Shooting at Texas High School

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steross

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How do you deal with the fact that the mayor of London is having to outlaw knives practically because of the amount of violence being done with them because there are no guns available. And no one says mental illness is necessarily worse in America but why can you not see that in many of these instances a lot of the reasoning behind the violent act itself is the mental illness whereas the gun is just something they use to enact that violence it's just a tool to them.

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I would say if London had more gun availability they would not be comparing it to New York, they would be comparing it to Chicago.

Exactly. We have more deaths because our mentally ill have access to a tool that is much more efficient at causing those deaths than others. That is what I am saying.
 

steross

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In all of these logic exercises though how do you account for the millions of legally owned firearms, the vast majority of which, never are used in anything illegal.

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He's not, and that's my main issue/disagreement with his argument.
What do you mean how do I account for them?

I'm not claiming that having a gun will eventually turn any person into a cold-blooded killer. What I am claiming is that access to guns increases the death rate for the crimes that occur (and suicide attempts, BTW).

But, sneaking back into the conversation is "banning them" etc. Which is not what I am saying at all. I'm just admitting the truth.

Freedom of speech allows neo-nazis to march and say what they want to say. Where I live now (Australia), that is not allowed. Aussies think they have freedom of speech, but it is an implied freedom and the only real reason they have even that is the incredible power of OUR constitution. (sorry for the tangent). Anyway, free speech allows neo-nazis to say their horrible things- a fact. Stating that fact does not mean I have to "account for" the 330 million people that also have free speech rights but do not spout neo-nazi propaganda.
 
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steross

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Hmmm. Still seems like you're talking about different things. But yeah if steross believes the 2A is the root cause of gun violence then I also disagree.
What I am saying is that the overwhelming access to guns (because of the 2A) increases the US murder rate, gun crime rate, and suicide rate. "Root cause" was a term was thrown in by someone so I went with it but really works better for determining the cause of a specific incident not a population-based issue. Obviously, I do not think having a 2A "causes" previously law-abiding citizens to go out, buy a gun, and kill someone.
 
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wrenhal

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How do you deal with the fact that the mayor of London is having to outlaw knives practically because of the amount of violence being done with them because there are no guns available. And no one says mental illness is necessarily worse in America but why can you not see that in many of these instances a lot of the reasoning behind the violent act itself is the mental illness whereas the gun is just something they use to enact that violence it's just a tool to them.

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I would say if London had more gun availability they would not be comparing it to New York, they would be comparing it to Chicago.

Exactly. We have more deaths because our mentally ill have access to a tool that is much more efficient at causing those deaths than others. That is what I am saying.
But in most cases they are already getting a hold of those tools illegally they are breaking laws by getting them and or using them in the way they're doing. So how would more gun laws make any difference other than to make it harder for legal citizens who Do no harm to have those guns

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steross

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But in most cases they are already getting a hold of those tools illegally they are breaking laws by getting them and or using them in the way they're doing. So how would more gun laws make any difference other than to make it harder for legal citizens who Do no harm to have those guns

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I don’t know.


I wasn’t debating more gun laws.
 

kaboy42

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Is something wrong with me that the first time I read that I read, "Of all trannies, a tranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive." Which was a whole lot funnier than the original, btw.

NTTAWWT
Yes. You need reading glasses you old fart. Get some before you exercise, execute, and/or exorcism a tranny.

There would definitely be something WWT.
 

Duke Silver

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Is something wrong with me that the first time I read that I read, "Of all trannies, a tranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive." Which was a whole lot funnier than the original, btw.

NTTAWWT
Then you see Pelosi and ...................................