Southern Baptists

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Binman4OSU

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#63
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
That never says they should be seperate. What am I missing here?

The Constitution says that the Govt can not
stop a church from forming
Practice freely
Stop their speech, press or assembly
or file a complaint to the Govt or seek assistance from the Govt without fear of punishment or reprisals
 

Cimarron

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#65
That never says they should be seperate. What am I missing here?

The Constitution says that the Govt can not
stop a church from forming
Practice freely
Stop their speech, press or assembly
or file a complaint to the Govt or seek assistance from the Govt without fear of punishment or reprisals
You didn't miss anything. Well, except why I posted what I did :)
 

RxCowboy

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#68
My point is, there are plenty of KJV-only people who have legitimate reasoning for it rather than the crazy beliefs of the more vocal ones.
Thus my use of the word "some". I use multiple versions in my personal study including the KJV. Some day I would like to learn biblical Greek and Hebrew so that I could study the older monographs directly.
 
#70
Why is it we are so quick to judge the Govt for not respecting the seperation of Church and State, but we rarely judge our Church's for not respecting the seperation of Church and State?
The main reason is because the Government explicitly promised to do so, while most religions have not (depending on the religion and interpretation, Give unto Ceaser and whatnot).

The Constitution is only intended to prohibit the Govt from stopping a religion from being established and prohibiting any religions free exercise in the country

In no way does the Constitution say the Church and State should be seperate
How do you propose to bring the Church into the State without establishing a Church via the State?

As for my opinion on Southern Baptists. I'm not a big fan of the organization, but I'm not a big fan of the American Evangelical Protestant movement as a whole. I feel like it throws out a lot of important biblical context, but I am not particularly educated in Apologetics, so I wouldn't make a great argument out of it.
 

RxCowboy

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#71
The main reason is because the Government explicitly promised to do so
Promised? You've got to be kidding. Promised? Government promises aren't worth spit. The government is bound by the Constitution.


while most religions have not (depending on the religion and interpretation, Give unto Ceaser and whatnot).
What?

How do you propose to bring the Church into the State without establishing a Church via the State?
Who has proposed that?

I feel like it throws out a lot of important biblical context, but I am not particularly educated in Apologetics, so I wouldn't make a great argument out of it.
So you judge them based on something you know little about. Isn't that pretty much the definition of prejudice?
 
#72
Promised? You've got to be kidding. Promised? Government promises aren't worth spit. The government is bound by the Constitution.

The Constitution is a promise, the government is, sadly, perfectly capable of breaking it. I don't think it is unreasonable to call it a promise.

What?

Mark 12:17 "Then Jesus said to them,'Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's.' And they were amazed at him" New International Version

Who has proposed that?

Apparently Binman40, unless I misunderstood him.

So you judge them based on something you know little about. Isn't that pretty much the definition of prejudice?
I have reasons, I am not just highly versed in my argumentation. I don't believe that a literal translation of the Bible is sensible, and I don't think that any religion that excludes Catholics as being saved is particularly reasonable either. In general, I don't buy into the exclusivity of salvation.
 
#74
Good lord, hokey, law is NOT a promise. That is like a five year old's view of the Constitution.

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Maybe with a 5 year old's view of a promise. I don't know of a better word to describe what the Constitution effectively is for our government, or at least the Bill of Rights. Maybe an agreement, you could call it a code, except that doesn't work as a verb.It is a promise with very serious implications if it is broken, but because the Constitution provides for no course of action if it breaks its word (The entire government, all the branches), we can only take it as a promise. (suggestions for what to do if the promise is broken can be found in the Declaration of Independence)
 

Binman4OSU

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#75
Maybe with a 5 year old's view of a promise. I don't know of a better word to describe what the Constitution effectively is for our government, or at least the Bill of Rights. Maybe an agreement, you could call it a code, except that doesn't work as a verb.It is a promise with very serious implications if it is broken, but because the Constitution provides for no course of action if it breaks its word (The entire government, all the branches), we can only take it as a promise. (suggestions for what to do if the promise is broken can be found in the Declaration of Independence)
The word constitution is actually defined as

The fundamental law, written or unwritten, that establishes the character of a government by defining the basic principles to which a society must conform, by describing the organization of the government and regulation, distribution and limitations on the functions of different government departmens and by prescribing the extent and manner of the exercise of its sovereign powers

Constitutions are not an American invention. They were invented by the ancient Greeks who had over 150 constiutions that created the frame work of their Government and laws on which their society was built.

They were widely used in Europe for centuries and the US Constitution was actually based on the Greek models
 
#76
The word constitution is actually defined as

The fundamental law, written or unwritten, that establishes the character of a government by defining the basic principles to which a society must conform, by describing the organization of the government and regulation, distribution and limitations on the functions of different government departmens and by prescribing the extent and manner of the exercise of its sovereign powers

Constitutions are not an American invention. They were invented by the ancient Greeks who had over 150 constiutions that created the frame work of their Government and laws on which their society was built.

They were widely used in Europe for centuries and the US Constitution was actually based on the Greek models
I was preferably looking for a one word descriptor, something that would fit the phrase,"The government _________ that it wouldn't do that," or similar.
 

Binman4OSU

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#77
The phrase your looking for has already been said...just in a different manner

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Notice it didn't start We the Government
 

Cimarron

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#79
The phrase your looking for has already been said...just in a different manner



Notice it didn't start We the Government
That seems to be a fundamental difference?

While some see things as "We the people" others see it as "We the government"
 

Binman4OSU

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#80
That seems to be a fundamental difference?

While some see things as "We the people" others see it as "We the government"
If you replaced We the People with We the Government in the constitution......the society we live in today would actually be easier to accept

We the Government would actually support the entitlement that goes on