Southern Baptist Convention Sexual Misconduct Report shows SBC mishandled or ignored claims last year

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UrbanCowboy1

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#41
Lets turn this over to our world.

You believe it's ethical that a teacher or administrator that has an affair with a 16 year old student shouldn't be held to a higher standard than someone that doesn't have authority over them?

You believe it ethical that a school board and other teachers that over look the teacher or administrator's affair with a 16 year old and don't report it shouldn't also be held to a higher standard?

It's called pedophilia and is wrong. The preacher is wrong if he groomed a 16 year old for sex. I find it wrong that the church was supporting him and not the lady it happened to.
Should have been more clear here - I was referring to 'all sin being equal', because it's definitely not.

I 100% agree that those in positions of power that use that power to commit crimes should be held to a higher standard.
 

andylicious

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#42
Should have been more clear here - I was referring to 'all sin being equal', because it's definitely not.

I 100% agree that those in positions of power that use that power to commit crimes should be held to a higher standard.
Sin is sin. I haven't always agreed with all sin being equal, but it does say all have sinned and come short.
 

RxCowboy

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#43
A video of a pastor admitting "adultery" to the flock then the woman coming forward and saying that she was only 16 and this wasn't adultery. And yet, after a few questions, she scurries off while the members go up to pray with him.

I think you need to watch this again. It doesn't play out quite the way you've described it.
 

Rack

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#44
Sin is sin. I haven't always agreed with all sin being equal, but it does say all have sinned and come short.
Sin is sin in that it separate us from God...But those who abuse power and leadership are held to a higher standard and worse judgement than just separation...While for you and me it's best that we love others as ourselves and see sin in ourselves as equally sad as sin in others (we aren't to judge). However, God is judge and jury and his judgement does indeed cause harsher sentences on those who abuse power over others when they know they are in the wrong. So as we sit as humans, it's is ours to see all sin as equal in terms of those we willfully commit against God, but those who abuse power are indeed judged more harshly than others who do similar sins out of ignorance.

A Pastor abusing a woman or a child is indeed a greater sin than someone viewing pornography...for instance. Both are sexual sins, but one involves another person and is preformed by a person in a power position. He'd be better off having a mill stone tied to his neck and thrown in the sea because he/she abused their power over others and will be severely punished.

But if we look at the life of David, here was a man of extreme power who abused it to sleep with Bathsheba and then sent her husband to the front lines to die. what happened to him, and why was he partially forgiven? AT least in eternity. Granted he endured so very harsh punishment's (on Earth) for his horrible behavior. Further consequences of David’s sin – Forthright Magazine.
 

UrbanCowboy1

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#45
A video of a pastor admitting "adultery" to the flock then the woman coming forward and saying that she was only 16 and this wasn't adultery. And yet, after a few questions, she scurries off while the members go up to pray with him.


Can't help but notice that the pastor didn't mention the 16 years old part. And in his office at the church. Yeesh. Sad as it is, you have to believe this was just him getting caught and not his only offence.
 

andylicious

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#47
It's going to get interesting in Oklahoma when the list of pervert Baptist preachers comes out next week. The BGCO still owes that young lady from Moore a huge apology for the way they acted after she got raped down at Falls Creek. If they were covering this stuff up for years and passing the pervert preachers around there needs to be some people prosecuted.
 
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#48
It's going to get interesting in Oklahoma when the list of pervert Baptist preachers comes out next week. The BGCO still owes that young lady from Moore a huge apology for the way they acted after she got raped down at Falls Creek. If they were covering this stuff up for years and passing the pervert preachers around there needs to be some people prosecuted.
I'm anticipating lots of familiar names, unfortunately
 

Jostate

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#49
It's going to get interesting in Oklahoma when the list of pervert Baptist preachers comes out next week. The BGCO still owes that young lady from Moore a huge apology for the way they acted after she got raped down at Falls Creek. If they were covering this stuff up for years and passing the pervert preachers around there needs to be some people prosecuted.
Holy crap I did not know this. Just looked this up and the guy got a suspended sentence? That's insane.
 

cowboyinexile

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#50
I think you need to watch this again. It doesn't play out quite the way you've described it.
Not totally but enough. The people calling bs-they get it. If that came up at my church I'm walking out the door and telling my kids why I'm doing it. But at least a quarter of the congregation were willing to look over a girl they knew for years calling him out for sexual assault and they stood with the preacher. There is no way my conscience could allow me to be that forgiving in the moment. I've been with my church for over a decade so the kids I knew as 2nd graders are in college now and the kids who were babies are my kids classmates. If any one of called out the priest for grooming them the way she did I'd like to say I have it in my heart to forgive the priest but in the moment I'm just done. I put a lot of faith in my spiritual leaders but if someone is willing to violate a little girl and try to defend it by saying trust me and let's move on then I'm finding somewhere else to worship.
 
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#51
Not totally but enough. The people calling bs-they get it. If that came up at my church I'm walking out the door and telling my kids why I'm doing it. But at least a quarter of the congregation were willing to look over a girl they knew for years calling him out for sexual assault and they stood with the preacher. There is no way my conscience could allow me to be that forgiving in the moment. I've been with my church for over a decade so the kids I knew as 2nd graders are in college now and the kids who were babies are my kids classmates. If any one of called out the priest for grooming them the way she did I'd like to say I have it in my heart to forgive the priest but in the moment I'm just done. I put a lot of faith in my spiritual leaders but if someone is willing to violate a little girl and try to defend it by saying trust me and let's move on then I'm finding somewhere else to worship.
And repeatedly try to call it just adultery when it's with a 16 y/o while also saying something to the effect of "I guess it doesn't matter that it was 20 years ago". Trying to minimize and squirrel your way out of it is just infuriating.
 

RxCowboy

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#53
Not totally but enough. The people calling bs-they get it. If that came up at my church I'm walking out the door and telling my kids why I'm doing it. But at least a quarter of the congregation were willing to look over a girl they knew for years calling him out for sexual assault and they stood with the preacher. There is no way my conscience could allow me to be that forgiving in the moment. I've been with my church for over a decade so the kids I knew as 2nd graders are in college now and the kids who were babies are my kids classmates. If any one of called out the priest for grooming them the way she did I'd like to say I have it in my heart to forgive the priest but in the moment I'm just done. I put a lot of faith in my spiritual leaders but if someone is willing to violate a little girl and try to defend it by saying trust me and let's move on then I'm finding somewhere else to worship.
I did not see where anyone in the congregation was calling her out. There was the one idiot who stood on the platform in front of her, clearly trying to intimidate her. However, at the end, they are calling him out, asking if the charge is true, and they are pretty angry sounding. He does keep trying to call it "adultery". But I also see people gather around her at the end of the video. The first was the lady who reached out to hug her. I think this scene is a lot more complex than it is being made out to be. I would also be interested in the knowing the fall out.
 

RxCowboy

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#54
No thanks.

You can share your opinion of what you saw if you like.
How about sharing what actually happened?

From the Daily Mail:
As the couple left the stage, the pastor then faced angry calls from the congregation.

'If you did it you need to admit it!' said one angry church-goer.

Another yelled: 'We need to hear from our pastor!' A third then cried out: 'Give him the microphone!'

Lowe returned to the stage.

At first he said: 'I told you I committed adultery and that it went on far too long.'

A member of the congregation then shouted out: 'You didn't tell us she was 16!'

He then relented: 'It was wrong. I can't make it right. I can't make it better. That's just the way it is.

'It's not all true but it did happen, yes.' (Rx: still trying to minimize, disgusting)

Because the legal age of consent in Indiana is 16, Lowe is not likely to face criminal charges for the relationship.

He has stepped down from the church and has been scrubbed from its website.

In a statement, the church said: 'This long-held secret first came to light when a woman in the church came forward and disclosed the relationship to various people within the church.

'When confronted by others in church leadership concerning that report, Pastor Lowe confessed privately that the adultery did, in fact, occur.

'In anticipation of Pastor Lowe’s public confession during our church service, the woman in question and her family were invited to be present.

'She did attend and, together with her husband, also addressed the congregation, indicating that improper sexual conduct first occurred when she was 16 years of age and continued into her twenties. She tearfully described living with deep shame and pain over the ensuing years.

'In the wake of what has now been revealed, we are hurting and broken for a woman who has lovingly attended and served in the church for many years, as well as for her husband and family.

'It is our deepest prayer and commitment to love, support, encourage and help her through a process of healing in any way in which we are able.

'Our brokenness extends to Pastor Lowe, his wife and family as well.

'For 42 years, New Life has taught and preached a Cross-driven message of repentance, forgiveness and restoration; a ministry of reconciliation which has been both led and modeled by Pastors John and Debbie Lowe.

'As healing occurs in their hearts, their marriage and family, we are committed to demonstrating the same support, encouragement, counsel and forgiveness that has come to define the collective heart and ministry of this body.'
 

steross

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#57
How about sharing what actually happened?

From the Daily Mail:
As the couple left the stage, the pastor then faced angry calls from the congregation.

'If you did it you need to admit it!' said one angry church-goer.

Another yelled: 'We need to hear from our pastor!' A third then cried out: 'Give him the microphone!'

Lowe returned to the stage.

At first he said: 'I told you I committed adultery and that it went on far too long.'

A member of the congregation then shouted out: 'You didn't tell us she was 16!'

He then relented: 'It was wrong. I can't make it right. I can't make it better. That's just the way it is.

'It's not all true but it did happen, yes.' (Rx: still trying to minimize, disgusting)

Because the legal age of consent in Indiana is 16, Lowe is not likely to face criminal charges for the relationship.

He has stepped down from the church and has been scrubbed from its website.

In a statement, the church said: 'This long-held secret first came to light when a woman in the church came forward and disclosed the relationship to various people within the church.

'When confronted by others in church leadership concerning that report, Pastor Lowe confessed privately that the adultery did, in fact, occur.

'In anticipation of Pastor Lowe’s public confession during our church service, the woman in question and her family were invited to be present.

'She did attend and, together with her husband, also addressed the congregation, indicating that improper sexual conduct first occurred when she was 16 years of age and continued into her twenties. She tearfully described living with deep shame and pain over the ensuing years.

'In the wake of what has now been revealed, we are hurting and broken for a woman who has lovingly attended and served in the church for many years, as well as for her husband and family.

'It is our deepest prayer and commitment to love, support, encourage and help her through a process of healing in any way in which we are able.

'Our brokenness extends to Pastor Lowe, his wife and family as well.

'For 42 years, New Life has taught and preached a Cross-driven message of repentance, forgiveness and restoration; a ministry of reconciliation which has been both led and modeled by Pastors John and Debbie Lowe.

'As healing occurs in their hearts, their marriage and family, we are committed to demonstrating the same support, encouragement, counsel and forgiveness that has come to define the collective heart and ministry of this body.'
I watched a video, I am not a reporter for The Daily Mail. I wrote 44 words about a 20-something-minute video, not a full article. I said "after a few questions" to cover the one minute or so of the long video that you are so focused on. No, I didn't in my 44 words elaborate on details such as how horrifically upset she was, how spiteful he sounded, or how angry some of the questioners sounded. Again, it was a few lead in words and posting the video for all to see.

I focused on the parts that were important to ME which is that poor woman. And, everything I said in my 2 sentences did happen. You seem to be focused on defending the church, the flock and somewhat the pastor by bolding his resignation. You can do that if you want. But, to claim your side is "what happened" is disingenuous crap. A lot happened in that video that I didn't cover in a few words as a full summary was obviously not my intention. What happened is in the video that I posted. The fact that you care about one small aspect is something for you to write, not to try to bully me about.
 

RxCowboy

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#58
I watched a video, I am not a reporter for The Daily Mail. I wrote 44 words about a 20-something-minute video, not a full article. I said "after a few questions" to cover the one minute or so of the long video that you are so focused on. No, I didn't in my 44 words elaborate on details such as how horrifically upset she was, how spiteful he sounded, or how angry some of the questioners sounded. Again, it was a few lead in words and posting the video for all to see.

I focused on the parts that were important to ME which is that poor woman. And, everything I said in my 2 sentences did happen. You seem to be focused on defending the church, the flock and somewhat the pastor by bolding his resignation. You can do that if you want. But, to claim your side is "what happened" is disingenuous crap. A lot happened in that video that I didn't cover in a few words as a full summary was obviously not my intention. What happened is in the video that I posted. The fact that you care about one small aspect is something for you to write, not to try to bully me about.
I am not claiming my side is "what happened". I gave you the observations of a disinterested third party who reported what happened without bias. Those observations without bias do not line up with what you posted. No one questioned her. The angry questions were for him. I am not defending anyone or anything and had I been in that congregation I would have been one of the people surrounding the woman and her husband at the end. What is disingenuous crap is you trying to make what happened into something different than what happened.

As a whole, the SBC (and their cousins, the Assemblies of God) have problems with the power given to their ministers. Their gospels are guilt, shame, and control based and I will never attend another SBC or AG church.
 
May 4, 2011
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#59
How about sharing what actually happened?

From the Daily Mail:
As the couple left the stage, the pastor then faced angry calls from the congregation.

'If you did it you need to admit it!' said one angry church-goer.

Another yelled: 'We need to hear from our pastor!' A third then cried out: 'Give him the microphone!'

Lowe returned to the stage.

At first he said: 'I told you I committed adultery and that it went on far too long.'

A member of the congregation then shouted out: 'You didn't tell us she was 16!'

He then relented: 'It was wrong. I can't make it right. I can't make it better. That's just the way it is.

'It's not all true but it did happen, yes.' (Rx: still trying to minimize, disgusting)

Because the legal age of consent in Indiana is 16, Lowe is not likely to face criminal charges for the relationship.

He has stepped down from the church and has been scrubbed from its website.

In a statement, the church said: 'This long-held secret first came to light when a woman in the church came forward and disclosed the relationship to various people within the church.

'When confronted by others in church leadership concerning that report, Pastor Lowe confessed privately that the adultery did, in fact, occur.

'In anticipation of Pastor Lowe’s public confession during our church service, the woman in question and her family were invited to be present.

'She did attend and, together with her husband, also addressed the congregation, indicating that improper sexual conduct first occurred when she was 16 years of age and continued into her twenties. She tearfully described living with deep shame and pain over the ensuing years.

'In the wake of what has now been revealed, we are hurting and broken for a woman who has lovingly attended and served in the church for many years, as well as for her husband and family.

'It is our deepest prayer and commitment to love, support, encourage and help her through a process of healing in any way in which we are able.

'Our brokenness extends to Pastor Lowe, his wife and family as well.

'For 42 years, New Life has taught and preached a Cross-driven message of repentance, forgiveness and restoration; a ministry of reconciliation which has been both led and modeled by Pastors John and Debbie Lowe.

'As healing occurs in their hearts, their marriage and family, we are committed to demonstrating the same support, encouragement, counsel and forgiveness that has come to define the collective heart and ministry of this body.'
Yeah, it's those last paragraphs that get me. He still didn't fully confess. He tried to sidestep and minimize the horror of what he did and what he apparently let others do (facebook story you posted and the story the victim references about other girls being abused by another pastor only to send that pastor to another church). Even under most church doctrines, they have no obligation to promote healing in his family since he's not willing to fully confess and repent. In fact, you could make the argument that he's the kind of person Paul refers to saying "with such a man do not even eat"

The fact that she walked out of the church mostly alone and he was encircled in prayer is just gross.
 
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steross

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#60
I am not claiming my side is "what happened". I gave you the observations of a disinterested third party who reported what happened without bias. Those observations without bias do not line up with what you posted. No one questioned her. The angry questions were for him. I am not defending anyone or anything and had I been in that congregation I would have been one of the people surrounding the woman and her husband at the end. What is disingenuous crap is you trying to make what happened into something different than what happened.

As a whole, the SBC (and their cousins, the Assemblies of God) have problems with the power given to their ministers. Their gospels are guilt, shame, and control based and I will never attend another SBC or AG church.
I never said the questions were for her. I just wrote "a few questions." I just wrote two sentences. Quit being absurd and trying to grade my 44 words like it is a dissertation. You found a foreign newspaper that gave more detail than my two sentences in a full article with multiple paragraphs. Good for you.

Again, I wrote what made an impression on me in a two-sentence summary of a very long video. In no way did I claim that those 44 words were a treatise covering all aspects. I also didn't mention her caring husband. Someone else could come and claim that isn't telling the accurate story. You have a different opinion of what should have gone in a two-sentence summary. You have IN NO WAY shown that anything I wrote did not happen. You have merely added other things. But, you have shown that you can still be a petty, irritating person on a message board. A normal person would have written "I also watched the video and I saw people angrily questioning him........" and I would have had no issue with that. Add opinions, it is a message board after all. But, instead, you are wanting what you felt is important to have enough importance to me to put it in my very brief two sentences. Well, sorry, that isn't for you to decide even if you can't stand the thought that other's people's perspectives are just as important as yours.