The last days of Roe?

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ramases2112

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#1
So far from the last few days of discussion, it seems all 6 conservative justices are in favor of the mississppi law and at least 4 of them willing to go much further and over rule roe and send it back to the states to decide. It seems that the future of Roe is going to come down to Amy. Fingers crossed we finally see the evil of wantan abortion and murder of the unborn may be coming to a close. Will be on the same level as giving freedom to slaves. Will hopefully allow the US to redeem themselves of this horrific practice.
 

UrbanCowboy1

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#2
I'm not clear on the Mississippi law specifics, but I found majority opinion bizarre. It would seem to essentially set up 'safe haven' states. I can't imagine that's a good way to go from a legal perspective.
 

Binman4OSU

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#3
~650K abortions occur in the US every single year.
If Roe is overturned, and abortions become illegal, the States are going to find themselves in a jam trying to care for a huge influx of babies left to the ward of the state as most states have a safe haven law where unwanted children can be dropped off and left with no consequences. It will create a TRUE welfare class of people raised 100% by the Govt. and a class that will grow continuously each and every year.

The entire Foster child system in the US at this time has ~400,000 kids in it. This will send these numbers skyrocketing as well as cost to taxpayers for 18 years for each child that enters the system.

If Roe V Wade is overturned, be ready to see a whole bunch of tax changes and hikes coming down the line....especially at the State Level, if the state you live in votes to ban abortions.
 

bleedinorange

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#4
~650K abortions occur in the US every single year.
If Roe is overturned, and abortions become illegal, the States are going to find themselves in a jam trying to care for a huge influx of babies left to the ward of the state as most states have a safe haven law where unwanted children can be dropped off and left with no consequences. It will create a TRUE welfare class of people raised 100% by the Govt. and a class that will grow continuously each and every year.

The entire Foster child system in the US at this time has ~400,000 kids in it. This will send these numbers skyrocketing as well as cost to taxpayers for 18 years for each child that enters the system.

If Roe V Wade is overturned, be ready to see a whole bunch of tax changes and hikes coming down the line....especially at the State Level, if the state you live in votes to ban abortions.
I don't believe if Roe is overturned it necessarily means the end of access to abortion. If I understand correctly (and I probably don't) the abortion question would kick back to the states to decide. A strict opinion of Roe applying the actual reading of Roe as a constitutional right to abortion could well render Roe moot. I understand zilch about the legal ramifications but I can see where a constitutional issue could be in question.
 
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Pokit N

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#5
~650K abortions occur in the US every single year.
If Roe is overturned, and abortions become illegal, the States are going to find themselves in a jam trying to care for a huge influx of babies left to the ward of the state as most states have a safe haven law where unwanted children can be dropped off and left with no consequences. It will create a TRUE welfare class of people raised 100% by the Govt. and a class that will grow continuously each and every year.

The entire Foster child system in the US at this time has ~400,000 kids in it. This will send these numbers skyrocketing as well as cost to taxpayers for 18 years for each child that enters the system.

If Roe V Wade is overturned, be ready to see a whole bunch of tax changes and hikes coming down the line....especially at the State Level, if the state you live in votes to ban abortions.
OK
 
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#6
I'm not clear on the Mississippi law specifics, but I found majority opinion bizarre. It would seem to essentially set up 'safe haven' states. I can't imagine that's a good way to go from a legal perspective.
If I understand correctly the MS case outlaws abortions after 15 weeks even in the cases involving incest and rape.

Interesting in that in 2019 93% of US abortions occurred at 13 weeks or less.

I wonder what the ruling on the MS case will actually mean. I don’t understand the MS law, or the grounds for appealing to SCOTUS. But can SCOTUS ruling here actually overturn RvW or simply let the MS law stand or fail? If it stands does that mean each State will have to enact increasingly more restrictive laws to test the limits of where the court draws the line bc 15 weeks still allows for 9/10 abortions statistically. Doesn’t seem to really accomplish what the anti abortion side has been trying to get to.
 
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#7
If I understand correctly the MS case outlaws abortions after 15 weeks even in the cases involving incest and rape.

Interesting in that in 2019 93% of US abortions occurred at 13 weeks or less.

I wonder what the ruling on the MS case will actually mean. I don’t understand the MS law, or the grounds for appealing to SCOTUS. But can SCOTUS ruling here actually overturn RvW or simply let the MS law stand or fail? If it stands does that mean each State will have to enact increasingly more restrictive laws to test the limits of where the court draws the line bc 15 weeks still allows for 9/10 abortions statistically. Doesn’t seem to really accomplish what the anti abortion side has been trying to get to.
We'll see what happens, but 5 justices seemed to indicate they question Roe altogether not just the viability line (the reason the 15 weeks thing likely made it to the court because viability is roughly 24 weeks). There's a very good chance that abortion gets kicked to legislatures in general, which I despised the reasoning for. One of the arguments was basically "we can't decide whether the fetuses or the mother's rights trump the other, so why not let states decide". No, if you think the fetus has rights like that, it's your job to make it illegal. You should get ready for miscarriages to be investigated and those medical records to be scrutinized, but own up to your job.
 
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#8
I though that the wingers are for less government intervention into our lives. That’s not what this is. It’s clearly more.
 

ramases2112

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#9
I though that the wingers are for less government intervention into our lives. That’s not what this is. It’s clearly more.
Nope it allows the states to decide. Gets the federal government out of states rights and allows states to decide if they wish to kill the unborn or not. Power to the people, born and unborn!
 

StillwaterTownie

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#10
~650K abortions occur in the US every single year.
If Roe is overturned, and abortions become illegal, the States are going to find themselves in a jam trying to care for a huge influx of babies left to the ward of the state as most states have a safe haven law where unwanted children can be dropped off and left with no consequences. It will create a TRUE welfare class of people raised 100% by the Govt. and a class that will grow continuously each and every year.

The entire Foster child system in the US at this time has ~400,000 kids in it. This will send these numbers skyrocketing as well as cost to taxpayers for 18 years for each child that enters the system.

If Roe V Wade is overturned, be ready to see a whole bunch of tax changes and hikes coming down the line....especially at the State Level, if the state you live in votes to ban abortions.
I disagree. Most women want abortion because their unwanted pregnancy occurred at the wrong time in their lives and can't see going through the entire 9 months of it. Where abortion is banned, they can just purchase drugs to induce abortion or use Plan B. If Republicans ban all access to such drugs, then they are setting themselves up to lose to Democrats in the elections. Why should women want to be forced to buy such drugs from illegal street drug pushers?

If abortion is banned in Red States, it will be interesting to see just how vengeful Republicans will be against women who violate the ban. Do they really want to charge women with murder and put them on trial who get abortions? If they do nothing against women who violate the abortion ban, then the ban will probably be allowed to stay. Furthermore, if Republicans do nothing, then we'll know making abortion a major political issue was really more about taking votes from Democrats than trying to save lives of unborn babies.

If Republicans really want to end abortion, then try to do it by ending unwanted pregnancies by promoting self-control and birth control. The problem needs to be solved by nipping it before it's in the bud. Meanwhile, the rate of abortion has been slowly going down, not up, so that should give Republicans some satisfaction.
 
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May 4, 2011
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#11
I disagree. Most women want an abortion because their unwanted pregnancy occurred at the wrong time in their lives and can't see going through the entire 9 months. Where abortion is banned, they can just purchase drugs to induce abortion or use Plan B. If Republicans ban all access to such drugs, then they are setting themselves up to lose to Democrats in the elections. Why should women want to be forced to buy such drugs from street drug pushers?

If abortion is banned in Red States, it will be interesting to see just how vengeful Republicans will be against women who violate the ban. Do they really want to charge women with murder and put them on trial who get abortions? If they do nothing against women who violate the abortion ban, then the ban will probably be allowed to stay. Furthermore, if Republicans do nothing, then we'll know making abortion a major political issue was really more about taking votes from Democrats than trying to save lives of unborn babies.

If Republicans want to end abortion, then do it by ending unwanted pregnancies by promoting self-control and birth control. The problem needs to be solved by nipping it before it's in the bud.
That's not to mention the investigations that will happen to women who have miscarriages or their doctors. Relatedly, cases of women dying because doctors were afraid to perform them are huge reasons why Ireland just rolled back its abortion ban. Unfortunately, these kinds of investigations are semi common in many Latin American countries with abortion bans (basically only Latin America and Africa have large swaths or entire countries that ban abortions, btw).
 
May 4, 2011
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#15
Please expand on this comparison, interested in the dots connected.
This is the logical consequence of full personhood beliefs. From a very black and white vantage (no pun intended), if life begins at conception and the embryo/fetus has full personhood, then abortion at any stage for any reason is murder and we have been depriving fetuses of their constitutional rights. Overturning abortion therefore results in a wave of recognizing the full rights of fetuses, at least from that perspective.

Personally, I think it's way more complicated than that and I don't buy the full personhood argument and pregnancy doesn't map onto other rights in any kind of real way (e.g., you can't give a fetus up for adoption). Not that what I think matters, but just trying to clarify that while I follow/have heard the "freedom of the unborn" logic repeatedly, I don't buy it.
 

ramases2112

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#16
Please expand on this comparison, interested in the dots connected.
Pretty simple really. Slaves were nothing but property to do with what their owners wished. They were dehumanized to objects through propaganda. They were continually described as less than human. Move that forward to todays great fight. The unborn are continually dehumanized to nothing but a "collection of cells". They are not human and can be eliminated, at any moment before birth, if the "mother" deems the collection of cells to be unwanted or a net negative to their life. Democrat propaganda continually reinforces this much in the same way the democrats of old did for their slave master constituents.
 

llcoolw

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#17
I believe that the only folks that should have a say in this matter should be women.
Jmho
I used to too. Then my boss told me one day out of the blue that his wife was getting one. I was a stunned kid so I couldn’t understand why. Just bad timing for her was the response but he was visibly upset. He wanted the baby really badly. It just came 2 years too early for their “plans”. Time went by and they had 2 children over the following years. Now they’re going to college but mom and dad didn’t survive the divorce. Such a hard a subject. Come back in 10 minutes and I’ll change my mind. Again.
 
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#18
~650K abortions occur in the US every single year.
If Roe is overturned, and abortions become illegal, the States are going to find themselves in a jam trying to care for a huge influx of babies left to the ward of the state as most states have a safe haven law where unwanted children can be dropped off and left with no consequences. It will create a TRUE welfare class of people raised 100% by the Govt. and a class that will grow continuously each and every year.

The entire Foster child system in the US at this time has ~400,000 kids in it. This will send these numbers skyrocketing as well as cost to taxpayers for 18 years for each child that enters the system.

If Roe V Wade is overturned, be ready to see a whole bunch of tax changes and hikes coming down the line....especially at the State Level, if the state you live in votes to ban abortions.
Given that I could be considered as just a random, average person for purposes of a statistical analysis, I have two cousins and children of two friends who beg to differ with the dire prospects you paint. Sorry you're more concerned with a "huge influx" of babies than you are their actual lives. By the way, let's see you express your concern over the "jam" and "huge influx of babies" left at the southern border because of Biden's no look policy that encourages child trafficking.
 

UrbanCowboy1

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#19
Pretty simple really. Slaves were nothing but property to do with what their owners wished. They were dehumanized to objects through propaganda. They were continually described as less than human. Move that forward to todays great fight. The unborn are continually dehumanized to nothing but a "collection of cells". They are not human and can be eliminated, at any moment before birth, if the "mother" deems the collection of cells to be unwanted or a net negative to their life. Democrat propaganda continually reinforces this much in the same way the democrats of old did for their slave master constituents.
The bolded part is absolutely untrue in both the legal sense and the vast majority of opinions both left and right.