposite elected officials. Don’t know what the Democrat #s look like but that poll would indicate over 80% of Oklahomans favor abortion in some form.

How long until we get a state question?
Astounding that as many as 12% of Republicans favored abortion with no limits. Probably Republican candidates, such as Mullin, would be well advised not to bring up that they are 100% pro-life with no exceptions.

The state question if the petition for it can get enough signatures will most likely come in 2024. Before then, it will be interesting to see if Republican legislators will pass more extreme anti-abortion laws. And will they leave birth control alone?
 
May 31, 2007
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I wonder if many people in these red states are like me. I didn’t agree with the RvW decision but I am pro choice.

I think the only people who are pro choice are those that are religious. And with the Republican Party becoming the party of Trump, clearly religion isn’t a high priority because I can’t see traditional religious people being pro Trump.
 

CowboyJD

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Dec 10, 2004
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I wonder if many people in these red states are like me. I didn’t agree with the RvW decision but I am pro choice.

I think the only people who are pro choice are those that are religious. And with the Republican Party becoming the party of Trump, clearly religion isn’t a high priority because I can’t see traditional religious people being pro Trump.
Traditional evangelical religious are some of most stridently and vociferously supports of Trump out there. An incredibly large percentage of traditional evangelical religious persons are pro-Trump.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-ta...end-worship-services-voted-for-trump-in-2020/
 
Nov 18, 2011
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KOCO just released poll results of 700 Republicans who are likely to vote in next week’s Republican primaries.
62% favored abortion in some circumstances
12% favored abortion w no limits
19% outlawed all abortions

Don’t know what margin of error was but that’s almost 3/4 REPUBLICAN voters that stand opposite elected officials. Don’t know what the Democrat #s look like but that poll would indicate over 80% of Oklahomans favor abortion in some form.

How long until we get a state question?
That 62% statement is very broad, “favored in some circumstances.” That would include everything from only for medical emergencies (Stitt’s position and what Oklahoma passed), emergencies + rape/incest, or abortions 10, 15, 20 weeks. Vast majority of Oklahoma republicans would fall into that first or second bucket, not the later, as do those who represent them. Sounds like typical liberal media polling trying to influence public opinion.
 
Dec 9, 2013
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That 62% statement is very broad, “favored in some circumstances.” That would include everything from only for medical emergencies (Stitt’s position and what Oklahoma passed), emergencies + rape/incest, or abortions 10, 15, 20 weeks. Vast majority of Oklahoma republicans would fall into that first or second bucket, not the later, as do those who represent them. Sounds like typical liberal media polling trying to influence public opinion.
It wasn’t a media poll. They were presenting the findings of an external poll. They showed results to 3 questions of 700 likely Republican primary voters. 1st 2 results were US Sen & State Superintendent.

Looks like the polls were run by an OKC company called Amber Integrated. I know nothing about them but looked at the bio’s on their page and the only mentions of politics were from 3 of the individuals. 1 was associated w Keating, 1 w Cole and the other w Falin. 1 other associate worked in NYC for CNN, MSNBC and CNBC.

I’ll agree that the 62% is in need of further drill down, but If be curious as to your source for your claim.
 
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Binman4OSU

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Aug 31, 2007
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Stupid about AGW!!
I think there is a total disconnect between the RNC and its voters.
There isn't a disconnect in the Dem voters. For the most part they are all on board with the DC Dem platform. But a growing group of extremism centered around sexuality, pronouns, gender identity etc has strongly emerged calling for changes and direction that no sane Dem can get behind and has potential to fracture the DEM party to the current GOP level in the next 6-8 months.

Then the GOP platform is Way out of touch with its voters and moved to a place where its own voters don't recognize it...so the true intent of GOP voters isn't being expressed or represented at all.

it is time for at least one if not two new major parties to emerge and take the reigns at this point.
 

OSUCowboy787

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Dec 31, 2008
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There isn't a disconnect in the Dem voters. For the most part they are all on board with the DC Dem platform. But a growing group of extremism centered around sexuality, pronouns, gender identity etc has strongly emerged calling for changes and direction that no sane Dem can get behind and has potential to fracture the DEM party to the current GOP level in the next 6-8 months.

Then the GOP platform is Way out of touch with its voters and moved to a place where its own voters don't recognize it...so the true intent of GOP voters isn't being expressed or represented at all.

it is time for at least one if not two new major parties to emerge and take the reigns at this point.
The best case scenario is to allow the Squad and Trumpers to have their own insane parties and call the new centrist parties Classical Democrats and Classical Republican parties. Problem is that those extremes will both die off in an election cycle or 2 and we'll be back right where we started with pandering to extremes of each wing.
 

steross

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Mar 31, 2004
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The best case scenario is to allow the Squad and Trumpers to have their own insane parties and call the new centrist parties Classical Democrats and Classical Republican parties. Problem is that those extremes will both die off in an election cycle or 2 and we'll be back right where we started with pandering to extremes of each wing.
Liz Cheney just got 28% of the vote in the Republican primary in Wyoming. There is no better indicator of Trump vs Non-Trump republicans than that. While, like Oklahoma, Wyoming is a conservative state, it certainly does not appear that Trump-loving republicans there could be called an extreme when they are the overwhelming majority. She got 73% of the vote prior to her concern with Trump so it isn't as if they just don't like her.