This is what happens...

[gundysburner]

This is my 50th anniversary year of being a loyal, committed, insane, Cowboy fan.

Those familiar words above really hurt right now. I’ve heard them now every year for 50 years.


Two observational things I’ll add here about this discussion regarding Gundy:

#1. Colleges with winning traditions fire failing coaches quickly. See OU.

#2. Colleges with less than stellar winning traditions are usually locked and frozen into morbid non-decisive thought about what to do about a current disappointing coach. Afraid to decide they are about whether to stay or go. “Crap or get off the pot” is how we stated it back in the 1970’s.
Leadership is scared to make a decision. Until it’s too late.

OSU is in Category #2.

Ehh, we can beg to differ on #1, & there are numerous examples.

For starters, OU was mired in mediocrity, despite 3 different coaches over a 12 year span. Michigan anyone? Nebraska? Tennessee? A&M? Miami?

This is not to say that #2 has no merit, but there's plenty of evidence that a quick trigger can also result in years of looking for someone who can even replicate what the fired guy regularly accomplished.

 

[True Analyst]

Ehh, we can beg to differ on #1, & there are numerous examples.

For starters, OU was mired in mediocrity, despite 3 different coaches over a 12 year span. Michigan anyone? Nebraska? Tennessee? A&M? Miami?

This is not to say that #2 has no merit, but there's plenty of evidence that a quick trigger can also result in years of looking for someone who can even replicate what the fired guy regularly accomplished.

What? I don’t know what you are referring to.

#1. OU fired Gomer Jones quickly. He lasted only 1 or 2 years. 1965
#2. OU fired Schnellenberger after only 1 year. After 1995
#3. OU fired John Blake after only 3 years. AFter 1998

The only thing you might construe to present as a delay, is of course, our own current analyst for the Cowboy football program - GAry Gibbs. But Gary was the favored son and the OU program went down slowly. Gary didn’t coach that long. And After about 3 years of disappointment by Sooner standards 1992-1994, he was fired. (the tie with OSU in 1992 really got tge heat started on him. Gary lasted only 2 years after that 1992 season.

 

[TypicalGooner]

This is my 50th anniversary year of being a loyal, committed, insane, Cowboy fan.

Those familiar words above really hurt right now. I’ve heard them now every year for 50 years.


Two observational things I’ll add here about this discussion regarding Gundy:

#1. Colleges with winning traditions fire failing coaches quickly. See OU.

#2. Colleges with less than stellar winning traditions are usually locked and frozen into morbid non-decisive thought about what to do about a current disappointing coach. Afraid to decide they are about whether to stay or go. “Crap or get off the pot” is how we stated it back in the 1970’s.
Leadership is scared to make a decision. Until it’s too late.

OSU is in Category #2.

Ehh, we can beg to differ on #1, & there are numerous examples.

For starters, OU was mired in mediocrity, despite 3 different coaches over a 12 year span. Michigan anyone? Nebraska? Tennessee? A&M? Miami?

This is not to say that #2 has no merit, but there's plenty of evidence that a quick trigger can also result in years of looking for someone who can even replicate what the fired guy regularly accomplished.

OU never pinned their hat on mediocrity. You produce or you’re gone. There’s no sense waiting for a toad to turn into a prince. There’s talent out there to be had every single year.


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[gundysburner]

OU never pinned their hat on mediocrity. You produce or you’re gone. There’s no sense waiting for a toad to turn into a prince. There’s talent out there to be had every single year.


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What do you call '89-'99 & 4 coaches?

 

[gundysburner]

What? I don’t know what you are referring to.

#1. OU fired Gomer Jones quickly. He lasted only 1 or 2 years. 1965
#2. OU fired Schnellenberger after only 1 year. After 1995
#3. OU fired John Blake after only 3 years. AFter 1998

The only thing you might construe to present as a delay, is of course, our own current analyst for the Cowboy football program - GAry Gibbs. But Gary was the favored son and the OU program went down slowly. Gary didn’t coach that long. And After about 3 years of disappointment by Sooner standards 1992-1994, he was fired. (the tie with OSU in 1992 really got tge heat started on him. Gary lasted only 2 years after that 1992 season.

I'm aware of the history. You missed the point entirely.

 

[osumason]

Yeah, because a team full of 18 year olds.....that's not young!

Same excuse every...single...year. But hey, if you are happy finishing near the bottom of the league every year and missing the tournament because the coach is a "nice guy" then you will be fine.

 

[GumbyFromPokeyLand]

You're arguing with yourself now

You're giving your justification for putting none of that situation on Gundy.

So...
As I said....
If you want to believe that Gleason left OSU, and it has nothing to do with his Gundy than that's your prerogative.

Answering questions with questions is an attempt at a pivot.

That's because.....
You still haven't answered the question of, other than Dunn and Clements, which one of our assistants has been offered a better job than they have at OSU and turned it down?

You're just looking for (and making up) another reason to bash Gundy. You have no evidence, much less proof Gleeson left becaue he "disagreed" with Gundy. NONE. Gleeson accepted the OSU job with full knowledge of Gundy's scheme. Doesn't make sense he'd quit because he doesn't agree with it.

A guy leaves after one year to return from where he came from for a new opportunity and the same job at a P5 conference school. Every indication he wanted to go back east. He was offered an opportunity and took it. Not rocket science.

As for your question, I have no idea. And whether other assistants have had job offers
, what if they have? What if they haven't? What on earth does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

 

[Herecomesbullets]

You're just looking for (and making up) another reason to bash Gundy. You have no evidence, much less proof Gleeson left becaue he "disagreed" with Gundy. NONE. Gleeson accepted the OSU job with full knowledge of Gundy's scheme. Doesn't make sense he'd quit because he doesn't agree with it.

A guy leaves after one year to return from where he came from for a new opportunity and the same job at a P5 conference school. Every indication he wanted to go back east. He was offered an opportunity and took it. Not rocket science.

As for your question, I have no idea. And whether other assistants have had job offers
, what if they have? What if they haven't? What on earth does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

Like I said.....
If you want to believe that he left Chuba Hubbard, Tylan Wallace, the spotlight we were in this year, and the chance at a National Championship to go to Rutgers where none of that exists, and it has nothing to do with Gundy, then thats your prerogative.

I've said that like 3 times now.

Employee experience is a huge factor

You hire Mike Yurcich etc.... from D2 you have total control of him because you're his best if not only option at that good of a job.

If you have coaches and players that have no options to equal or better themselves somewhere else, it's much easier to be able to control them.

 

[GumbyFromPokeyLand]

Like I said.....
If you want to believe that he left Chuba Hubbard, Tylan Wallace, the spotlight we were in this year, and the chance at a National Championship to go to Rutgers where none of that exists, and it has nothing to do with Gundy, then thats your prerogative.

I've said that like 3 times now.

Employee experience is a huge factor

You hire Mike Yurcich etc.... from D2 you have total control of him because you're his best if not only option at that good of a job.

If you have coaches and players that have no options to equal or better themselves somewhere else, it's much easier to be able to control them.

Have you ever held a job? Bosses sometimes make suggestions to their employees.
Please give me your evidence that Gleeson left over a dispute or displeasure with Gundy. I think you're making things up.

I've wondered how far down this ridiculous path you'd go before I had to point out the obvious.
Gleeson had a one-year deal at OSU for $550k.
Gleeson got a 3-year deal at Rutgers for $2.565mm.

I kinda doubt Gundy and Holder were gonna give him that kind of deal. So, no, he didn't leave because he disagreed with Gundy.

 

[Herecomesbullets]

Have you ever held a job? Bosses sometimes make suggestions to their employees.
Please give me your evidence that Gleeson left over a dispute or displeasure with Gundy. I think you're making things up.

I've wondered how far down this ridiculous path you'd go before I had to point out the obvious.
Gleeson had a one-year deal at OSU for $550k.
Gleeson got a 3-year deal at Rutgers for $2.565mm.

I kinda doubt Gundy and Holder were gonna give him that kind of deal. So, no, he didn't leave because he disagreed with Gundy.

Dude...
This was my first quote about Gleeson
"Gleason is probably the only person to truly know this answer"

But.... for some reason you're going off on some rant about evidence as in proof.

You're arguing with yourself again because, as I showed I wasn't presenting anything as evidence as proof.

Evidence as far as connecting dots.... yes evidence as proof....no

But.... again
Like I said.....
If you want to believe that Gleason left Chuba Hubbard, Tylan Wallace, the spotlight we were in this year, and the chance at a National Championship to go to Rutgers where none of that exists, and it has nothing to do with Gundy, then thats your prerogative.

I've said that like 4 times now.

On the vice versa....If you want think that Gundy worked great with Gleason, thought Gleason was doing a great job, but wasn't going to match Rutgers to keep him, then, as with everything else, that's your prerogative as well.

Especially considering that Gundy himself has said that part of his consideration in hiring OC's was if he could keep them for a while because he was tired of having to replace his OC's every year.

 

[Herecomesbullets]

Here was Gundys exact quote about his philosophy on hiring offensive coordinators right before hiring Gleason

"We went and got (Yurcich) because I felt like if we had gone and gotten a name guy, in two years, he would’ve left again because that is what was happening to us,” Gundy told reporters. “We bring a guy in, we average 50 points a game and the guy leaves.

“I was tired of dealing with that"

 

[GumbyFromPokeyLand]

Dude...
This was my first quote about Gleeson
"Gleason is probably the only person to truly know this answer"

But.... for some reason you're going off on some rant about evidence as in proof.

You're arguing with yourself again because, as I showed I wasn't presenting anything as evidence as proof.

Evidence as far as connecting dots.... yes evidence as proof....no

But.... again
Like I said.....
If you want to believe that Gleason left Chuba Hubbard, Tylan Wallace, the spotlight we were in this year, and the chance at a National Championship to go to Rutgers where none of that exists, and it has nothing to do with Gundy, then thats your prerogative.

I've said that like 4 times now.

On the vice versa....If you want think that Gundy worked great with Gleason, thought Gleason was doing a great job, but wasn't going to match Rutgers to keep him, then, as with everything else, that's your prerogative as well.

Especially considering that Gundy himself has said that part of his consideration in hiring OC's was if he could keep them for a while because he was tired of having to replace his OC's every year.

You know as well as I, the entire point of your ridiculous original post was - Gleeson left because Gleeson (with an "ee") was not free to do what he wants and that one of Gundy's problems is he interfere with the assistant coaches performing their jobs.

Newsflash - no employee is free to do what he wants.
Newsflash 2 - Every boss has input for his employees
Newsflash 3 - Gundy (a much, much, much more experienced offensive coach) would be derelict in his duties if he didn't make suggestions or point out things he felt were important. it is after all his team, his offense. Surely Gleeson wasn't so arrogant that he couldn't accept input from his boss. Maybe you are, but not a young, relatively inexperienced coach.

Gleeson left for more pay and an area of the country (recruiting and environment) in which he was comfortable. There is no evidence he left in a disagreement with his boss. You and others just make things up in an effort to try to depict Gundy as a bumbling fool.

 

[GumbyFromPokeyLand]

Here was Gundys exact quote about his philosophy on hiring offensive coordinators right before hiring Gleason

"We went and got (Yurcich) because I felt like if we had gone and gotten a name guy, in two years, he would’ve left again because that is what was happening to us,” Gundy told reporters. “We bring a guy in, we average 50 points a game and the guy leaves.

“I was tired of dealing with that"

So effing what? Gleeson got an offer Gundy coudn't/wouldn't match which totally castrates whatever point you're trying to make.

 

[Herecomesbullets]

We were paying Mike Yurcich $800,000 a year

So...yes...if things were good between Gleason and Gundy, absolutely we would have matched Rutgers

 

[GumbyFromPokeyLand]

We were paying Mike Yurcich $800,000 a year

So...yes...if things were good between Gleason and Gundy, absolutely we would have matched Rutgers

Uh, no way was Gundy gonna pay a second-year, relatively inexperienced P5 OC more than $250k/yr more than his experienced P5 DC.

 

[Herecomesbullets]

Uh, no way was Gundy gonna pay a second-year, relatively inexperienced P5 OC more than $250k/yr more than his experienced P5 DC.

Okay.... Well...the year before we were paying our OC $800,000 a year with the exact same DC as precedent

And.....
Again....Gundy himself has stated that he was tired of dealing with having to hire new coaches

Like I said.....
If you want to think that happened despite Gundy and Gleason working great together then that's your prerogative.

So.... if Gundy wanted to keep Gleason he would have

Plain and simple

 

[Rob B.]

We were paying Mike Yurcich $800,000 a year

So...yes...if things were good between Gleason and Gundy, absolutely we would have matched Rutgers

Wrong again, by all accounts, Gleason was a raging a-hole to both players and coaches. He was asked to leave, but not because he wouldn't be Gundy's puppet.

 

[Herecomesbullets]

Wrong again, by all accounts, Gleason was a raging a-hole to both players and coaches. He was asked to leave, but not because he wouldn't be Gundy's puppet.

So you're saying that Gleason was a raging a-hole to both players and coaches but things were good between him and Gundy?

I'm not doubting your statements about Gleason, I'm thinking that, if that was the case, then there were going to be issues between him and Gundy.

Which goes to my point as to why we didn't keep him

And.....My contention is that things weren't good between Gundy and Gleason and thats why Gleason left and we didmt try and keep him.

It's more than feasible to hypothesize that Gleason became disgruntled by the amount of input/ interference from Gundy with the offense, then became an A-Hole about it.

 

[OSUinTX]

Gleeson accepted the OSU job with full knowledge of Gundy's scheme.

So answer me this. Both Yurcich and Gleeson were touted and sold to the team, fans and administration for their innovative, productive offenses. If there is no intention of them running what made them appealing, why not get the guy on the corner selling pencils

 

[GumbyFromPokeyLand]

Wrong again, by all accounts, Gleason was a raging a-hole to both players and coaches. He was asked to leave, but not because he wouldn't be Gundy's puppet.

So you're saying that Gleason was a raging a-hole to both players and coaches but things were good between him and Gundy?

I'm not doubting your statements about Gleason, I'm thinking that, if that was the case, then there were going to be issues between him and Gundy.

Which goes to my point as to why we didn't keep him

And.....My contention is that things weren't good between Gundy and Gleason and thats why Gleason left and we didmt try and keep him.

It's more than feasible to hypothesize that Gleason became disgruntled by the amount of input/ interference from Gundy with the offense, then became an A-Hole about it.

“More feasible to hypothesize Gleeson (2 “ee”s) became disgruntled by the amount of input/interference from Gundy....”

What’s your evidence there was any input or interference? Making stuff up again?

Here are facts and some addition press reports:


Gleeson grew up and went to school in New Jersey.
His wife is from New Jersey
His Kids went to and could go back to school in New Jersey
He got a 40% raise and 3-year contract to go back to New Jersey.

From the Berkshire Eagle:
Sean Gleeson is a Jersey guy through and through. That’s why the challenge of helping rebuild the Rutgers University football program was so enticing.
Gleeson, who played quarterback at Williams from 2003-06, grew up going to Rutgers games, and remembers when the Scarlet Knights were one of the better teams in the east. As the new offensive coordinator, he’ll now have a hand in getting the program back to those heights.
“Having grown up in New Jersey, everyone across the state has their own allegiances with pro teams. But one thing that does unify everyone in the state is that everyone has Rutgers,” Gleeson said. “It’s the lone big-time college football team.”

From the Atlantic City Press:
Sean Gleeson didn’t find many Bruce Springsteen fans in Oklahoma.
He did, however, burnish his reputation as one of college football’s most talented offensive coordinators.
Gleeson was hired in January as Rutgers University’s offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach. He was the offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach at Oklahoma State last season but grew up in Glen Ridge, Essex County. He taught and coached at Delbarton High School before moving on to Princeton University, where he was the offensive coordinator under head coach Bob Surace, who grew up in Millville and graduated from the high school there.
Gleeson might be Rutgers head coach Greg Schiano’s most high-profile hire. Gleeson said during a conference call Tuesday morning he signed his Rutgers contract at his Oklahoma home in January with a live version of Springsteen’s “Prove It All Night” blaring in background.


But keep up your ridiculous narrative about Gleeson’s reason for leaving, and Gundy’s “program wrecking input/interference” into his subordinates jobs.


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