Spencer Sanders = Tony Lindsey

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Nov 14, 2010
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#41
We all make comments on what the coach should or shouldn't have done, knowing that he really has infinitely more knowledge of the game than we do. If you could only judge the head coach when you have a greater or equal grasp of the game, this would be a pretty quiet message board. But I get the feeling you really do think you have a superior knowledge of the game than Gundy.

If you were a Big 12 head coach, where would you fall in your own ranking? Where would you rank Gundy? He usually comes in around 4th on the lists I've seen.
I think the direction Gundy has taken our offense isn't good.
I think the way that he's using Spencer Sanders isn't good.
I think the fact that Sander's this year and Cornelius last year are catching the grief for it isn't good.
I think the fact that Gundy is hiring puppets for coordinators and forcing them to run his offense and now his defense isn't good.
I think forcing Spencer Sanders to run his offense instead of tailoring it around his skills isn't good. It's lazy and unimaginative and it's going to cause us to toil around in mediocrity.
I think that Gundy has hired a bunch of "yes men" and now he has control over everthing and that isn't good.

Now...
Instead of just making those statements and just simply bitching about it I've provided reasoning for my position and have used examples.

Further....
I've given my ideas of what we should be doing and given examples of how it would help.

I think Gundy's ego and stubborness are hurting OSU and there needs to be a certain amount of change in our program.

You can take that however you want.
 
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Jostate

CPTNQUIRK called me a greenhorn
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#42
I think the direction Gundy has taken our offense isn't good.
I think the way that he's using Spencer Sanders isn't good.
I think the fact that Sander's this year and Cornelius last year are catching the grief for it isn't good.
I think the fact that Gundy is hiring puppets for coordinators and forcing them to run his offense and now his defense isn't good.
I think forcing Spencer Sanders to run his offense instead of tailoring it around his skills isn't good. It's lazy and unimaginative and it's going to cause us to toil around in mediocrity.
I think that Gundy has hired a bunch of "yes men" and now he has control over everthing and that isn't good.

Now...
Instead of just making those statements I've provided reasoning for my position using examples.

Further....
I've given my ideas of what we should be doing and given examples of how it would help.

You can take that however you want.
Fair enough. I think you have a pretty good understanding of the game, and I agree with some of your points. I don't intend to attack the messenger. I just don't buy some of your insider info on Gundy's motives and efforts. It's borderline conspiracy theory.
 
Nov 14, 2010
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#43
Fair enough. I think you have a pretty good understanding of the game, and I agree with some of your points. I don't intend to attack the messenger. I just don't buy some of your insider info on Gundy's motives and efforts. It's borderline conspiracy theory.
I understand that my assertions are hard to believe about Gundy. That's partly why I've gone to such detail to explain them and give real examples of it happening.

Now that you've been made aware of what's happening, you'll start seeing it for yourself.
 
Jul 9, 2011
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#44
I think the direction Gundy has taken our offense isn't good.
I think the way that he's using Spencer Sanders isn't good.
I think the fact that Sander's this year and Cornelius last year are catching the grief for it isn't good.
I think the fact that Gundy is hiring puppets for coordinators and forcing them to run his offense and now his defense isn't good.
I think forcing Spencer Sanders to run his offense instead of tailoring it around his skills isn't good. It's lazy and unimaginative and it's going to cause us to toil around in mediocrity.
I think that Gundy has hired a bunch of "yes men" and now he has control over everthing and that isn't good.

Now...
Instead of just making those statements I've provided reasoning for my position using examples.

Further....
I've given my ideas of what we should be doing and given examples of how it would help.

You can take that however you want.
Right now our offense is nationally ranked #9 statistically. We would be even higher if we were not breaking in a new QB - and he is getting better game by game. He is on the same basic trajectory as Mason Rudolph the first year he played. As he becomes more of a passing threat and we force defenders out of the box the run game will open up more. Also as he gets more experience I can see more of a Zac Robinson offense developing, but he's not ready for that yet - we are staying pretty basic so far. I think next year he could be amazing. My biggest concern is he gets hurt running the ball.

Given all that I'm pretty happy with the offense.

I really don't think MG gets that involved in the defense, but he is ultimately responsible.
 
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Nov 14, 2010
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#45
Right now our offense is nationally ranked #9 statistically. We would be even higher if we were not breaking in a new QB - and he is getting better game by game. He is on the same basic trajectory as Mason Rudolph the first year he played. As he becomes more of a passing threat and we force defenders out of the box the run game will open up more. Also as he gets more experience I can see more of a Zac Robinson offense developing, but he's not ready for that yet - we are staying pretty basic so far. I think next year he could be amazing. My biggest concern is he gets hurt running the ball.

Given all that I'm pretty happy with the offense.

I really don't think MG gets that involved in the defense.
.
Gundy hired a 4-2-5 on steroids coach, and now we're running an odd stack because that's the defense Gundy wants to run.

He's forcing Knowles to run the defense he wants instead of the defense Knowles brought with him.

Honestly, I wish we were running a 3-4 and I've explained why.

I think Chuba Hubbard is bailing the offense out.
We are 9th in total yards because we have the nations leading rusher, and I think he does a lot of that on his own.
We are 55th in passing offense and 17th in scoring with the best back in the country and possibly the best receiver.

If Hubbard and Wallace leave after this year, next years offense will be interesting to watch.
 
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RxCowboy

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#46
The old "no matter what you say I win" strategy! Well played!

I see Sanders doing things he ought not to do. They are instinctual, they happen when he is pressed or is pressing, like locking on to the primary receiver and forcing balls into spaces where there is no window, running with the ball and holding it like a loaf of bread, holding on to the ball too long before getting rid of it or taking off running. This was not so evident in the first 3 games against lesser competition. In conference play it has produced turnovers. Coaching can fix these things, play calling cannot. But the coaching is going to take time and isn't likely to happen with the course of the season. I think we'll see improvement next year.

Btw, you excoriated the coaches for simplifying the play calling for Sanders, and then said the play calling needs to be simplified for him. You can't have it both ways.

Your move Vizzini. Which drink contains the iocaine powder?
It's called having a stance and having real evidence to support it, and providing it in numerous different examples and explaining it all.

If you disagree with any of the breakdowns I've given with the examples I've used, then lets get on the grease board and hash it out.

If you'd like to break down some instances in games to support your assertions and want to have a back and forth on it, let's do it.

You're making blanket statements while providing 0 evidence, then being sarcastic with someone who has.

I've explained all this and you haven't

Go back and read what I think the coaches should be doing schematically by taking the plays we're good at and adding prongs. Go back and read what I've described what we are doing. It's all there and It's very detailed. You have to try very hard to misrepresent any on it.

I've stated what I think we're doing wrong and how to correct it and given examples of both.

You can keep doubling down on sarcasm to deflect the fact that you're not going back and forth on any of my points, but I'd rather actually have a back and forth discussion about the content that has been provided.
Real evidence is all the turnovers, bro. It's pretty easy to see him forcing balls and holding it like a loaf of bread. But keep throwing the same bullspit against the wall, maybe some will stick.

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RutherfordFan

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#47
Still believe Sanders is going to be a Super star next year. I'm hoping next couple games the game starts to slow down but for Most QBs that would be next year. I think he's improving. Give him time. He has all the tools to be great. Iowa State and TCU are the best 2 defenses we will face all year. Kstate is a solid defense actually.

Spencer gonna be a star! that's the camp I'm still in. Has a bigtime arm, just doesn't see the field well yet. It's moving too fast for him and he sometimes throws a bit late.
 
Nov 14, 2010
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#48
Real evidence is all the turnovers, bro. It's pretty easy to see him forcing balls and holding it like a loaf of bread. But keep throwing the same bullspit against the wall, maybe some will stick.

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Circular

I've explained all that about the options he's given and how they've led to the turnovers etc.... It's all there

You've now tripled down on the sarcasm.
 

RxCowboy

Has no Rx for his orange obsession.
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#49
Right now our offense is nationally ranked #9 statistically. We would be even higher if we were not breaking in a new QB - and he is getting better game by game. He is on the same basic trajectory as Mason Rudolph the first year he played. As he becomes more of a passing threat and we force defenders out of the box the run game will open up more. Also as he gets more experience I can see more of a Zac Robinson offense developing, but he's not ready for that yet - we are staying pretty basic so far. I think next year he could be amazing. My biggest concern is he gets hurt running the ball.

Given all that I'm pretty happy with the offense.

I really don't think MG gets that involved in the defense.
.
Gundy hired a 4-2-5 on steroids coach, and now we're running an odd stack because that's the defense Gundy wants to run.

He's forcing Knowles to run the defense he wants instead of the defense Knowles brought with him.

Honestly, I wish we were running a 3-4 and I've explained why.

I think Chuba Hubbard is bailing the offense out.
We are 9th in total yards because we have the nations leading rusher, and I think he does a lot of that on his own.
We are 55th in passing offense and 17th in scoring with the best back in the country and possibly the best receiver.

If Hubbard and Wallace leave after this year, next years offense will be interesting to watch.
How do you know "that's the defense Gundy wants to run?" Please be specific.

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kaboy42

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#50
Still believe Sanders is going to be a Super star next year. I'm hoping next couple games the game starts to slow down but for Most QBs that would be next year. I think he's improving. Give him time. He has all the tools to be great. Iowa State and TCU are the best 2 defenses we will face all year. Kstate is a solid defense actually.

Spencer gonna be a star! that's the camp I'm still in. Has a bigtime arm, just doesn't see the field well yet. It's moving too fast for him and he sometimes throws a bit late.
110% agree... only thing I might add is he's also late on the reads that "should" tell him to tuck it and run. In the early non-conf games he was doing better at these reads. Now that we are in conference games he's tended to throw late OR tuck way too late and the D has collapsed on him. He's missed some opportunities to pick up decent long yardage with just his legs.

BUT, he may also be being coached to NOT run.
 
Nov 14, 2010
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#51
How do you know "that's the defense Gundy wants to run?" Please be specific.

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1) Because he stated several times when hiring that he wanted a 30 front. Which was why many were surprised that he hired a 4-2-5 guy.
If you don't' believe that, go ask anyone that's close to that situation.
2) We ran a 4-2-5 last year, because that's the defense Knowles, the guy Gundy hired, brought with him. Now, in year 2, we've changed to the odd stack.
3) Gundy has said many, many times that the hardest defense for him to solve is rush 3 drop 8, and now, although he hired a 4-2-5 guy, we're running the odd stack.

Pretty simple equation and sourcing Gundy himself is pretty specific.
 
Nov 14, 2010
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#53
You are begging the question. How do you know that Knowles did make the decision himself? Please be specific.

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Circular again....
Go back and read about Gundy making statements about the 30 front etc...

If you want to think that it's a coincidence that Gundy wanted a 30 front, now all of the sudden we're running one, although Knowles brought the 4-2-5 with him and had success at Duke with it, then be my guest.

You're going to be making that decision in the face of the fact that Gleeson, his offensive coordinator, isn't running the same offense he brought with him either, which has been said so by Gundy.
 

RxCowboy

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#54
You are begging the question. How do you know that Knowles did make the decision himself? Please be specific.

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Circular again....
Go back and read about Gundy making statements about the 30 front etc...

If you want to think that it's a coincidence that Gundy wanted a 30 front, now all of the sudden we're running one, although Knowles brought the 4-2-5 with him and had success at Duke with it, then be my guest.

You're going to be making that decision in the face of the fact that Gleeson, his offensive coordinator, isn't running the same offense he brought with him either, which has been said so by Gundy.
I don't care what Gundy said, I want to know how you know DC Knowles' thought processes. Please be specific.

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Nov 14, 2010
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#56
I don't care what Gundy said, I want to know how you know DC Knowles' thought processes. Please be specific.

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Circles
I've already done all that.

If the head coach himself isn't good enough for you then that's your prerogative to think what you want.
 

RxCowboy

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#58
I don't care what Gundy said, I want to know how you know DC Knowles' thought processes. Please be specific.

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Circles
I've already done all that.

If the head coach himself isn't good enough for you then that's your prerogative to think what you want.
No, you haven't. What you've done is speculate and given reasons for your speculation. Then you stated that it's true because it's true, which is begging the question. Please explain exactly how you have read Knowles' mind. Be specific.

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Nov 14, 2010
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#59
No, you haven't. What you've done is speculate and given reasons for your speculation. Then you stated that it's true because it's true, which is begging the question. Please explain exactly how you have read Knowles' mind. Be specific.

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Again....
I've done all that, very thoroughly.

Go back and read

You're going in circles.